Quote: @bigbone62 said:
I'm confused. Win-Loss record is or is not the only stat that matters? He's 29-30 and outside of a wonky Covid season a 6 win QB as a starter. 6-7, 6-10, 11-5, 6-8. In four seasons a number 1 overall pick is 8-22 against winning teams. Beyond that you have no idea physically what he'll be in 2022.
The Vikings wouldn’t do this deal “for” Baker though. They’d do it to save money, jettison Kirk, and acquire picks. Baker is a nice throw-in, for the reasons Guru just listed.
I don’t think either guy is the longterm answer here (it’s just one game but they were both terrrrrible when they played each other last season), but at least Mayfield is cheaper and younger, I guess.
If the Vikings do wind up with Harbaugh, pairing him with Mayfield strikes me as a better fit personality-wise than sticking with Kirk fwiw, but all of that is pretty far-fetched at this point I think.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...yfBa00.htm
No thanks for multiple reasons, but lets start here.
No doubt, Baker has been inconsistent at best and at times horrible. In their game against us, for example, he was the only reason we were even in that game.
And considering his injuries, I'm sure they would love to get their hands on the most durable QB in the NFL.
Yabbut, he makes a helluva commercial.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ bigbone62 said:
I'm confused. Win-Loss record is or is not the only stat that matters? He's 29-30 and outside of a wonky Covid season a 6 win QB as a starter. 6-7, 6-10, 11-5, 6-8. In four seasons a number 1 overall pick is 8-22 against winning teams. Beyond that you have no idea physically what he'll be in 2022.
The Vikings wouldn’t do this deal “for” Baker though. They’d do it to save money, jettison Kirk, and acquire picks. Baker is a nice throw-in, for the reasons Guru just listed.
I don’t think either guy is the longterm answer here (it’s just one game but they were both terrrrrible when they played each other last season), but at least Mayfield is cheaper and younger, I guess.
If the Vikings do wind up with Harbaugh, pairing him with Mayfield strikes me as a better fit personality-wise than sticking with Kirk fwiw, but all of that is pretty far-fetched at this point I think.
Agree, the deal is not "For" Baker but there is a chance he develops further after an injury riddled season that he played through. Baker led the Browns to an 11-5 record a then beat the Steelers (in Pittsburg) in the playoffs before losing to KC in a pretty close game. This is a franchise that hasn't had back-to-back winning seasons in over 20 years, and they came up short with an 8-9 record this year with Baker only able to play in 15 of those games.
Baker is 1-1 in the Playoffs, in his 4 seasons, as is Kirk in his 4 with us.
Kirk has also led us to only 1 winning season so far 10-6 in 2019.
Last year Kirk led the Vikings to the same record as Mayfield did with the Browns.
Baker has earned in his 4 seasons a total of 33 million with a hit next year of 19 million.
In those same 4 years Kirk has earned a total of 115 million and will have a CAP hit of 45 million next year 2022.
Mayfeild started out 2021 just like he did his excellent 2020 season and then got injured. He has the potential to get better going into his 5th year.
Overall, the Browns are in a similar place as we are with our QB situation? Is our QB good enough to get us over the top and how much is he worth of our salary cap.
The respective GM's have to answer those questions and if they both decide No, our guy is not the guy, then a trade might be mutual beneficial.
Baker is a complete joke. no way do I want him. hes on the verge of becoming a perineal backup the rest of his career.
Heh...so, wait....
...some people are saying that a "solution" to the Kirk Cousins situation (as opposed to, y'know, functional o-line and real coaching) is to trade him for a less robust QB that supposedly has also driven off at least one top-flight WR?
Huh.
I honestly think that the sports news just throws our QB into any story out of habit/reflex now...because he's supposedly been "about to be traded" since before he got here.
Quote: @NorthernCalVike said:
Baker is a complete joke. no way do I want him. hes on the verge of becoming a perineal backup the rest of his career.
Good insight 
Quote: @Zanary said:
Heh...so, wait....
...some people are saying that a "solution" to the Kirk Cousins situation (as opposed to, y'know, functional o-line and real coaching) is to trade him for a less robust QB that supposedly has also driven off at least one top-flight WR?
Huh.
I honestly think that the sports news just throws our QB into any story out of habit/reflex now...because he's supposedly been "about to be traded" since before he got here.
This is a fair point but as I said a few posts ago, I don’t think the Vikings do this deal because they think Baker is the “solution”. They do it to move on from Kirk.
Whether moving on from Kirk is a good idea or not I guess is another matter but IF the Vikings decide they want to, this deal makes a lot of sense if Cleveland is so inclined.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’m not buying this. It would be an absolutely moronic trade by the Vikings. Save very little, take a big hit in QB play, and get a 3r for the trouble? 2 firsts would be minimum. Dumb idea.
Would Mayfield in a McConnell ran offense interest you? If so there's one first round pick and he would flourish if used in the same fashion Kyler Murray is used. If Cousins met his conditions, there's another first round pick, plus the 3rd this year. What do you believe Cousins value to be, and which other team would give the Vikings this type of deal? If the decision is to move on from Cousins and his contract, it's probably the Browns, Redskins, and a couple other teams that make sense and that's it
This isn't a full on rebuild but it's a roster that needs tweaking, changes, and is up against the cap. The Wilfs have committed to Kwesi and his vision for four years. I'm assuming that will also go with whomever he selects to be coach.
Definitely the compensation I see as insufficient. Moving Kirk for Mayfield is a downgrade. Mayfield is better than your journeyman borderline starters, but he is not on Cousins level. So at the outset, you’re reducing the capability of your team. Why?
That’s the question. Cap savings will not be much next year. Following years you will likely pay Mayfield close to the cap number you’re paying Kirk on an extension. The best outcome would be being able to draft a stud. However, the odds are exceptionally low that that happens.
So for me, the risk profile for the Vikings is quite high. It’s not necessarily prohibitive, but compensation will have to match that risk or you don’t do it.
I wouldn’t trade him for less than this years 1st, 3rd & next years 1st - no conditions. Doing anything conditional is dumb in my opinion, for lack of a better term. That’s their risk to take on.
If none of the teams are willing to give up a similar type of deal, I wouldn’t do it. I’d focus on an extension that puts Cousins cap number between $30-35 each year. I’d focus on improving our defense. Even with an average defense, this team was a contender this year. In my opinion, a new coach and system along with adding good draft picks and we’re in good shape.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’m not buying this. It would be an absolutely moronic trade by the Vikings. Save very little, take a big hit in QB play, and get a 3r for the trouble? 2 firsts would be minimum. Dumb idea.
Would Mayfield in a McConnell ran offense interest you? If so there's one first round pick and he would flourish if used in the same fashion Kyler Murray is used. If Cousins met his conditions, there's another first round pick, plus the 3rd this year. What do you believe Cousins value to be, and which other team would give the Vikings this type of deal? If the decision is to move on from Cousins and his contract, it's probably the Browns, Redskins, and a couple other teams that make sense and that's it
This isn't a full on rebuild but it's a roster that needs tweaking, changes, and is up against the cap. The Wilfs have committed to Kwesi and his vision for four years. I'm assuming that will also go with whomever he selects to be coach.
Definitely the compensation I see as insufficient. Moving Kirk for Mayfield is a downgrade. Mayfield is better than your journeyman borderline starters, but he is not on Cousins level. So at the outset, you’re reducing the capability of your team. Why?
That’s the question. Cap savings will not be much next year. Following years you will likely pay Mayfield close to the cap number you’re paying Kirk on an extension. The best outcome would be being able to draft a stud. However, the odds are exceptionally low that that happens.
So for me, the risk profile for the Vikings is quite high. It’s not necessarily prohibitive, but compensation will have to match that risk or you don’t do it.
I wouldn’t trade him for less than this years 1st, 3rd & next years 1st - no conditions. Doing anything conditional is dumb in my opinion, for lack of a better term. That’s their risk to take on.
If none of the teams are willing to give up a similar type of deal, I wouldn’t do it. I’d focus on an extension that puts Cousins cap number between $30-35 each year. I’d focus on improving our defense. Even with an average defense, this team was a contender this year. In my opinion, a new coach and system along with adding good draft picks and we’re in good shape.
Contender for what? Division title, prob not. Wild card...yes and 1 and out. This is not a contending team with an average defense unless you are happy just contending for a Wild Card and I know we are all not happy with that. After watching all those playoff games was there a team that we could have beat past a wild card? I really don't think so. Those teams looked years ahead of us in execution and coaching and I think we, as Viking diehards, over value some of our players.
Quote: @minny65b said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’m not buying this. It would be an absolutely moronic trade by the Vikings. Save very little, take a big hit in QB play, and get a 3r for the trouble? 2 firsts would be minimum. Dumb idea.
Would Mayfield in a McConnell ran offense interest you? If so there's one first round pick and he would flourish if used in the same fashion Kyler Murray is used. If Cousins met his conditions, there's another first round pick, plus the 3rd this year. What do you believe Cousins value to be, and which other team would give the Vikings this type of deal? If the decision is to move on from Cousins and his contract, it's probably the Browns, Redskins, and a couple other teams that make sense and that's it
This isn't a full on rebuild but it's a roster that needs tweaking, changes, and is up against the cap. The Wilfs have committed to Kwesi and his vision for four years. I'm assuming that will also go with whomever he selects to be coach.
Definitely the compensation I see as insufficient. Moving Kirk for Mayfield is a downgrade. Mayfield is better than your journeyman borderline starters, but he is not on Cousins level. So at the outset, you’re reducing the capability of your team. Why?
That’s the question. Cap savings will not be much next year. Following years you will likely pay Mayfield close to the cap number you’re paying Kirk on an extension. The best outcome would be being able to draft a stud. However, the odds are exceptionally low that that happens.
So for me, the risk profile for the Vikings is quite high. It’s not necessarily prohibitive, but compensation will have to match that risk or you don’t do it.
I wouldn’t trade him for less than this years 1st, 3rd & next years 1st - no conditions. Doing anything conditional is dumb in my opinion, for lack of a better term. That’s their risk to take on.
If none of the teams are willing to give up a similar type of deal, I wouldn’t do it. I’d focus on an extension that puts Cousins cap number between $30-35 each year. I’d focus on improving our defense. Even with an average defense, this team was a contender this year. In my opinion, a new coach and system along with adding good draft picks and we’re in good shape.
Contender for what? Division title, prob not. Wild card...yes and 1 and out. This is not a contending team with an average defense unless you are happy just contending for a Wild Card and I know we are all not happy with that. After watching all those playoff games was there a team that we could have beat past a wild card? I really don't think so. Those teams looked years ahead of us in execution and coaching and I think we, as Viking diehards, over value some of our players.
I think much the opposite. In my opinion most Viking fans don’t appreciate what they have and don’t recognize the talent on the team. Kirk Cousins is a case in point. He plays at elite levels most of the time and fans want to get rid of him. It’s not rational, it’s emotional. They point out things like record when it comes to QB - which literally tells you nothing of value - again it’s emotional. Matt Stafford is an obvious example of the team matters.
Here’s our performance against the teams playing today:
Bengals 27 Vikings 24
49ers. 34. Vikings 26
Rams. 30. Vikings 23
Every single game was winnable. Our coach started players like Breeland, who got torched all season long. Do we win some of our other games with Dantzler in? Definitely possible. Little things like that are the difference between wins and losses in the NFL. How about play calling on offense and defense? Make a difference? Obviously it had a dramatic impact on the season.
A middle of the road defense beats all of these teams. Does that mean a playoff win? I’d say not with Coach Zimmer. With a good coach who gets a team properly prepped and fired up? Absolutely. The team we fielded talent wise, was not far off.
My exact point is is that coaches matter. Coaching decisions matter. A superior coach, which won’t take much, can make this a competitive team right away. An actual competent defensive coordinator with some decent additions can turn this thing around and it will equal wins. We absolutely can hang next year if we don’t blow this team up.
Based on the majority of what I read, few Vikings fans recognize this. They stay focused on areas of the team that are strengths, as if changing to a lower performance QB is magically going to equate to wins because of things like “leadership”. These are things that mean next to nothing when it comes to winning. They make great “isms”, but they are nothing more than emotional fluff.
The right coach can straighten this team out to the point it can win a lot of games next year. The question is, does emotion or logic win out?
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