Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
Looking at the QB class, Kwesi has gone on record (trying to find it) that everyone thought the 2017 class was also viewed as poorly as this one. To be honest, I never gave Mahomes a second thought, but Watson was a 1st round lock. I don't see anyone close to these two guys.
Pickett is still my favorite in the class, but I view him as a Day 2 guy in terms of value, not where he'll go overall. Willis is raw as sushi, but the skills are undeniable.
Does Kwesi gamble on a QB this soon into his tenure? If either of these guy were in the 2023 class, they wouldn't crack the top 5. Maybe not top 7.
Follow me for more reading too much into someone's comments.
I also have my doubts that our defense gels very quickly and makes a lot of mistakes early in the season, so even with Cousins in a system that should benefit his style(maybe) i still think the D is going to be a weakness that gets exploited until they get the right pieces in place. If Kirk isn't in it for the team and the long haul, then what's the point, I just dont see the upside of giving him 1 more year.
Completely agree. We need a lot on defense and even more so with this scheme change and trying to fit the right personnel into those positions. Changes on both sides of the ball and a new coaching staff. Even if we keep Cousins our ceiling is probably realistically only 8 or 9 wins this season and we probably don't make the playoffs, so what's the point in keeping him? All it does is;
- Ties up our cap on an extension and hinders our ability to retain free agents and upgrade the roster
- Allows us to win enough games to keep us out of the top ten in 2023 where we might have a realistic shot at a blue chip QB prospect
- We invested a high draft pick on Mond and have no idea what we have in him. Was he just terrible or did Zimmer hold on to a grudge against Spielman and refuse to play him?
The points you’re all bringing up is why it’s darkly funny that half this board is convinced we’re 1-2 recovered fumbles away from a Super Bowl. It was the same story last year and the year before that. After 2017 season and sorta even after 2018 season I thought the Vikings had a team that could win it all. Unfortunately that’s been a while ago now. I’m glad the Vikings have overhauled the FO and coaching staff. Now do the roster.
No one has said anything remotely close to this, let alone half the board. That's complete bull shit.
Yeah, no shit. This team was so insanely bad on defense that it’s amazing we were in 85% of our games. The non-kirk haters (Myself included) are just simply stating that we were a FG and one defensive stop vs the Lions away from making the playoffs. The team wasnt good enough to do any damage in the playoffs but it provides hope knowing that next year we have a HC that doesnt hate every single offensive drafted player and is hopefully able to understand clock management.
Does the defense gel enough this offseason? Highly doubtful. I think Kwesi is smart as shit and I do think analytics can help improve the team. We have a lot of holes and have a lot of borderline awful contracts, but I think he makes the right decision and helps us improve.
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
Looking at the QB class, Kwesi has gone on record (trying to find it) that everyone thought the 2017 class was also viewed as poorly as this one. To be honest, I never gave Mahomes a second thought, but Watson was a 1st round lock. I don't see anyone close to these two guys.
Pickett is still my favorite in the class, but I view him as a Day 2 guy in terms of value, not where he'll go overall. Willis is raw as sushi, but the skills are undeniable.
Does Kwesi gamble on a QB this soon into his tenure? If either of these guy were in the 2023 class, they wouldn't crack the top 5. Maybe not top 7.
Follow me for more reading too much into someone's comments.
I also have my doubts that our defense gels very quickly and makes a lot of mistakes early in the season, so even with Cousins in a system that should benefit his style(maybe) i still think the D is going to be a weakness that gets exploited until they get the right pieces in place. If Kirk isn't in it for the team and the long haul, then what's the point, I just dont see the upside of giving him 1 more year.
Completely agree. We need a lot on defense and even more so with this scheme change and trying to fit the right personnel into those positions. Changes on both sides of the ball and a new coaching staff. Even if we keep Cousins our ceiling is probably realistically only 8 or 9 wins this season and we probably don't make the playoffs, so what's the point in keeping him? All it does is;
- Ties up our cap on an extension and hinders our ability to retain free agents and upgrade the roster
- Allows us to win enough games to keep us out of the top ten in 2023 where we might have a realistic shot at a blue chip QB prospect
- We invested a high draft pick on Mond and have no idea what we have in him. Was he just terrible or did Zimmer hold on to a grudge against Spielman and refuse to play him?
The points you’re all bringing up is why it’s darkly funny that half this board is convinced we’re 1-2 recovered fumbles away from a Super Bowl. It was the same story last year and the year before that. After 2017 season and sorta even after 2018 season I thought the Vikings had a team that could win it all. Unfortunately that’s been a while ago now. I’m glad the Vikings have overhauled the FO and coaching staff. Now do the roster.
No one has said anything remotely close to this, let alone half the board. That's complete bull shit.
Ehhhhh…. maybe half is an exageration so my bad, but there were people defending Zim until the day before he got axed. And there damn sure were a lot of people believing the hype this past offseason (LaSt YeAr WaS cOvId, ZiM wIlL fIx It!). FSUVike a longtime poster quit the board because the writing was on the wall and so many had their heads in the sand. Maybe not half so touche, but a vocal minority. And God bless em and all Vikings fans, but they were wrong.
I personally think the dreamers will be wrong again this year too, but I don’t begrudge them for it. I envy them. Just more than ready for this team to get serious and become a contender. Sorry if that’s offensive or condescending or anything else *shrug*.
Quote: ![[Image: 8iutbck6cc33.gif]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/8d/8iutbck6cc33.gif) @pattersaur said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
Looking at the QB class, Kwesi has gone on record (trying to find it) that everyone thought the 2017 class was also viewed as poorly as this one. To be honest, I never gave Mahomes a second thought, but Watson was a 1st round lock. I don't see anyone close to these two guys.
Pickett is still my favorite in the class, but I view him as a Day 2 guy in terms of value, not where he'll go overall. Willis is raw as sushi, but the skills are undeniable.
Does Kwesi gamble on a QB this soon into his tenure? If either of these guy were in the 2023 class, they wouldn't crack the top 5. Maybe not top 7.
Follow me for more reading too much into someone's comments.
I also have my doubts that our defense gels very quickly and makes a lot of mistakes early in the season, so even with Cousins in a system that should benefit his style(maybe) i still think the D is going to be a weakness that gets exploited until they get the right pieces in place. If Kirk isn't in it for the team and the long haul, then what's the point, I just dont see the upside of giving him 1 more year.
Completely agree. We need a lot on defense and even more so with this scheme change and trying to fit the right personnel into those positions. Changes on both sides of the ball and a new coaching staff. Even if we keep Cousins our ceiling is probably realistically only 8 or 9 wins this season and we probably don't make the playoffs, so what's the point in keeping him? All it does is;
- Ties up our cap on an extension and hinders our ability to retain free agents and upgrade the roster
- Allows us to win enough games to keep us out of the top ten in 2023 where we might have a realistic shot at a blue chip QB prospect
- We invested a high draft pick on Mond and have no idea what we have in him. Was he just terrible or did Zimmer hold on to a grudge against Spielman and refuse to play him?
The points you’re all bringing up is why it’s darkly funny that half this board is convinced we’re 1-2 recovered fumbles away from a Super Bowl. It was the same story last year and the year before that. After 2017 season and sorta even after 2018 season I thought the Vikings had a team that could win it all. Unfortunately that’s been a while ago now. I’m glad the Vikings have overhauled the FO and coaching staff. Now do the roster.
No one has said anything remotely close to this, let alone half the board. That's complete bull shit.
Ehhhhh…. maybe half is an exageration so my bad, but there were people defending Zim until the day before he got axed. And there damn sure were a lot of people believing the hype this past offseason (LaSt YeAr WaS cOvId, ZiM wIlL fIx It!). FSUVike a longtime poster quit the board because the writing was on the wall and so many had their heads in the sand. Maybe not half so touche, but a vocal minority. And God bless em and all Vikings fans, but they were wrong.
I personally think the dreamers will be wrong again this year too, but I don’t begrudge them for it. I envy them. Just more than ready for this team to get serious and become a contender. Sorry if that’s offensive or condescending or anything else *shrug*.
Which is it, going to the Super Bowl or defending Zim?
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
Looking at the QB class, Kwesi has gone on record (trying to find it) that everyone thought the 2017 class was also viewed as poorly as this one. To be honest, I never gave Mahomes a second thought, but Watson was a 1st round lock. I don't see anyone close to these two guys.
Pickett is still my favorite in the class, but I view him as a Day 2 guy in terms of value, not where he'll go overall. Willis is raw as sushi, but the skills are undeniable.
Does Kwesi gamble on a QB this soon into his tenure? If either of these guy were in the 2023 class, they wouldn't crack the top 5. Maybe not top 7.
Follow me for more reading too much into someone's comments.
I also have my doubts that our defense gels very quickly and makes a lot of mistakes early in the season, so even with Cousins in a system that should benefit his style(maybe) i still think the D is going to be a weakness that gets exploited until they get the right pieces in place. If Kirk isn't in it for the team and the long haul, then what's the point, I just dont see the upside of giving him 1 more year.
Completely agree. We need a lot on defense and even more so with this scheme change and trying to fit the right personnel into those positions. Changes on both sides of the ball and a new coaching staff. Even if we keep Cousins our ceiling is probably realistically only 8 or 9 wins this season and we probably don't make the playoffs, so what's the point in keeping him? All it does is;
- Ties up our cap on an extension and hinders our ability to retain free agents and upgrade the roster
- Allows us to win enough games to keep us out of the top ten in 2023 where we might have a realistic shot at a blue chip QB prospect
- We invested a high draft pick on Mond and have no idea what we have in him. Was he just terrible or did Zimmer hold on to a grudge against Spielman and refuse to play him?
The points you’re all bringing up is why it’s darkly funny that half this board is convinced we’re 1-2 recovered fumbles away from a Super Bowl. It was the same story last year and the year before that. After 2017 season and sorta even after 2018 season I thought the Vikings had a team that could win it all. Unfortunately that’s been a while ago now. I’m glad the Vikings have overhauled the FO and coaching staff. Now do the roster.
No one has said anything remotely close to this, let alone half the board. That's complete bull shit.
Ehhhhh…. maybe half is an exageration so my bad, but there were people defending Zim until the day before he got axed. And there damn sure were a lot of people believing the hype this past offseason (LaSt YeAr WaS cOvId, ZiM wIlL fIx It!). FSUVike a longtime poster quit the board because the writing was on the wall and so many had their heads in the sand. Maybe not half so touche, but a vocal minority. And God bless em and all Vikings fans, but they were wrong.
I personally think the dreamers will be wrong again this year too, but I don’t begrudge them for it. I envy them. Just more than ready for this team to get serious and become a contender. Sorry if that’s offensive or condescending or anything else *shrug*.
Which is it, going to the Super Bowl or defending Zim?
Haha dude calm down it ain’t that serious. There are plenty of fans who did both and/or one or the other. You were team Spiely and I kind of was too until he got whacked. We were wrong. That’s okay. If you think the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl next year or gonna win the NFC next year or gonna br a contender next year then awesome man that rules. I do not but none of us fans’ opinions count for much. All good.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
Looking at the QB class, Kwesi has gone on record (trying to find it) that everyone thought the 2017 class was also viewed as poorly as this one. To be honest, I never gave Mahomes a second thought, but Watson was a 1st round lock. I don't see anyone close to these two guys.
Pickett is still my favorite in the class, but I view him as a Day 2 guy in terms of value, not where he'll go overall. Willis is raw as sushi, but the skills are undeniable.
Does Kwesi gamble on a QB this soon into his tenure? If either of these guy were in the 2023 class, they wouldn't crack the top 5. Maybe not top 7.
Follow me for more reading too much into someone's comments.
I also have my doubts that our defense gels very quickly and makes a lot of mistakes early in the season, so even with Cousins in a system that should benefit his style(maybe) i still think the D is going to be a weakness that gets exploited until they get the right pieces in place. If Kirk isn't in it for the team and the long haul, then what's the point, I just dont see the upside of giving him 1 more year.
Completely agree. We need a lot on defense and even more so with this scheme change and trying to fit the right personnel into those positions. Changes on both sides of the ball and a new coaching staff. Even if we keep Cousins our ceiling is probably realistically only 8 or 9 wins this season and we probably don't make the playoffs, so what's the point in keeping him? All it does is;
- Ties up our cap on an extension and hinders our ability to retain free agents and upgrade the roster
- Allows us to win enough games to keep us out of the top ten in 2023 where we might have a realistic shot at a blue chip QB prospect
- We invested a high draft pick on Mond and have no idea what we have in him. Was he just terrible or did Zimmer hold on to a grudge against Spielman and refuse to play him?
The points you’re all bringing up is why it’s darkly funny that half this board is convinced we’re 1-2 recovered fumbles away from a Super Bowl. It was the same story last year and the year before that. After 2017 season and sorta even after 2018 season I thought the Vikings had a team that could win it all. Unfortunately that’s been a while ago now. I’m glad the Vikings have overhauled the FO and coaching staff. Now do the roster.
No one has said anything remotely close to this, let alone half the board. That's complete bull shit.
Ehhhhh…. maybe half is an exageration so my bad, but there were people defending Zim until the day before he got axed. And there damn sure were a lot of people believing the hype this past offseason (LaSt YeAr WaS cOvId, ZiM wIlL fIx It!). FSUVike a longtime poster quit the board because the writing was on the wall and so many had their heads in the sand. Maybe not half so touche, but a vocal minority. And God bless em and all Vikings fans, but they were wrong.
I personally think the dreamers will be wrong again this year too, but I don’t begrudge them for it. I envy them. Just more than ready for this team to get serious and become a contender. Sorry if that’s offensive or condescending or anything else *shrug*.
Which is it, going to the Super Bowl or defending Zim?
Haha dude calm down it ain’t that serious. There are plenty of fans who did both and/or one or the other. You were team Spiely and I kind of was too until he got whacked. We were wrong. That’s okay. If you think the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl next year or gonna win the NFC next year or gonna br a contender next year then awesome man that rules. I do not but none of us fans’ opinions count for much. All good.
So, if you decide on a topic and a position on said topic at some point, let me know.
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
Looking at the QB class, Kwesi has gone on record (trying to find it) that everyone thought the 2017 class was also viewed as poorly as this one. To be honest, I never gave Mahomes a second thought, but Watson was a 1st round lock. I don't see anyone close to these two guys.
Pickett is still my favorite in the class, but I view him as a Day 2 guy in terms of value, not where he'll go overall. Willis is raw as sushi, but the skills are undeniable.
Does Kwesi gamble on a QB this soon into his tenure? If either of these guy were in the 2023 class, they wouldn't crack the top 5. Maybe not top 7.
Follow me for more reading too much into someone's comments.
I also have my doubts that our defense gels very quickly and makes a lot of mistakes early in the season, so even with Cousins in a system that should benefit his style(maybe) i still think the D is going to be a weakness that gets exploited until they get the right pieces in place. If Kirk isn't in it for the team and the long haul, then what's the point, I just dont see the upside of giving him 1 more year.
Completely agree. We need a lot on defense and even more so with this scheme change and trying to fit the right personnel into those positions. Changes on both sides of the ball and a new coaching staff. Even if we keep Cousins our ceiling is probably realistically only 8 or 9 wins this season and we probably don't make the playoffs, so what's the point in keeping him? All it does is;
- Ties up our cap on an extension and hinders our ability to retain free agents and upgrade the roster
- Allows us to win enough games to keep us out of the top ten in 2023 where we might have a realistic shot at a blue chip QB prospect
- We invested a high draft pick on Mond and have no idea what we have in him. Was he just terrible or did Zimmer hold on to a grudge against Spielman and refuse to play him?
The points you’re all bringing up is why it’s darkly funny that half this board is convinced we’re 1-2 recovered fumbles away from a Super Bowl. It was the same story last year and the year before that. After 2017 season and sorta even after 2018 season I thought the Vikings had a team that could win it all. Unfortunately that’s been a while ago now. I’m glad the Vikings have overhauled the FO and coaching staff. Now do the roster.
No one has said anything remotely close to this, let alone half the board. That's complete bull shit.
Ehhhhh…. maybe half is an exageration so my bad, but there were people defending Zim until the day before he got axed. And there damn sure were a lot of people believing the hype this past offseason (LaSt YeAr WaS cOvId, ZiM wIlL fIx It!). FSUVike a longtime poster quit the board because the writing was on the wall and so many had their heads in the sand. Maybe not half so touche, but a vocal minority. And God bless em and all Vikings fans, but they were wrong.
I personally think the dreamers will be wrong again this year too, but I don’t begrudge them for it. I envy them. Just more than ready for this team to get serious and become a contender. Sorry if that’s offensive or condescending or anything else *shrug*.
Which is it, going to the Super Bowl or defending Zim?
Haha dude calm down it ain’t that serious. There are plenty of fans who did both and/or one or the other. You were team Spiely and I kind of was too until he got whacked. We were wrong. That’s okay. If you think the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl next year or gonna win the NFC next year or gonna br a contender next year then awesome man that rules. I do not but none of us fans’ opinions count for much. All good.
So, if you decide on a topic at some point, let me know.
Haha jeez. Ok. I wasn’t trying to change topics I was trying to illustrate that it’s okay to be wrong or to change an opinion over time. But if you want a topic I firmly believe in to debate here you go- The Vikings will not win a Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins as starting QB. React:
If the rumors are true regarding the conversations Kwesi and Cousin's agent have had on signing an extension, and he is seeking a $40 million per year average salary, I don't see how we can do that. Too many holes to fill and it really won't put us in any better cap situation. If we can't get a good trade deal and have to let him play out this year of his contract, wouldn't we save some money by franchise tagging him for 2023 while we sort out a replacement? Just a thought as I haven't seen anyone bring it up as an option. You know he will want a guaranteed deal as one of his conditions to sign an extension.
Quote: @TBro said:
If the rumors are true regarding the conversations Kwesi and Cousin's agent have had on signing an extension, and he is seeking a $40 million per year average salary, I don't see how we can do that. Too many holes to fill and it really won't put us in any better cap situation. If we can't get a good trade deal and have to let him play out this year of his contract, wouldn't we save some money by franchise tagging him for 2023 while we sort out a replacement? Just a thought as I haven't seen anyone bring it up as an option. You know he will want a guaranteed deal as one of his conditions to sign an extension.
I dont believe the tag is an option for Cousins, even so that would put his number for 23 at 42 mill, so no savings there. If he wants to make it about money then he needs to be moved now.
I would even say a first in 23 alone would be good enough based on what Geoff was predicting in return ( which i think is a bit light, but I will concede that he has better insight than my gut feelings ) he says a 2nd, well a first in 23 would equal a 2nd in 22 so why not?
This year just needs to be about player evaluation and getting the new staff and scheme established. As well as a new culture that should open the door for a lot of improvement just through communication and collaboration that sounds like it was missing under the previous system.
But hey, if they go a different route and Kirk can bring a lombardi to minny in 22... I will be cheering the whole time.
As god as my witness, I didn't want this to turn into another Cousins thread.
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