Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
I see where you're coming from, but that's hard to say when you're the GM and most in your role hardly make it past 6 or 7 years. Strong defensive teams dont stay as dominant as teams with great QB play so that meant the Vikes were at a disadvantage. So much easier to say you have a top 5 QB now get me a defense. Vikes had a great defense and nothing for quarterback so they went out and tried to solve that problem in the best way possible and I think they did that. Do I like the most recent extension? Not primarily, but Cousins was the right choice at that time and I dont think they should have done it differently.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
I see where you're coming from, but that's hard to say when you're the GM and most in your role hardly make it past 6 or 7 years. Strong defensive teams dont stay as dominant as teams with great QB play so that meant the Vikes were at a disadvantage. So much easier to say you have a top 5 QB now get me a defense. Vikes had a great defense and nothing for quarterback so they went out and tried to solve that problem in the best way possible and I think they did that. Do I like the most recent extension? Not primarily, but Cousins was the right choice at that time and I dont think they should have done it differently.
Kirk was the 20th ranked QB of 2017, 16th for QBR.
Not top 5 performance, not top QB money
It was a dumb move and disrupted what was being built. Jimmy is right, build a team to be there every year (what we had), not acting there is a window that is closing. Spielman made his move, it was a foolish one.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
I see where you're coming from, but that's hard to say when you're the GM and most in your role hardly make it past 6 or 7 years. Strong defensive teams dont stay as dominant as teams with great QB play so that meant the Vikes were at a disadvantage. So much easier to say you have a top 5 QB now get me a defense. Vikes had a great defense and nothing for quarterback so they went out and tried to solve that problem in the best way possible and I think they did that. Do I like the most recent extension? Not primarily, but Cousins was the right choice at that time and I dont think they should have done it differently.
Kirk was the 20th ranked QB of 2017, 16th for QBR.
Not top 5 performance, not top QB money
It was a dumb move and disrupted what was being built. Jimmy is right, build a team to be there every year (what we had), not acting there is a window that is closing. Spielman made his move, it was a foolish one.
I was on the bring back Keenum bandwagon. But looking at him in Denver and now Cleveland.....he had a horseshoe up his ass that year. To expect it to carry over wasn't likely.
What was your plan at QB?
1. Keenum who luck was about to run out2. Bradford who hasn't played since3. Teddy who leg was still mostly fallen off
OR
4. Go outside the organization and get the BPA.
I don't have the answer. I'm not sure we can win with Kirk so I'm cool if we move on. I think it was the right decision although expensive back then and even more expensive now.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
The only teams with a 'window of openness' that doesn't shut are those with franchise QBs. There aren't many of those in the NFL and Kirk isn't one of them. But get in line with the rest of the other 27 or so teams without one.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
I see where you're coming from, but that's hard to say when you're the GM and most in your role hardly make it past 6 or 7 years. Strong defensive teams dont stay as dominant as teams with great QB play so that meant the Vikes were at a disadvantage. So much easier to say you have a top 5 QB now get me a defense. Vikes had a great defense and nothing for quarterback so they went out and tried to solve that problem in the best way possible and I think they did that. Do I like the most recent extension? Not primarily, but Cousins was the right choice at that time and I dont think they should have done it differently.
I said it at the time, that was to much for him and that it would have a negative impact on keeping our team solid, the team has declined since then, sure the O has improved, but not nearly as much as the defense has declined, and that is why rick and zim are both out of their jobs. IMO it was a mistake because he takes to much of the cap for the return, said it then, say it now, and I will scream it if/when they extend him to another top of the market type deal because they want to lower his 2022 cap hit.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
I see where you're coming from, but that's hard to say when you're the GM and most in your role hardly make it past 6 or 7 years. Strong defensive teams dont stay as dominant as teams with great QB play so that meant the Vikes were at a disadvantage. So much easier to say you have a top 5 QB now get me a defense. Vikes had a great defense and nothing for quarterback so they went out and tried to solve that problem in the best way possible and I think they did that. Do I like the most recent extension? Not primarily, but Cousins was the right choice at that time and I dont think they should have done it differently.
Kirk was the 20th ranked QB of 2017, 16th for QBR.
Not top 5 performance, not top QB money
It was a dumb move and disrupted what was being built. Jimmy is right, build a team to be there every year (what we had), not acting there is a window that is closing. Spielman made his move, it was a foolish one.
I was on the bring back Keenum bandwagon. But looking at him in Denver and now Cleveland.....he had a horseshoe up his ass that year. To expect it to carry over wasn't likely.
What was your plan at QB?
1. Keenum who luck was about to run out2. Bradford who hasn't played since3. Teddy who leg was still mostly fallen off
OR
4. Go outside the organization and get the BPA.
I don't have the answer. I'm not sure we can win with Kirk so I'm cool if we move on. I think it was the right decision although expensive back then and even more expensive now.
Yeah, there weren't any good answers that year. Keenum was an overachieving backup who got paid like a legit starter. Not wise. Bradford got paid down in AZ and played in 2 more games I think. Teddy was the best option, but he wasn't ready yet and wanted too much money for a huge question mark.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Skodin said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
No. The Vikings were in their window and you don't run it back with a proven backup QB when you're in your window. There's no way Case would have repeated those numbers. The right decision was made and it hasnt worked out like the 60 other years for this team.
The right decision was made, you mean the one that failed the organization and the men who made it? The team created its window by having a team, not a team lead by a mercenary who's contract would hamstring the rest of the roster. I don't think we needed Case to repeat his numbers in 2018 for us to be successful. Drafting a QB to take the reigns would have been the smartest move to keeping the 52 other positions stacked.
And what greatness would Keenum had to achieve to do as well as Kirk? Choke in week 17 vs your rival AT HOME, playing their back ups, and miss the playoffs.
So Kirk is solely to blame? We are playing that game again? Maybe the team could have not wasted all that money on Barr? Maybe they could have realized Rudolph was slow as shit and was only a blocker or red zone TE two years before they let him walk? Maybe the team could have hired a better OL coach for to help the OL that has been bottom 10 since 2017.
53 players on the roster. I dont know about you but I recall scoring 7 points in the NFC Championship Game vs Philly so they went and got the best QB on the market. You were probably a mad fan when Kirk threw that dime to Thielen to beat the Saints a couple of years ago.
No Kirk isn't solely to blame but his contract is a huge part of it. The reason they kept Rudy was because they believed they had a window they had just committed $80 million to. Signing Tom Compton, a bum as our starting OG because he was cheap and Kirk's buddy, another huge mistake.
It was the all in mentality that Zimmer was worried about instead of continued building from within. He was right and it was the beginning of the end.
We had the right building model and it was paying off, but reactionary moves by the former GM derailed that and now he's fired, the coach who was 39-25 before that signing, is also now fired. The only time up until 2018 a team had won a super bowl with more than 20% of its cap committed to one guy was the 1994 Niners.
One pass does not a career make, good lord. Wow, he threw a DIME in a wild card game. For all of the money and drama associated with this guy, all we have is that to show for it. And you are telling me that that were no other options than committing to him AND THEN AGAIN re-signing him that couldn't produce more than that?
We obviously differ on Cousins so there's not point in debating this when neither of us will change our minds. To my original statement though, what team is going to start a backup QB or look to draft one when they are in their window? The NFL window is so insanely short that you have to do whatever you can to maximize it, which is what the Vikings did and why it was the right move. Our window was created because we had a dominant defense which means it's so much smaller than teams who enter a window with a dominant QB, especially when one is in their rookie contract (Mahomes).
if you have a quality nfl team, you dont have a window, you live with a window of varying degrees of openness. I dont like the notion that you throw in for a 1 or 2 year run and put all the chips on those 2 years... as we have seen the last 2 seasons, so much out of your control to bank on making a window pay off. either build a team to be there every year, or get somebody who can build that team. IMO going after cousins based on a window closing would be the worst reason you could make. mercenaries rarely work out in teams sports... unless its the NBA and that shit is rigged anyway.
I see where you're coming from, but that's hard to say when you're the GM and most in your role hardly make it past 6 or 7 years. Strong defensive teams dont stay as dominant as teams with great QB play so that meant the Vikes were at a disadvantage. So much easier to say you have a top 5 QB now get me a defense. Vikes had a great defense and nothing for quarterback so they went out and tried to solve that problem in the best way possible and I think they did that. Do I like the most recent extension? Not primarily, but Cousins was the right choice at that time and I dont think they should have done it differently.
Kirk was the 20th ranked QB of 2017, 16th for QBR.
Not top 5 performance, not top QB money
It was a dumb move and disrupted what was being built. Jimmy is right, build a team to be there every year (what we had), not acting there is a window that is closing. Spielman made his move, it was a foolish one.
I was on the bring back Keenum bandwagon. But looking at him in Denver and now Cleveland.....he had a horseshoe up his ass that year. To expect it to carry over wasn't likely.
What was your plan at QB?
1. Keenum who luck was about to run out2. Bradford who hasn't played since3. Teddy who leg was still mostly fallen off
OR
4. Go outside the organization and get the BPA.
I don't have the answer. I'm not sure we can win with Kirk so I'm cool if we move on. I think it was the right decision although expensive back then and even more expensive now.
Or stick with the program which was make the playoffs with a strong roster and good QB play. We did it in 15', would have done it in 16' if the OL didn't historically fall apart (BTW that was a good lesson on going HARD after a QB with promise, that deal did't work out), and we did it in 17'. It was working. Stick with it.
Take a shot with Case and draft a QB high, have flexibility in 19 if neither pans out. The options from that point are much better than what they are now based on that decision that was made.
This was a Spielman flash move and it changed the direction for Zimmer. He said what he said in 18' and he wasn't wrong.
He's gone, Spielman is gone, and soon Cousins will be gone. I can't imagine having excitement for another year of Cousins at the helm. I think we have all seen enough
there was a horseshoe, however Keenum was not The Guy and the offensive line and other players played at a higher level because of it. They knew they needed to step it up. when you bring in The Guy ( Kirk), those players become watchers and expect The Man to make things happen. Keenum became The Guy in Denver and it didn't work. Did Keenum over perform that year? above expectations? if so why not roll with what was working.
Quote: @PapaScott said:
there was a horseshoe, however Keenum was not The Guy and the offensive line and other players played at a higher level because of it. They knew they needed to step it up. when you bring in The Guy ( Kirk), those players become watchers and expect The Man to make things happen. Keenum became The Guy in Denver and it didn't work. Did Keenum over perform that year? above expectations? if so why not roll with what was working.
LOL, that isn't usually how teams work, unless "the guy" is a ball hog in basketball. As far with rolling with what was working, I distinctly recall the Philly game which Keenum personally gave the Eagles the momentum with that stupid INT. Same as he did in the Saints game. So, no it wasn't working.
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