Let me give you another argument to take a WR. The league has changed so much over the last ten years and swayed towards offensive minded football being dominant and the rules are all swayed towards the offense. Let me ask you all...how many elite CB's are there in the league that are thought of as truly "shut down" players? I can think of one...Jalen Ramsey. There are some other good corners, Marlon Humphrey, etc., but compare that with how many elite or true difference making WR's there are in the league. I just think corner play has been devalued to the point that you don't really need to spend a premium pick because they are all bound by the same restrictive rules. Give me a take the top off WR that turns this offense into a truly explosive unit and gives us depth in these multi WR sets KOC wants to run. I'll roll the dice on McCreary or someone like that in the second round to address corner.
I hear ya preaching bro---if Hunter and ZD Smith get after the op Qb you won't need shutdown CBs --better to add offensive ponies and let em run
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ medaille said:
I struggle with the idea of drafting a 3rd or
even 4th WR in the first who is probably going to contribute 400
yards a season the next couple of seasons when we have so much need elsewhere.
If you have access to a guy who is clearly heads and
shoulders above all the other talent available, sure you should take him, but
at that point you’re probably just pushing Thielen off the team in a year and
ending up with similar production. We’re
starting 2 OLBs that are coming off injury plagued seasons. How many of our secondary is starting caliber? How confident do we feel that scheme/coaching
is going to make the OLine less of a weakness?
I think everyone else assumes Smith Jr. is going to take the starting
spot and running with it. I’m less
confident on that.
Valid points. But the WRs I'm thinking of have the capacity for a lot more than 400 yards even as a rookie. I think Jefferson and Chase have changed the thinking on rookie WRs. (Remember, even Jefferson did not start from day 1. Neither did Moss.) And this is likely the end of the road for Thielen in Minnesota. And we are taking a QB in the first next draft.
I think our moves in FA have freed us up to take a WR at 12. We have needs, but are not desperate, at CB, IOL, and Edge. Why? Because we have signed FAs at CB, IOL, and Edge. Also, we still don't know what we have in Wyatt Davis (can he play Center?) and D. Robinson. If Hutch or Thibodeaux fall to 12, then sure, take them. But they won't. Realistically, if we lost Smith and Hunter, we are screwed anyway.
For me it is WR and CB or CB and WR in the first 2 rounds. If the guys you look are not there (Sauce, Stingley, Wilson, Olave, and Williams are all gone) did someone unexpectedly fall to 12 (Hamilton)? Otherwise try to trade back. After that, I'm fine with BPA.
But the WRs I'm thinking of have the capacity for a lot more than 400 yards even as a rookie - They may have the capacity, but are they going to get looks over JJ, Thielen, and Osborn? Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of good WR's in this draft, but they would likely be, at best, tied for 3rd WR option. Is that how you want to spend your first round pick?
It may play out long term. It may be more impactful if Thielen gets hurt again this year, but Patrick Peterson is here for one year again so CB makes the most sense to me. I do agree with WR in the 2nd round if a guy is there that they like
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Let me give you another argument to take a WR. The league has changed so much over the last ten years and swayed towards offensive minded football being dominant and the rules are all swayed towards the offense. Let me ask you all...how many elite CB's are there in the league that are thought of as truly "shut down" players? I can think of one...Jalen Ramsey. There are some other good corners, Marlon Humphrey, etc., but compare that with how many elite or true difference making WR's there are in the league. I just think corner play has been devalued to the point that you don't really need to spend a premium pick because they are all bound by the same restrictive rules. Give me a take the top off WR that turns this offense into a truly explosive unit and gives us depth in these multi WR sets KOC wants to run. I'll roll the dice on McCreary or someone like that in the second round to address corner.
Exactly. And this is reflected in the money they are getting. Looks like the only position getting paid more than WR is QB. That is not by accident. Until the NFL's rules change, I do not see this changing. Top flight rookie WRs can be productive from day 1. (Didn't Waddle just set the rookie record for most receptions?) And it is at least as likely that Thielen misses time this year as Hunter or Z. Smith. He is just at that age. Also, he is likely gone after this year but we will need to draft a QB in the first round next year. So now is the perfect time to get a WR in the first. There will still be some good CBs in the second, and maybe even the third, round.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Let me give you another argument to take a WR. The league has changed so much over the last ten years and swayed towards offensive minded football being dominant and the rules are all swayed towards the offense. Let me ask you all...how many elite CB's are there in the league that are thought of as truly "shut down" players? I can think of one...Jalen Ramsey. There are some other good corners, Marlon Humphrey, etc., but compare that with how many elite or true difference making WR's there are in the league. I just think corner play has been devalued to the point that you don't really need to spend a premium pick because they are all bound by the same restrictive rules. Give me a take the top off WR that turns this offense into a truly explosive unit and gives us depth in these multi WR sets KOC wants to run. I'll roll the dice on McCreary or someone like that in the second round to address corner.
Yeah, good point. Ramsey "shut down" JJ last season to the tune of 8 catches for 116 yards. Not sure I want a WR at #12, but I trust the front office to know way more than me. Something tells me the Vikes will do well this draft. Personally, I'd like to see them grab Davis in the 1st, but I admit I don't know much. I'd just like to see a dominant D again that shuts down the run, then gets after the QB on passing downs.
Quote: @HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Let me give you another argument to take a WR. The league has changed so much over the last ten years and swayed towards offensive minded football being dominant and the rules are all swayed towards the offense. Let me ask you all.. .how many elite CB's are there in the league that are thought of as truly "shut down" players? I can think of one...Jalen Ramsey. There are some other good corners, Marlon Humphrey, etc., but compare that with how many elite or true difference making WR's there are in the league. I just think corner play has been devalued to the point that you don't really need to spend a premium pick because they are all bound by the same restrictive rules. Give me a take the top off WR that turns this offense into a truly explosive unit and gives us depth in these multi WR sets KOC wants to run. I'll roll the dice on McCreary or someone like that in the second round to address corner.
Yeah, good point. Ramsey "shut down" JJ last season to the tune of 8 catches for 116 yards. Not sure I want a WR at #12, but I trust the front office to know way more than me. Something tells me the Vikes will do well this draft. Personally, I'd like to see them grab Davis in the 1st, but I admit I don't know much. I'd just like to see a dominant D again that shuts down the run, then gets after the QB on passing downs.
Yup, I can watch my second or third round corner watch a 7 yard out get completed right in front of him just as easily as I could watch my first round corner do the exact same thing. Corner play is no longer go out there and "stop them" it's go out there and try to "contain them" due to all the rule changes. Like you mentioned even Ramsey gets lit up in occasion now. The days of Lester Hayes are long since gone and this is an offensive dominant league now.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Let me give you another argument to take a WR. The league has changed so much over the last ten years and swayed towards offensive minded football being dominant and the rules are all swayed towards the offense. Let me ask you all.. .how many elite CB's are there in the league that are thought of as truly "shut down" players? I can think of one...Jalen Ramsey. There are some other good corners, Marlon Humphrey, etc., but compare that with how many elite or true difference making WR's there are in the league. I just think corner play has been devalued to the point that you don't really need to spend a premium pick because they are all bound by the same restrictive rules. Give me a take the top off WR that turns this offense into a truly explosive unit and gives us depth in these multi WR sets KOC wants to run. I'll roll the dice on McCreary or someone like that in the second round to address corner.
Yeah, good point. Ramsey "shut down" JJ last season to the tune of 8 catches for 116 yards. Not sure I want a WR at #12, but I trust the front office to know way more than me. Something tells me the Vikes will do well this draft. Personally, I'd like to see them grab Davis in the 1st, but I admit I don't know much. I'd just like to see a dominant D again that shuts down the run, then gets after the QB on passing downs.
Yup, I can watch my second or third round corner watch a 7 yard out get completed right in front of him just as easily as I could watch my first round corner do the exact same thing. Corner play is no longer go out there and "stop them" it's go out there and try to "contain them" due to all the rule changes. Like you mentioned even Ramsey gets lit up in occasion now. The days of Lester Hayes are long since gone and this is an offensive dominant league now.
I know you're not advocating this, but we cant just throw in the towel on D...
Track meets pack the stands and offensive sell tix, but KAM/KOC know they aint going to any promised land with a D in the 20's or worse in pts allowed.
I got no issue prioritizing improving that side of the ball this year.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Let me give you another argument to take a WR. The league has changed so much over the last ten years and swayed towards offensive minded football being dominant and the rules are all swayed towards the offense. Let me ask you all.. .how many elite CB's are there in the league that are thought of as truly "shut down" players? I can think of one...Jalen Ramsey. There are some other good corners, Marlon Humphrey, etc., but compare that with how many elite or true difference making WR's there are in the league. I just think corner play has been devalued to the point that you don't really need to spend a premium pick because they are all bound by the same restrictive rules. Give me a take the top off WR that turns this offense into a truly explosive unit and gives us depth in these multi WR sets KOC wants to run. I'll roll the dice on McCreary or someone like that in the second round to address corner.
Yeah, good point. Ramsey "shut down" JJ last season to the tune of 8 catches for 116 yards. Not sure I want a WR at #12, but I trust the front office to know way more than me. Something tells me the Vikes will do well this draft. Personally, I'd like to see them grab Davis in the 1st, but I admit I don't know much. I'd just like to see a dominant D again that shuts down the run, then gets after the QB on passing downs.
Yup, I can watch my second or third round corner watch a 7 yard out get completed right in front of him just as easily as I could watch my first round corner do the exact same thing. Corner play is no longer go out there and "stop them" it's go out there and try to "contain them" due to all the rule changes. Like you mentioned even Ramsey gets lit up in occasion now. The days of Lester Hayes are long since gone and this is an offensive dominant league now.
I know you're not advocating this, but we cant just throw in the towel on D...
Track meets pack the stands and offensive sell tix, but KAM/KOC know they aint going to any promised land with a D in the 20's or worse in pts allowed.
I got no issue prioritizing improving that side of the ball this year.
No I'm not advocating it and think the odds are still in favor of that pick being a defensive player, just saying that it's smart to adjust how you draft based on league trends and right now the rules are all geared towards the offensive side of the ball. If I can't get Sauce or Stingley then I'd switch up strategy, not panic and grad a corner just to grab a corner. I'd wait until the second or third round to address that position. It definitely makes sense to look hard at a WR depending on how the board falls to us. Like I said, it's going to be very interesting to see how the whiz kid handles his first draft
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ dadevike said:
@ medaille said:
I struggle with the idea of drafting a 3rd or
even 4th WR in the first who is probably going to contribute 400
yards a season the next couple of seasons when we have so much need elsewhere.
If you have access to a guy who is clearly heads and
shoulders above all the other talent available, sure you should take him, but
at that point you’re probably just pushing Thielen off the team in a year and
ending up with similar production. We’re
starting 2 OLBs that are coming off injury plagued seasons. How many of our secondary is starting caliber? How confident do we feel that scheme/coaching
is going to make the OLine less of a weakness?
I think everyone else assumes Smith Jr. is going to take the starting
spot and running with it. I’m less
confident on that.
Valid points. But the WRs I'm thinking of have the capacity for a lot more than 400 yards even as a rookie. I think Jefferson and Chase have changed the thinking on rookie WRs. (Remember, even Jefferson did not start from day 1. Neither did Moss.) And this is likely the end of the road for Thielen in Minnesota. And we are taking a QB in the first next draft.
I think our moves in FA have freed us up to take a WR at 12. We have needs, but are not desperate, at CB, IOL, and Edge. Why? Because we have signed FAs at CB, IOL, and Edge. Also, we still don't know what we have in Wyatt Davis (can he play Center?) and D. Robinson. If Hutch or Thibodeaux fall to 12, then sure, take them. But they won't. Realistically, if we lost Smith and Hunter, we are screwed anyway.
For me it is WR and CB or CB and WR in the first 2 rounds. If the guys you look are not there (Sauce, Stingley, Wilson, Olave, and Williams are all gone) did someone unexpectedly fall to 12 (Hamilton)? Otherwise try to trade back. After that, I'm fine with BPA.
But the WRs I'm thinking of have the capacity for a lot more than 400 yards even as a rookie - They may have the capacity, but are they going to get looks over JJ, Thielen, and Osborn? Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of good WR's in this draft, but they would likely be, at best, tied for 3rd WR option. Is that how you want to spend your first round pick?
It may play out long term. It may be more impactful if Thielen gets hurt again this year, but Patrick Peterson is here for one year again so CB makes the most sense to me. I do agree with WR in the 2nd round if a guy is there that they like
I can definitely get behind drafting a WR at #12, but I do think that ISJ will be the 3rd or 4th receiving option this season based on how Tyler Higbee has been used by the LAR.
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ dadevike said:
@ medaille said:
I struggle with the idea of drafting a 3rd or
even 4th WR in the first who is probably going to contribute 400
yards a season the next couple of seasons when we have so much need elsewhere.
If you have access to a guy who is clearly heads and
shoulders above all the other talent available, sure you should take him, but
at that point you’re probably just pushing Thielen off the team in a year and
ending up with similar production. We’re
starting 2 OLBs that are coming off injury plagued seasons. How many of our secondary is starting caliber? How confident do we feel that scheme/coaching
is going to make the OLine less of a weakness?
I think everyone else assumes Smith Jr. is going to take the starting
spot and running with it. I’m less
confident on that.
Valid points. But the WRs I'm thinking of have the capacity for a lot more than 400 yards even as a rookie. I think Jefferson and Chase have changed the thinking on rookie WRs. (Remember, even Jefferson did not start from day 1. Neither did Moss.) And this is likely the end of the road for Thielen in Minnesota. And we are taking a QB in the first next draft.
I think our moves in FA have freed us up to take a WR at 12. We have needs, but are not desperate, at CB, IOL, and Edge. Why? Because we have signed FAs at CB, IOL, and Edge. Also, we still don't know what we have in Wyatt Davis (can he play Center?) and D. Robinson. If Hutch or Thibodeaux fall to 12, then sure, take them. But they won't. Realistically, if we lost Smith and Hunter, we are screwed anyway.
For me it is WR and CB or CB and WR in the first 2 rounds. If the guys you look are not there (Sauce, Stingley, Wilson, Olave, and Williams are all gone) did someone unexpectedly fall to 12 (Hamilton)? Otherwise try to trade back. After that, I'm fine with BPA.
But the WRs I'm thinking of have the capacity for a lot more than 400 yards even as a rookie - They may have the capacity, but are they going to get looks over JJ, Thielen, and Osborn? Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of good WR's in this draft, but they would likely be, at best, tied for 3rd WR option. Is that how you want to spend your first round pick?
It may play out long term. It may be more impactful if Thielen gets hurt again this year, but Patrick Peterson is here for one year again so CB makes the most sense to me. I do agree with WR in the 2nd round if a guy is there that they like
I can definitely get behind drafting a WR at #12, but I do think that ISJ will be the 3rd or 4th receiving option this season based on how Tyler Higbee has been used by the LAR.
He certainly could be and that's my point. Long Term, it may work out quite well. Short Term, I dont know how much of an impact a WR would be this year whereas I think a CB would be a significant contributor this upcoming season. All depends on how the chips fall I suppose
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