Waterboy: I am interested in your thoughts on Merck. Merck markets Ivermectin in the US. I have read a lot about how the drug companies are using the vaccines (and their influence) to increase profitability -- the follow the money argument -- and that is why the news media, etc. is ignoring some of the material you have discussed. If that is the case, why does Merck, the manufacturer of Ivermectin say that there are "[n]o scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies" and do not advocate for the use of their drug to fight Covid? https://www.merck.com/news/merck-stateme...-pandemic/ Isn't it in Merck's financial interest to have pushed Ivermectin as a treatment this year? Interestingly, instead they seem to have put their financial resources behind developing a new Covid treatment. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc...021-11-04/
So, I am interested in knowing why you think Merck did not advocate for its existing Ivermectin product to treat Covid but rather spent (no doubt millions of dollars) developing a new Covid treatment? I want to stress I am honestly interested in your thoughts on this subject.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Waterboy said:
Hi Waterboy:
I had an epiphany about this discussion last night. I know you are trying to bring your views to the argument but keep in mind that there is only one group that can actually change their course of action at this time -- the unvaccinated such as yourself. I am vaccinated and boosted. Even if I suddenly changed my mind about the efficacy of the vaccine I am still already vaccinated; it is irreversible. So all your arguments, etc., can do no good -- you are only justifying your own decision -- you can't make the vaccinated reverse course. Maybe you feel personally attacked, etc. but really your only response is that you have looked at a whole spectrum of information and your risk assessment is that it is better to remain unvaccinated. While we, the vaccinated, hope we can convince the unvaccinated to modify their course, the unvaccinated can't change the course of the vaccinated because we have already cast off. Please keep in mind also, that we advocate because we think it will potentially save your life and, in comparison, nothing you can write can change what we have irreversibly already done.
Its an eloquent thought, but the unvaccinated aren't getting vaccinated for reasons that are emotional, not logical. They either choose to believe its harmful (which it isn't) or they don't want to be told what to do. It's that simple. 'I'm an American, I won't be forced to do anything!'. Riiiiight. Talk about entitlement. They continue to pivot to new rationale when prior rationale has been debunked.
So I respect the way you are debating, but it's useless. I've learned that during COVID. 58% of this country is vaccinated, its a GD joke. And its taken this long just to get to that number.
How the fuck do you know? Sorry, but that is your emotional opinion, not a logical statement.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Waterboy said:
Hi Waterboy:
I had an epiphany about this discussion last night. I know you are trying to bring your views to the argument but keep in mind that there is only one group that can actually change their course of action at this time -- the unvaccinated such as yourself. I am vaccinated and boosted. Even if I suddenly changed my mind about the efficacy of the vaccine I am still already vaccinated; it is irreversible. So all your arguments, etc., can do no good -- you are only justifying your own decision -- you can't make the vaccinated reverse course. Maybe you feel personally attacked, etc. but really your only response is that you have looked at a whole spectrum of information and your risk assessment is that it is better to remain unvaccinated. While we, the vaccinated, hope we can convince the unvaccinated to modify their course, the unvaccinated can't change the course of the vaccinated because we have already cast off. Please keep in mind also, that we advocate because we think it will potentially save your life and, in comparison, nothing you can write can change what we have irreversibly already done.
Its an eloquent thought, but the unvaccinated aren't getting vaccinated for reasons that are emotional, not logical. They either choose to believe its harmful (which it isn't) or they don't want to be told what to do. It's that simple. 'I'm an American, I won't be forced to do anything!'. Riiiiight. Talk about entitlement. They continue to pivot to new rationale when prior rationale has been debunked.
So I respect the way you are debating, but it's useless. I've learned that during COVID. 58% of this country is vaccinated, its a GD joke. And its taken this long just to get to that number.
How the fuck do you know? Sorry, but that is your emotional opinion, not a logical statement.
I know because I talk to WAY too many people down here in Florida that won't get vaccinated. That's how the fuck I know. There's not a fucking thing to be logical about NOT GETTING VACCINATED.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ greediron said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Waterboy said:
Hi Waterboy:
I had an epiphany about this discussion last night. I know you are trying to bring your views to the argument but keep in mind that there is only one group that can actually change their course of action at this time -- the unvaccinated such as yourself. I am vaccinated and boosted. Even if I suddenly changed my mind about the efficacy of the vaccine I am still already vaccinated; it is irreversible. So all your arguments, etc., can do no good -- you are only justifying your own decision -- you can't make the vaccinated reverse course. Maybe you feel personally attacked, etc. but really your only response is that you have looked at a whole spectrum of information and your risk assessment is that it is better to remain unvaccinated. While we, the vaccinated, hope we can convince the unvaccinated to modify their course, the unvaccinated can't change the course of the vaccinated because we have already cast off. Please keep in mind also, that we advocate because we think it will potentially save your life and, in comparison, nothing you can write can change what we have irreversibly already done.
Its an eloquent thought, but the unvaccinated aren't getting vaccinated for reasons that are emotional, not logical. They either choose to believe its harmful (which it isn't) or they don't want to be told what to do. It's that simple. 'I'm an American, I won't be forced to do anything!'. Riiiiight. Talk about entitlement. They continue to pivot to new rationale when prior rationale has been debunked.
So I respect the way you are debating, but it's useless. I've learned that during COVID. 58% of this country is vaccinated, its a GD joke. And its taken this long just to get to that number.
How the fuck do you know? Sorry, but that is your emotional opinion, not a logical statement.
I know because I talk to WAY too many people down here in Florida that won't get vaccinated. That's how the fuck I know. There's not a fucking thing to be logical about NOT GETTING VACCINATED.
subjective personal opinion. I rest my case.
Oh and Waterboy, Australia has had 1500 deaths by Covid. Population 25 million.
USA is now over 750,000 deaths, population 330 million.
750,000 deaths vs 1500.
USA has 1 in 440 citizens die from Covid
Australia has 1 in 16,660 citizens die from Covid.
Those are indisputable facts.
Poke fun at their drastic measures, but with 70% of population fully vaccinated they chose to keep their people alive.
We didn't, because rightwing politicians and conspiracy theorists decided they knew better than the medical community, gambled, and lost.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
Waterboy: I am interested in your thoughts on Merck. Merck markets Ivermectin in the US. I have read a lot about how the drug companies are using the vaccines (and their influence) to increase profitability -- the follow the money argument -- and that is why the news media, etc. is ignoring some of the material you have discussed. If that is the case, why does Merck, the manufacturer of Ivermectin say that there are "[n]o scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies" and do not advocate for the use of their drug to fight Covid? https://www.merck.com/news/merck-stateme...-pandemic/ Isn't it in Merck's financial interest to have pushed Ivermectin as a treatment this year? Interestingly, instead they seem to have put their financial resources behind developing a new Covid treatment. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc...021-11-04/
So, I am interested in knowing why you think Merck did not advocate for its existing Ivermectin product to treat Covid but rather spent (no doubt millions of dollars) developing a new Covid treatment? I want to stress I am honestly interested in your thoughts on this subject.
This is one of the gray areas that I still have to put together at times. I don't believe in inherent evil of everybody out there. I do believe Big Pharma has a history of choosing Option B & C if it leads to increased profits, much as the tobacco companies did in knowingly lying for years. I think Merck knows that the profits out of vaccines and in slightly reconfigured drugs that can be patented makes them more money. For all of pharma, if these therapeutics are approved, then there can be no emergency use authorization for the vaccines, so I do think there has been collusion to avoid them for this and other reasons I'm sure I don't fully understand. This pandemic is likely to abate in the US but be present worldwide for many more years. I think that motivates big Pharma. My buddy works for Pfizer, and has told me of this in many instances. Not all of them are life and death, but there are many suitable drugs bypassed all of the time in favor of gaining a patent on a new one. All of the employees for these companies are exempted from having to take the vaccine as I understand. That's quite interesting to me. Like anybody else, I read false sources from time to time, but I haven't seen this repudiated. Also, members of congress are exempted. That's just crazy. Over 200 of our 535 representatives have or are taking Ivermectin. Quite interesting... I'm not going to claim to know it all, but the more you dig, the more you find that this isn't exactly one kumbaya event with everybody working towards the same goal. I think most would love to think that, so they want to shut all conversation down.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Oh and Waterboy, Australia has had 1500 deaths by Covid. Population 25 million.
USA is now over 750,000 deaths, population 330 million.
750,000 deaths vs 1500.
USA has 1 in 440 citizens die from Covid
Australia has 1 in 16,660 citizens die from Covid.
Those are indisputable facts.
Poke fun at their drastic measures, but with 70% of population fully vaccinated they chose to keep their people alive.
We didn't, because rightwing politicians and conspiracy theorists decided they knew better than the medical community, gambled, and lost.
Man, you do better at proving your point than I ever could. Yes, in my life I choose to live life, not hang out in caves. They are sitting out life, and quite honestly its unsustainable. If the US or China did that, life as we know it would come to a grinding halt. Australia and New Zealand aren't exactly World Hubs. lol I think you take a very simplistic view of things. Just my opinion. There's also the fact that 100% of humans die everywhere. Your logic would lead us all to never drive cars as all auto accidents could be avoided. You live your little life out in San Fran that way if you like.  And btw, why did you totally ignore the India angle. Where are your answers for that?
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Waterboy said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@ greediron said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Tried to act like he was vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated, you are going to get COVID.
I received my booster yesterday.
Lol, sorry but gotta call out the bullshit. It doesn't matter if you are vaccinated or not, you are likely gonna get covid. Brandon Jacobs has been out for several weeks, comes back and has covid. How many vaxxed players and coaches where out last week. Chicago got it bad, everyone had to follow the unvaxxed protocols.
Quote: @greediron said:
Already considered it. And made that decision.
And as I said, your implication that vaccination will prevent you from getting covid is bullshit.
As to Rodgers, he is young and healthy and will likely be fine. He is still a class A dipshit and I hope GB loses every game. But Zimmer is vaxxed and been more of a dipshit about covid than Rodgers.
Of course it’s not bulllshit it’s FACT. If you are vaccinated your chances of getting COVID drop drastically. I think it’s by something around 92%. There are “breakthrough” cases of course—nothing is 100%. The occasional breakthrough is not proof of lack of efficacy. Just like a couple of dummies don’t define a large group.
and btw what does Rodgers mean by “alternative treatment”? Does he know something doctors don’t? Lol.
Not even close to a fact. It’s only a fact if you choose to do absolutely no research and believe individuals that have continually lied and been proven to do so. Lol. What is a fact is that the numbers on the effectiveness continue to trend in a way that says the vax is not working. Please do more than listen to Joe and the nightly news. Anybody who has a brain knows that the govt keeps changing the target. And anybody looking at factual data from Vaers and from countries who went to mass vaccination earlier than us can’t possibly hold your view and have a functioning brain.
Can you make your point without degrading those whos opinions differ from yours?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Waterboy said:
@ Caactorvike said:
@ greediron said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Tried to act like he was vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated, you are going to get COVID.
I received my booster yesterday.
Lol, sorry but gotta call out the bullshit. It doesn't matter if you are vaccinated or not, you are likely gonna get covid. Brandon Jacobs has been out for several weeks, comes back and has covid. How many vaxxed players and coaches where out last week. Chicago got it bad, everyone had to follow the unvaxxed protocols.
Quote: @greediron said:
Already considered it. And made that decision.
And as I said, your implication that vaccination will prevent you from getting covid is bullshit.
As to Rodgers, he is young and healthy and will likely be fine. He is still a class A dipshit and I hope GB loses every game. But Zimmer is vaxxed and been more of a dipshit about covid than Rodgers.
Of course it’s not bulllshit it’s FACT. If you are vaccinated your chances of getting COVID drop drastically. I think it’s by something around 92%. There are “breakthrough” cases of course—nothing is 100%. The occasional breakthrough is not proof of lack of efficacy. Just like a couple of dummies don’t define a large group.
and btw what does Rodgers mean by “alternative treatment”? Does he know something doctors don’t? Lol.
Not even close to a fact. It’s only a fact if you choose to do absolutely no research and believe individuals that have continually lied and been proven to do so. Lol. What is a fact is that the numbers on the effectiveness continue to trend in a way that says the vax is not working. Please do more than listen to Joe and the nightly news. Anybody who has a brain knows that the govt keeps changing the target. And anybody looking at factual data from Vaers and from countries who went to mass vaccination earlier than us can’t possibly hold your view and have a functioning brain.
Can you make your point without degrading those whos opinions differ from yours?
I can do that. I get into a mode where I just lace em up due to the coming attacks from the other side based on past discussions. I guess things are starting to become evident enough that the "deniers" are being vindicated making the other side a little less vitriolic. Sorry, and I'll try to clean it up.
thank you. you dont have to agree with them, you just have to remain civil in your disagreement.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ greediron said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ Waterboy said:
Hi Waterboy:
I had an epiphany about this discussion last night. I know you are trying to bring your views to the argument but keep in mind that there is only one group that can actually change their course of action at this time -- the unvaccinated such as yourself. I am vaccinated and boosted. Even if I suddenly changed my mind about the efficacy of the vaccine I am still already vaccinated; it is irreversible. So all your arguments, etc., can do no good -- you are only justifying your own decision -- you can't make the vaccinated reverse course. Maybe you feel personally attacked, etc. but really your only response is that you have looked at a whole spectrum of information and your risk assessment is that it is better to remain unvaccinated. While we, the vaccinated, hope we can convince the unvaccinated to modify their course, the unvaccinated can't change the course of the vaccinated because we have already cast off. Please keep in mind also, that we advocate because we think it will potentially save your life and, in comparison, nothing you can write can change what we have irreversibly already done.
Its an eloquent thought, but the unvaccinated aren't getting vaccinated for reasons that are emotional, not logical. They either choose to believe its harmful (which it isn't) or they don't want to be told what to do. It's that simple. 'I'm an American, I won't be forced to do anything!'. Riiiiight. Talk about entitlement. They continue to pivot to new rationale when prior rationale has been debunked.
So I respect the way you are debating, but it's useless. I've learned that during COVID. 58% of this country is vaccinated, its a GD joke. And its taken this long just to get to that number.
How the fuck do you know? Sorry, but that is your emotional opinion, not a logical statement.
I know because I talk to WAY too many people down here in Florida that won't get vaccinated. That's how the fuck I know. There's not a fucking thing to be logical about NOT GETTING VACCINATED.
I don't know how to respond to this other than to say, you need to read a lot more if you think the science is on your side. There's very little emotion in my viewpoint. Since I lost someone very close to me to Covid, the easiest path would be the emotional one to believe the vaccine will rescue all of us. It's clearly not the case, and it looks to be causing a lot of damage along the way, with much (very much) still unknown.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Anybody watching knows that the woke left will stop at nothing to have full control of our actions.
I am guessing I would be considered part of the "woke left" and I can guarantee you that I do not want to have full control of your actions -- nor do I know anyone in my circle that does. For instance, I believe in gay people should be able to marry another gay person if s/he chooses. I believe a woman should have control over their bodies (but I don't want to debate that here as then we get into my thoughts as to when a soul enters the body). I believe that all races and religions have the right to be treated equally. I also believe in free enterprise which means companies have the freedom to require mandates. So, I think we should stop with broad statements about the left and the right. It really is counterproductive to mending this country. Honestly, I don't believe you and GI are anti-vaccine for the same reasons. We are all individuals but as Americans somewhere, deep in the core, there is commonality -- one we should embrace.
|
