New Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah in a statement: "High level quarterback play is a prerequisite to building a championship team, and we are confident Kirk will continue along that path."
Quote: @minny65 said:
Then there is this guy:
Current ContractTom Brady signed a 1 year, $25,000,000 contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus, $25,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $25,000,000. In 2022, Brady will earn a base salary of $8,925,000, a signing bonus of $15,000,000, a roster bonus of $1,470,588 and a incentive bonus of $1,875,000, while carrying a cap hit of $20,270,588 and a dead cap value of $15,000,000.
Sounds like an awful lot to invest in a QB born the year Smokey and the Bandit came out.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong.
Yeah. I mean I don’t reallt disagree with you but like I said they own the team, not us.
Let’s hope the new crew can elevate Kirk to the next level. If not then we’ll know it pretty quickly and we’ll likely be mortgaging the future for “a seat at the craps table” in 2023 (shoutout MB), rather than mortgaging it for a proven commodity this year like Wilson/Watson. It’s a risk, for sure.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong. Give me a young QB I can build around for the next decade, not an above average 35 year old that I'm continuously having to shell our big money for and figure out his contract. When you hit the organizational reset button like the Wilfs decided to do, that's the kind of thing you are opening themselves up for. Unfortunately for the Wilfs and all of us, we are going to get more mediocre results over the next couple years with no answer on a long term QB
Again, I agree.
But I really hope I am wrong and it wouldn't be the first time ask my wife!
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong. Give me a young QB I can build around for the next decade, not an above average 35 year old that I'm continuously having to shell our big money for and figure out his contract. When you hit the organizational reset button like the Wilfs decided to do, that's the kind of thing you are opening themselves up for. Unfortunately for the Wilfs and all of us, we are going to get more mediocre results over the next couple years with no answer on a long term QB
I don't think a single move is indicative of their path. See what happens next. If they basically "run it back" then I would ask the question, how much does a chance in FO and coaching staff really mean? But I don't think that will need to be asked. This FO will put their spin on the roster, Kirk is just going to be a part of that.
So with all this inflation, does this pay a living wage?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong. Give me a young QB I can build around for the next decade, not an above average 35 year old that I'm continuously having to shell our big money for and figure out his contract. When you hit the organizational reset button like the Wilfs decided to do, that's the kind of thing you are opening themselves up for. Unfortunately for the Wilfs and all of us, we are going to get more mediocre results over the next couple years with no answer on a long term QB
I don't think a single move is indicative of their path. See what happens next. If they basically "run it back" then I would ask the question, how much does a chance in FO and coaching staff really mean? But I don't think that will need to be asked. This FO will put their spin on the roster, Kirk is just going to be a part of that.
Committing themselve's to Cousins and his contract for the next two years certainly is indicative of their path now. They can spin it however they want but the smart money is on this team being average again next year with a rookie coaching staff installing new systems on both sides of the ball and a defense with holes everywhere. Say they go 7-10, or 8-9 next season (likely), that puts them going into the following season with Cousins once again entering the final year of his contract with a no trade clause in his back pocket. It also puts them out of the running to draft one of the elite prospects in 2023. This was the year to make a move, free up big cap money moving forward, and position ourselves to draft an elite QB prospect in 2023. None of that likely happens now.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong. Give me a young QB I can build around for the next decade, not an above average 35 year old that I'm continuously having to shell our big money for and figure out his contract. When you hit the organizational reset button like the Wilfs decided to do, that's the kind of thing you are opening themselves up for. Unfortunately for the Wilfs and all of us, we are going to get more mediocre results over the next couple years with no answer on a long term QB
I don't think a single move is indicative of their path. See what happens next. If they basically "run it back" then I would ask the question, how much does a chance in FO and coaching staff really mean? But I don't think that will need to be asked. This FO will put their spin on the roster, Kirk is just going to be a part of that.
Committing themselve's to Cousins and his contract for the next two years certainly is indicative of their path now. They can spin it however they want but the smart money is on this team being average again next year with a rookie coaching staff installing new systems on both sides of the ball and a defense with holes everywhere. Say they go 7-10, or 8-9 next season (likely), that puts them going into the following season with Cousins once again entering the final year of his contract with a no trade clause in his back pocket. It also puts them out of the running to draft one of the elite prospects in 2023. This was the year to make a move, free up big cap money moving forward, and position ourselves to draft an elite QB prospect in 2023. None of that likely happens now.
To be fair, with Kirk under contract they are setup to have $20-30M in cap space in 2023. But aside from that, if they moved on from Kirk was your ideal scenario we bottom out, tank, and hope to get a high enough draft pick for an elite QB next year?
If so, I think that still isn't out of the realm of possibility. The 1 year extension and NTC doesn't prevent Kirk from being traded next off-season, it just decreases the likelihood. The dead money is $18M (or so) vs. $10M this year. In a trade they would just need to find a scenario Kirk would be happy to waive the NTC for. Basically, a team who would be willing to extend him. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Where I think this goes from here is they still work to get younger and improve the O-line/pass rush / secondary. Then they kind of see where this season goes. To you point, it could be 7-10 or 8-9. But what if under a new coaching staff the offense is a top 5 unit and they go 11-6? The margin in the NFL is just so razor thin. Next off-season they also could sell their future draft picks to go get a QB as well. The 49ers just did it and it's worked out rather well. The Ravens, Chiefs, Texans, etc.. all took that path.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong. Give me a young QB I can build around for the next decade, not an above average 35 year old that I'm continuously having to shell our big money for and figure out his contract. When you hit the organizational reset button like the Wilfs decided to do, that's the kind of thing you are opening themselves up for. Unfortunately for the Wilfs and all of us, we are going to get more mediocre results over the next couple years with no answer on a long term QB
I don't think a single move is indicative of their path. See what happens next. If they basically "run it back" then I would ask the question, how much does a chance in FO and coaching staff really mean? But I don't think that will need to be asked. This FO will put their spin on the roster, Kirk is just going to be a part of that.
Committing themselve's to Cousins and his contract for the next two years certainly is indicative of their path now. They can spin it however they want but the smart money is on this team being average again next year with a rookie coaching staff installing new systems on both sides of the ball and a defense with holes everywhere. Say they go 7-10, or 8-9 next season (likely), that puts them going into the following season with Cousins once again entering the final year of his contract with a no trade clause in his back pocket. It also puts them out of the running to draft one of the elite prospects in 2023. This was the year to make a move, free up big cap money moving forward, and position ourselves to draft an elite QB prospect in 2023. None of that likely happens now.
To be fair, with Kirk under contract they are setup to have $20-30M in cap space in 2023. But aside from that, if they moved on from Kirk was your ideal scenario we bottom out, tank, and hope to get a high enough draft pick for an elite QB next year?
If so, I think that still isn't out of the realm of possibility. The 1 year extension and NTC doesn't prevent Kirk from being traded next off-season, it just decreases the likelihood. The dead money is $18M (or so) vs. $10M this year. In a trade they would just need to find a scenario Kirk would be happy to waive the NTC for. Basically, a team who would be willing to extend him. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Where I think this goes from here is they still work to get younger and improve the O-line/pass rush / secondary. Then they kind of see where this season goes. To you point, it could be 7-10 or 8-9. But what if under a new coaching staff the offense is a top 5 unit and they go 11-6? The margin in the NFL is just so razor thin. Next off-season they also could sell their future draft picks to go get a QB as well. The 49ers just did it and it's worked out rather well. The Ravens, Chiefs, Texans, etc.. all took that path.
I'd say the NTC along with him once again entering the final year of his contract makes trading him very, very difficult next offseason. Kirk's been very smart signing these shorter term contracts and forcing the Redskins and now the Vikings to scramble and adjust while he cashes in.
But yes I 100% believed moving on from Cousins money, freeing up the salary cap, and drafting an elite prospects in 2023 would have been the way to go. Now we are likely mediocre again next season, out of the elite QB running in 2023, and once again scrambling to figure out the Cousins contract situation as he once enters the final year of his contract. I don't agree with their strategy and think it keeps us mediocre over at least the next two seasons
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Soo we basically got Kirk for one more year with a reduced cap hit this year, more big money next year and we now no longer control his trade option, leaving us once again scrambling in two years to figure out our QB situation as Cousins turns 36 years old, hits free agency, and any trade value would be extremely dimimished anyways.
This is a win for Cousins and his agent, not for the Vikings. I hope O'Connell turns him into this bona-fide MVP Candidate that he thinks he can but I won't hold my breath. Oh and by the way, anybody holding out for a "stud" rookie to be drafted next year to groom can forget about it because the Vikings won't lose enough games to put us in contention to be drafting that high. This was the year and the time to make a move. Now we've essentially pigeon holed ourselves into a two year window to get it done with Cousins, a rookie coaching staff, and a defense that needs an overhaul with a new scheme being implemented. I think it's a poor strategy and will hold steadfast in that opinion until this organization proves me wrong.
This is a fair take but it was said weeks ago that the Wilfs don’t want a rebuild. We knew this and they own the team, not us. That doesn’t make you wrong and them right but it’s the reality.
The good part of this extension is it’s short, we gain stability at the position, and we get to see what Kirk can do with KOC. The bad part is we probably won’t stink this season so we aren’t getting a crack at the blue chip QBs in 2023 (story of the franchise) and we also have a very uphill battle to win the division this year.
If it’s true- as been reported- that KOC was adament about wanting Kirk, what can we do other than hope he knows what he’s doing.
Well the Wilfs are fools then if they think they can overhaul the entire front office, coaching staff, and not understand that rebuilding is probably the best way to move past mediocrity. They shitcanned Zim and Spielman because they were tired of being average. That's fair..but if they think tying themselves to Cousins for two more years for big money with a rookie coaching staff and a roster with holes the size of the Grand Canyon is the roght recipe for long term Super Bowl success...they are likely very, very wrong. Give me a young QB I can build around for the next decade, not an above average 35 year old that I'm continuously having to shell our big money for and figure out his contract. When you hit the organizational reset button like the Wilfs decided to do, that's the kind of thing you are opening themselves up for. Unfortunately for the Wilfs and all of us, we are going to get more mediocre results over the next couple years with no answer on a long term QB
I don't think a single move is indicative of their path. See what happens next. If they basically "run it back" then I would ask the question, how much does a chance in FO and coaching staff really mean? But I don't think that will need to be asked. This FO will put their spin on the roster, Kirk is just going to be a part of that.
Committing themselve's to Cousins and his contract for the next two years certainly is indicative of their path now. They can spin it however they want but the smart money is on this team being average again next year with a rookie coaching staff installing new systems on both sides of the ball and a defense with holes everywhere. Say they go 7-10, or 8-9 next season (likely), that puts them going into the following season with Cousins once again entering the final year of his contract with a no trade clause in his back pocket. It also puts them out of the running to draft one of the elite prospects in 2023. This was the year to make a move, free up big cap money moving forward, and position ourselves to draft an elite QB prospect in 2023. None of that likely happens now.
To be fair, with Kirk under contract they are setup to have $20-30M in cap space in 2023. But aside from that, if they moved on from Kirk was your ideal scenario we bottom out, tank, and hope to get a high enough draft pick for an elite QB next year?
If so, I think that still isn't out of the realm of possibility. The 1 year extension and NTC doesn't prevent Kirk from being traded next off-season, it just decreases the likelihood. The dead money is $18M (or so) vs. $10M this year. In a trade they would just need to find a scenario Kirk would be happy to waive the NTC for. Basically, a team who would be willing to extend him. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Where I think this goes from here is they still work to get younger and improve the O-line/pass rush / secondary. Then they kind of see where this season goes. To you point, it could be 7-10 or 8-9. But what if under a new coaching staff the offense is a top 5 unit and they go 11-6? The margin in the NFL is just so razor thin. Next off-season they also could sell their future draft picks to go get a QB as well. The 49ers just did it and it's worked out rather well. The Ravens, Chiefs, Texans, etc.. all took that path.
The more you explain, the worse I feel about this extension haha. Initially I was cool with it and I still am but intentionally or not, you’re painting a picture of the Vikings FO sighing and saying, “well, I guess we’re stuck with him a little longer.” Hopefully I’m reading in between the lines incorrectly because if that’s really the case then I think they should’ve just moved on.
The prospect of being in this exact same scenario next offseason, only now with Kirk having an NTC, is pretty painful. I deeply hope the extra cap space in 2022 was worth it and we do go 11-6, like you mentioned. I agree the diff between 11 wins and 7 is very slim. Now it just depends how we spend that extra money.
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