I think more than anything he’s attacking “the old boys system”. Nepotism is probably only part of that. Can he prove racism? I’m not sure under these circumstances, but it stands to reason that it has played a role in the NFL throughout it’s existence. The Rooney rule exists because it takes opportunities to move up in the NFL, and outsiders, especially black outsiders, couldn’t even get consideration with a simple interview.
I’d be apocalyptically pissed too if I were him. Knowing they wasted my time and only talked to me to fulfill a race obligation would feel so disrespectful. Especially considering they know you’re up for other jobs and they are taking you away from prepping for those interviews. I get having a guy in mind for the job, but not being completely 100% sold on him until I interviewed a number of people. Even with a track record like Harbaugh, I wouldn’t automatically be all in on such an important hire. It sounds like that was the case with Daboll. I had wondered why we weren’t interviewing him.
This lawsuit will never come close to making up his lost long term income had he become a head coach again. He’s making a legit sacrifice here, unlike the dingus Kaep. I don’t know if it will succeed as a case, but I hope it ends the common practices in the league of nepotism/you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours.
As for the Dolphins owner offering up money to tank - that’s straight up illegal (as in criminally). Teams can tank all they want, but it can’t happen with cash offered. These allegations could explode into far more than just a PR nightmare.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
I think more than anything he’s attacking “the old boys system”. Nepotism is probably only part of that. Can he prove racism? I’m not sure under these circumstances, but it stands to reason that it has played a role in the NFL throughout it’s existence. The Rooney rule exists because it takes opportunities to move up in the NFL, and outsiders, especially black outsiders, couldn’t even get consideration with a simple interview.
I’d be apocalyptically pissed too if I were him. Knowing they wasted my time and only talked to me to fulfill a race obligation would feel so disrespectful. Especially considering they know you’re up for other jobs and they are taking you away from prepping for those interviews. I get having a guy in mind for the job, but not being completely 100% sold on him until I interviewed a number of people. Even with a track record like Harbaugh, I wouldn’t automatically be all in on such an important hire. It sounds like that was the case with Daboll. I had wondered why we weren’t interviewing him.
This lawsuit will never come close to making up his lost long term income had he become a head coach again. He’s making a legit sacrifice here, unlike the dingus Kaep. I don’t know if it will succeed as a case, but I hope it ends the common practices in the league of nepotism/you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours.
As for the Dolphins owner offering up money to tank - that’s straight up illegal (as in criminally). Teams can tank all they want, but it can’t happen with cash offered. These allegations could explode into far more than just a PR nightmare.
If he is pissed because the Giants wasted his time, he needs to put his big boy pants on. Good grief we all know what the Rooney Rule is.
Quote: @Chuckf said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I think more than anything he’s attacking “the old boys system”. Nepotism is probably only part of that. Can he prove racism? I’m not sure under these circumstances, but it stands to reason that it has played a role in the NFL throughout it’s existence. The Rooney rule exists because it takes opportunities to move up in the NFL, and outsiders, especially black outsiders, couldn’t even get consideration with a simple interview.
I’d be apocalyptically pissed too if I were him. Knowing they wasted my time and only talked to me to fulfill a race obligation would feel so disrespectful. Especially considering they know you’re up for other jobs and they are taking you away from prepping for those interviews. I get having a guy in mind for the job, but not being completely 100% sold on him until I interviewed a number of people. Even with a track record like Harbaugh, I wouldn’t automatically be all in on such an important hire. It sounds like that was the case with Daboll. I had wondered why we weren’t interviewing him.
This lawsuit will never come close to making up his lost long term income had he become a head coach again. He’s making a legit sacrifice here, unlike the dingus Kaep. I don’t know if it will succeed as a case, but I hope it ends the common practices in the league of nepotism/you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours.
As for the Dolphins owner offering up money to tank - that’s straight up illegal (as in criminally). Teams can tank all they want, but it can’t happen with cash offered. These allegations could explode into far more than just a PR nightmare.
If he is pissed because the Giants wasted his time, he needs to put his big boy pants on. Good grief we all know what the Rooney Rule is.
It seems he is pissed because his team's owner paid for him to lose, he did a hell of a job coaching that team down the stretch which should have kept his job, and seemed to get fucked by a nepotism filled NFL for a new job he probably wanted pretty badly. Regardless of the "race" part being involved, there is plenty to be salty about here.
I would want Brian Flores as a coach, he seems to be a strong football mind and a leader of men
Quote: @Chuckf said:
@ bigbone62 said:
@ Chuckf said:
@ JR44 said:
@ bigbone62 said:
@ JR44 said:
So the Giants hired the guy who is credited with transforming Josh Allen into one the league's best QBs and was razor close to going to the Super Bowl two at years in a row over a guy who was just let go from his team, because the consensus within the organization was that he was an egomaniac who verbally abused others. There are reports of him completely abused Tua in practices. And this becomes a racism lawsuit? So if you get let go and you can't find another job then the answer is to just create a lawsuit, sounds pretty familiar.
Funny thing is that the Dolphins long time GM is black, their DC is black as well as 4 other coaches and their owner tried everything he could to trade for Watson. I wouldn't doubt he was offered money to lose game as that would have netted them Burrow, but that doesn't have anything to do with race.
What does the Dolphins having a black GM, other black coaches and the team wanting a black QB have to do with the Giants allegations?
Nice try, how about actually reading what I wrote which was comparing him to Daboll, but go ahead with your agenda here and post whatever you want to read into it.
It has everything to do with the Giants had their guy they wanted and because of the Rooney Rule had to go through the motions. IF this is all true. JR44's point is easily inferred. Flores WHOLE CASE is because racism and JR44's point is it has NOTHING to do with race it is all about performance and need. Daboll turned Josh Allen into an All Pro, the Giants have a talented young QB in Daniel Jones they want the same results for. Flores had TUA and did NOTHING to advance his development. In fact, he regressed. The other point is Flores was HIRED by Miami, so when he doesn't get desired results and gets fired now all of a sudden the Dolphins front office is racist?
That is some serious mental gymnastics! His complaint is against the Giants. What the Dolphins do has absolutely no bearing on the Giants allegedly having picked a coach before they complied with the Rooney Rule. This is like saying "I can't be prejudice because my friend hires minorities".
Not at all but whatever. You do you. There is also, you know, the whole deal where the owner has the right to hire who they want too, right? You don't think in the history of the NFL that an owner and GM had their guy picked out but also interviewed others as well? What does race have to do with it? Funny he also brought out the Broncos and we all know Vance Joseph was the head coach who was fired. Personally after reading what Oracle posted above its more of the "nepotism" factor than race it seems like.
Explain to us what the Dolphin's having a black GM, coaches or players has to do with the Giants. In what way are the Dolphins involved in what the Giants allegedly did? The funny thing is I haven't even commented one way or the other on The Rooney Rule or what the Giants did. I am simply pointing out that what Miami has going on in no way corelates to what may have happened in New York. It a false equivalency
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ Chuckf said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I think more than anything he’s attacking “the old boys system”. Nepotism is probably only part of that. Can he prove racism? I’m not sure under these circumstances, but it stands to reason that it has played a role in the NFL throughout it’s existence. The Rooney rule exists because it takes opportunities to move up in the NFL, and outsiders, especially black outsiders, couldn’t even get consideration with a simple interview.
I’d be apocalyptically pissed too if I were him. Knowing they wasted my time and only talked to me to fulfill a race obligation would feel so disrespectful. Especially considering they know you’re up for other jobs and they are taking you away from prepping for those interviews. I get having a guy in mind for the job, but not being completely 100% sold on him until I interviewed a number of people. Even with a track record like Harbaugh, I wouldn’t automatically be all in on such an important hire. It sounds like that was the case with Daboll. I had wondered why we weren’t interviewing him.
This lawsuit will never come close to making up his lost long term income had he become a head coach again. He’s making a legit sacrifice here, unlike the dingus Kaep. I don’t know if it will succeed as a case, but I hope it ends the common practices in the league of nepotism/you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours.
As for the Dolphins owner offering up money to tank - that’s straight up illegal (as in criminally). Teams can tank all they want, but it can’t happen with cash offered. These allegations could explode into far more than just a PR nightmare.
If he is pissed because the Giants wasted his time, he needs to put his big boy pants on. Good grief we all know what the Rooney Rule is.
It seems he is pissed because his team's owner paid for him to lose, he did a hell of a job coaching that team down the stretch which should have kept his job, and seemed to get fucked by a nepotism filled NFL for a new job he probably wanted pretty badly. Regardless of the "race" part being involved, there is plenty to be salty about here.
I would want Brian Flores as a coach, he seems to be a strong football mind and a leader of men
I get that, and personally I agree with you Flores can outright coach no disagreement there.
Quote: @bigbone62 said:
@ Chuckf said:
@ bigbone62 said:
@ Chuckf said:
@ JR44 said:
@ bigbone62 said:
@ JR44 said:
So the Giants hired the guy who is credited with transforming Josh Allen into one the league's best QBs and was razor close to going to the Super Bowl two at years in a row over a guy who was just let go from his team, because the consensus within the organization was that he was an egomaniac who verbally abused others. There are reports of him completely abused Tua in practices. And this becomes a racism lawsuit? So if you get let go and you can't find another job then the answer is to just create a lawsuit, sounds pretty familiar.
Funny thing is that the Dolphins long time GM is black, their DC is black as well as 4 other coaches and their owner tried everything he could to trade for Watson. I wouldn't doubt he was offered money to lose game as that would have netted them Burrow, but that doesn't have anything to do with race.
What does the Dolphins having a black GM, other black coaches and the team wanting a black QB have to do with the Giants allegations?
Nice try, how about actually reading what I wrote which was comparing him to Daboll, but go ahead with your agenda here and post whatever you want to read into it.
It has everything to do with the Giants had their guy they wanted and because of the Rooney Rule had to go through the motions. IF this is all true. JR44's point is easily inferred. Flores WHOLE CASE is because racism and JR44's point is it has NOTHING to do with race it is all about performance and need. Daboll turned Josh Allen into an All Pro, the Giants have a talented young QB in Daniel Jones they want the same results for. Flores had TUA and did NOTHING to advance his development. In fact, he regressed. The other point is Flores was HIRED by Miami, so when he doesn't get desired results and gets fired now all of a sudden the Dolphins front office is racist?
That is some serious mental gymnastics! His complaint is against the Giants. What the Dolphins do has absolutely no bearing on the Giants allegedly having picked a coach before they complied with the Rooney Rule. This is like saying "I can't be prejudice because my friend hires minorities".
Not at all but whatever. You do you. There is also, you know, the whole deal where the owner has the right to hire who they want too, right? You don't think in the history of the NFL that an owner and GM had their guy picked out but also interviewed others as well? What does race have to do with it? Funny he also brought out the Broncos and we all know Vance Joseph was the head coach who was fired. Personally after reading what Oracle posted above its more of the "nepotism" factor than race it seems like.
Explain to us what the Dolphin's having a black GM, coaches or players has to do with the Giants. In what way are the Dolphins involved in what the Giants allegedly did? The funny thing is I haven't even commented one way or the other on The Rooney Rule or what the Giants did. I am simply pointing out that what Miami has going on in no way corelates to what may have happened in New York. It a false equivalency
Kinda of shows he wasn't fired because of racism? The allegations of the owner trying to pay him to lose is really bad, I agree on that. What exactly did the Giants do that was illegal or bad? Daboll obviously coached up Josh Allen into an All Pro talent. The Giants have a physically talented QB in Daniel Jones who was a top ten pick, a lot invested. They want the same results, Daboll has proven he can do it. Meanwhile in Miami, Tua has regressed under Flores. There is a reason Daboll was their prime target and it had NOTHING to do with his skin color.
I think this situation is a ficking mess, no way what happened in Miami should even be in the discussion for what took place in NY. 2 separate unrelated events. Maybe what took place with Ross is illegal, but not racist, and maybe hiring dabol before interviewing Flores was against the rooney rule, but thats not illegal. I dont evem know what to say about anything involving Denver since that info seems to be pretty new to the party, but based on information I've seen to date there is no case here against the league.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3320...nk-2016-17
This is becoming a bigger issue, and if the NFL was aware of it then it becomes a bigger issue. Essentially - the NFL is on the hook for the owners actions as it is the overall umbrella. No different than someone suing Walmart not the individual store or manager/owner. This wrongful termination, which with his records he has a leg to stand on. Add in the illegal behavior of paying to lose, which the NFL was aware of before with Hue Jackson based on the article above then it is possible that the NFL knew or should have known this was occurring before. As to the hiring process, the NFL may be able to get out of it by technicalities, but on the surface it was a sham interview. However on principal I have done many of these when I was hiring employees. I knew likely who would be my best candidate before even the interview yet went through the process. The issue here is perception and the Giants obviously leaked their information and that is what is going to get the Giants. So the NFL has a hot mess on their hands and they are going to be paying out big money now regarding this. The fact they said they deny this occurs without even doing an investigation regarding the claims makes it look even worse. Good luck. Not sure the pay day will be worth never having a true opportunity again. Someone would have to be very desperate to give another opportunity to someone who is willing to sue its employer.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ claykenny said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Just asking, what did Ross do wrong that indy didn't do when they sucked for luck? Or other teams that have shut down stars at them end of pointless campaigns?
Bribery to impact the outcome of a sporting event is a federal crime. If Ross offered him money to lose and Flores has proof, Ross has more than the NFL to be worried about.
At least the maximum prison sentence is only 5 years.
Edited just to clarify an owner telling a coach to lose is not an issue, aside from the whole integrity of the game thing. It’s the bribery/incentive portion that makes it a big deal from a legal standpoint.
LOL, integrity of the game. The same game that washed over brain injuries, the same game that refuses to got to full time officials and allows those incompetent officials to determine the outcome of games through inconsistent enforcement of arbitrary amd constantly changing rules...that integrity of the game?
Like I said, its been apparent in the past that teams have flopped for better draft position and nothing was ever made of it. Honestly if Flores was the good guy here he wouldn't have waited so long to bring the accusations out, why didn't he go to the Goodell much earlier if this was in any way about preserving the integrity of the game? This is about revenge and nothing more for Flores.
As far as the giants thing, is it racist that they hired the better candidate, simply because the guy they didn't hire/interview was black? I would wager that the reason they moved so quickly on dabol is likely because he was a top candidate and didn't want to lose out on him to another team... makes perfect sense to me without some other information that would point to racist tendencies by the giants.
Does racism exist, most definitely, is this an example of it, imo..no, not based on this act alone. Sounds more like more sour grapes by Flores.
I don’t really understand your reply to my post.
If Ross offered to pay him for losses, that is a federal legal issue. I has nothing to do with race. You can argue about the timing and underlying motives by Flores, but that isn’t really relevant when discussing the fact that what Ross is being accused of is a crime. Not at all equivalent to losing games for a better draft pick. It is bribery with intent to fix games.
But, by all means, continue your race rant if it makes you feel better.
Quote: @claykenny said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ claykenny said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Just asking, what did Ross do wrong that indy didn't do when they sucked for luck? Or other teams that have shut down stars at them end of pointless campaigns?
Bribery to impact the outcome of a sporting event is a federal crime. If Ross offered him money to lose and Flores has proof, Ross has more than the NFL to be worried about.
At least the maximum prison sentence is only 5 years.
Edited just to clarify an owner telling a coach to lose is not an issue, aside from the whole integrity of the game thing. It’s the bribery/incentive portion that makes it a big deal from a legal standpoint.
LOL, integrity of the game. The same game that washed over brain injuries, the same game that refuses to got to full time officials and allows those incompetent officials to determine the outcome of games through inconsistent enforcement of arbitrary amd constantly changing rules...that integrity of the game?
Like I said, its been apparent in the past that teams have flopped for better draft position and nothing was ever made of it. Honestly if Flores was the good guy here he wouldn't have waited so long to bring the accusations out, why didn't he go to the Goodell much earlier if this was in any way about preserving the integrity of the game? This is about revenge and nothing more for Flores.
As far as the giants thing, is it racist that they hired the better candidate, simply because the guy they didn't hire/interview was black? I would wager that the reason they moved so quickly on dabol is likely because he was a top candidate and didn't want to lose out on him to another team... makes perfect sense to me without some other information that would point to racist tendencies by the giants.
Does racism exist, most definitely, is this an example of it, imo..no, not based on this act alone. Sounds more like more sour grapes by Flores.
I don’t really understand your reply to my post.
If Ross offered to pay him for losses, that is a federal legal issue. I has nothing to do with race. You can argue about the timing and underlying motives by Flores, but that isn’t really relevant when discussing the fact that what Ross is being accused of is a crime. Not at all equivalent to losing games for a better draft pick. It is bribery with intent to fix games.
But, by all means, continue your race rant if it makes you feel better.
You mentioned integrity of the game, which imo is a farce of a defense, the NFL lost any integrity a long time ago. The only difference between what Ross asked of Flores and whT has been done in the past was Flores didn't go along with it and got fired, and then saw a chance for a pay day. If he had real concern for the integrity of the game he would have went to Goodell a few months ago instead of the way things turned out. Also he wouldn't be hiding behind the rooney rule and the woke movement to cover up the fact that he wasn't as good of a candidate for the giants job and now he's unemployed.
But if you want to continue believing that this. Is about just the fixing the games issue and not a discussion on the race charges brought by his law suits.. knock yourself out.
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