Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ minny65 said:
Hoping this is the way it goes:
Zimmer out,
Spelly stays as GM (w/ caveat) or maybe promoted on paper to Elway title and give Colts-Dobbs the GM title. I can live with either of those scenarios and basically what I was hoping for the last few years.
Caveat from the Wilf's is for Spelly to find a trade partner for Cousin's even if we take a little hit money or in exchange wise.
Like 80% of our fans want Kirk gone. The idea that some other team is going to give us a king’s ransom for him is pipe. Vikes will have to eat most of the money and settle for a mid round pick at best. And I’d still do that deal.
It would be more than a mid round pick. The money will factor in to the compensation, and so will his age, but I think he'd draw a 1st rounder at minimum. Could probably use the Wentz and Stafford trades as a guide. Probably somewhere in between those two.
Wentz was younger, but the money trade off is similar. He brought a 1st and a 3rd. Though older, Cousins would be seen as more of a sure thing.
Stafford drew two 1sts and a 3rd (and Goff), but the money was less of a factor. Cousins is the same age as Stafford, but has been more durable, though maybe seen as a slightly lesser QB? You'd certainly get some disagreements about that.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ minny65 said:
Hoping this is the way it goes:
Zimmer out,
Spelly stays as GM (w/ caveat) or maybe promoted on paper to Elway title and give Colts-Dobbs the GM title. I can live with either of those scenarios and basically what I was hoping for the last few years.
Caveat from the Wilf's is for Spelly to find a trade partner for Cousin's even if we take a little hit money or in exchange wise.
Like 80% of our fans want Kirk gone. The idea that some other team is going to give us a king’s ransom for him is pipe. Vikes will have to eat most of the money and settle for a mid round pick at best. And I’d still do that deal.
It would be more than a mid round pick. The money will factor in to the compensation, and so will his age, but I think he'd draw a 1st rounder at minimum. Could probably use the Wentz and Stafford trades as a guide. Probably somewhere in between those two.
Wentz was younger, but the money trade off is similar. He brought a 1st and a 3rd. Though older, Cousins would be seen as more of a sure thing.
Stafford drew two 1sts and a 3rd (and Goff), but the money was less of a factor. Cousins is the same age as Stafford, but has been more durable, though maybe seen as a slightly lesser QB? You'd certainly get some disagreements about that.
Agreed; everyone also needs to keep in mind that the team acquiring Cousins is not inheriting a $45m contract -- his contract is $35m for next year and the Vikes remain on the hook for $10m signing bonus assessed to 2022. So, the acquiring team only has a $35m obligation. Frankly, if you are a team that has a hole at QB and think they are a QB away from the SB (remind you of any team?), $35m is not that large of a sum.
Zimmer should be gone. Rick can't make coaching decisions, he can just provide players...and let's face it, Zimmer's absolutely shat the bed with his use of the player resources over the last couple of seasons. Yes, the luck was horrible and the injuries were tragically timed...but our "cb whisperer" didn't keep our defense from giving up a slew of games even after we'd get late scores, so...yeah, coach Z should be pink-slipped on Monday.
As for Cousins...first of all, the "80% wanting him gone" is BS, but the dumbest and most obnoxious seems to scream about it, non-stop. Similarly, certain sports bobble-heads have put forth unending (and, thus far, utterly incorrect) trade scenarios for him since we got him. Meanwhile, he should go over 4000 yards tomorrow and has already got 30 TDs in a season where our playcalling largely neutered itself every time we got a lead.
I ask his detractors: you KNOW he has a line that's been horribly rated since he got here, and you KNOW our defense has given away absolute tons of points and games, and you KNOW our HC and HC tried to sit on 3 point leads with terrifying regularity...
...so, knowing all that, why do you continue to despise a QB that's actually paid market value for his production and is far more durable than most?
He ain't perfect, but I've never seen a perfect QB. As far as him not being "elite", I don't know...but I can tell you that I'd bet on his results improving with the kind of time a Rodgers or a Brady typically enjoys in the pocket. He escaped more sacks this year (which should be lauded), but still got constantly pummeled and produced in a system based on grind-it-out mechanics.
If we actually got a coach that could use our offensive tools, I think...I KNOW...that the team would look a ton more like '98 amd a lot less like '13.
Didn't Rick pick Zimmer? How does he get a pass?
Seriously, how does he get a pass on this morass?
Players make coaches. Until you figure that out, you will be like me. A 70 year old man who has been loyal to the Vikings since day one, who is finally ready to bail on them!
Zimmer certainly has his limitations and needs to go.
But if you want to stick with Spielman he will find another coach that has no ability to innovate and be a trend setter.
Spielman made critical mistakes that brought this team to where it is now. I am surprised so many people can't see that!
Rick has had enough time as well. My guess is he gets some position as an adviser. The results on the W-L is all that should matter after so many years.
Rick is probably on a one year deal...another shit season and he's likely gone too...
This is what Zimmer said during the 2018 scouting combine…..
https://m.startribune.com/vikings-coach-...0/?clmob=y&c=n
Quote:Coach Mike Zimmer, during a revealing media session at the 2018 scouting combine, expressed concern then that breaking the bank to acquire an expensive QB such as Cousins would lead to departures on his defense in order to balance the books.
"The one thing I told [GM Rick Spielman] was, I said, 'Look, we've had a good team, that's why we've won 40 games [over the previous four seasons],' " Zimmer said then. "It's not because we've had this one guy or that one guy. Let's make sure we keep understanding the team is why we have done good things.
"You just have to pick out the right one [quarterback] that's going to help your football team the best. And where you can still do things at other positions. You don't want to go crazy here."
[ …]
At that 2018 combine, Zimmer could already see this trouble and was already considering the possible ramifications.
"It's important for myself and Rick and the organization to pick the right guy that is going to help us continue to move forward," Zimmer said that day. "If we don't do that, then I'll probably be fired."
As much as I agree he needs to go, we can’t ignore the fact that we are in this situation because of a move Spielman made that decimated the team. We can argue about his inability to groom cornerbacks and giving up leads late but it all started with the Cousins move.
Quote: @mblack said:
This is what Zimmer said during the 2018 scouting combine…..
https://m.startribune.com/vikings-coach-...0/?clmob=y&c=n
Coach Mike Zimmer, during a revealing media session at the 2018 scouting combine, expressed concern then that breaking the bank to acquire an expensive QB such as Cousins would lead to departures on his defense in order to balance the books.
"The one thing I told [GM Rick Spielman] was, I said, 'Look, we've had a good team, that's why we've won 40 games [over the previous four seasons],' " Zimmer said then. "It's not because we've had this one guy or that one guy. Let's make sure we keep understanding the team is why we have done good things.
"You just have to pick out the right one [quarterback] that's going to help your football team the best. And where you can still do things at other positions. You don't want to go crazy here."
[ …]
At that 2018 combine, Zimmer could already see this trouble and was already considering the possible ramifications.
"It's important for myself and Rick and the organization to pick the right guy that is going to help us continue to move forward," Zimmer said that day. "If we don't do that, then I'll probably be fired."
As much as I agree he needs to go, we can’t ignore the fact that we are in this situation because of a move Spielman made that decimated the team. We can argue about his inability to groom cornerbacks and giving up leads late but it all started with the Cousins move.
This is the truth nobody wants to see! Players make coaches. It is really that simple. What would Zimmer's record be this year if he had Rodgers?
What would Zimmer be if he hadn't had Dion Sanders?
The weak spot in this organization is the GM. Is there anyone else that sees it that way besides me?
Quote: @jargomcfargo said:
@ mblack said:
This is what Zimmer said during the 2018 scouting combine…..
https://m.startribune.com/vikings-coach-...0/?clmob=y&c=n
Coach Mike Zimmer, during a revealing media session at the 2018 scouting combine, expressed concern then that breaking the bank to acquire an expensive QB such as Cousins would lead to departures on his defense in order to balance the books.
"The one thing I told [GM Rick Spielman] was, I said, 'Look, we've had a good team, that's why we've won 40 games [over the previous four seasons],' " Zimmer said then. "It's not because we've had this one guy or that one guy. Let's make sure we keep understanding the team is why we have done good things.
"You just have to pick out the right one [quarterback] that's going to help your football team the best. And where you can still do things at other positions. You don't want to go crazy here."
[ …]
At that 2018 combine, Zimmer could already see this trouble and was already considering the possible ramifications.
"It's important for myself and Rick and the organization to pick the right guy that is going to help us continue to move forward," Zimmer said that day. "If we don't do that, then I'll probably be fired."
As much as I agree he needs to go, we can’t ignore the fact that we are in this situation because of a move Spielman made that decimated the team. We can argue about his inability to groom cornerbacks and giving up leads late but it all started with the Cousins move.
This is the truth nobody wants to see! Players make coaches. It is really that simple. What would Zimmer's record be this year if he had Rodgers?
What would Zimmer be if he hadn't had Dion Sanders?
The weak spot in this organization is the GM. Is there anyone else that sees it that way besides me?
I have said it and I am of the opinion that keeping Speilman as GM is a bad move. He has had more than enough time to shape this team and failed. We need a new set if eyes and approach.
He failed because we are not competitive in the NFC as a whole and worst of all no where close to Green Bay (I was told the goal is always to win your division right?). A simple glance at the vikings record under his GM tenure tells you that he has failed to build a team that competes year in and year out.
This team despite all the “wonderful” drafts is void of talent in critical areas (despite all the picks spent on some of the positions over the years) lacks depth, will be losing even more players and has very limited cap space.
Those are not coaching issues. These issues dont go away with a new coach. We need a new way if thinking at the GM position.
Zimmer’s background, stubbornness and bullish declarations did not help his case but Speilman is every part of the problem.
I am not even going to opine on how a billion dollar operation will allow nepotism to take hold of the decision making and appointments at critical positions. Zimmer may have wanted these appointments but again Speilman would have equally signed off on.
Anything less than moving on from Spielman is a mistake. He can be “promoted” to a non GM position for all I care
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