Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around.
Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows.
As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field!
I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.
Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers.
Quote: @jargomcfargo said:
Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around.
Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows.
As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field!
I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.
Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers.
Zims D needs to have bigger physical DBs to really shine IMO, they need to be able to bang at the LOS to take away those quick inside routes, but then have the ability to flip hips and get up field with their charges instead of this pussy zone that neither takes away the short routes nor the over the top stuff since the safeties are far to often required to play in the box to help the run support. PP should be ok, but a rotation of Dantzler and Breeland will not hold up unless we can get them matched up smaller receivers, unfortunately for Breeland, I dont know that he has a bang in his coverage repertoire, he does a nice job in run support, but doesnt seem eager to smash a WR at the line.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
And while I'm at it, I'd like to give MB some credit: he thought they'd play better, the O-line would play better and they did. I'm sure he didn't forecast the D playing quite as poorly as they did.
Well thanks. Rather have the win. But yeah, only Viking fans can predict an absolute blow out and then bitch about our performance in a game we should've won. Shut out Chandler Jones, Picked Murray twice, gave up only 1 sack while Hunter himself got three, penalized only 3 times, Dalvin ran for 150. Clearly they cleaned up the mess from week 1. That's the good thing.
Bad thing is we couldn't stop Murray. Like I said last week, defense is nearly irrelevant against a QB like that. If that's another QB, Vikings probably win this by 20.
Is it irrelevant against Murray or because the NFL is so tilted towards offense. Lots of scoring around the league from what I see.
But yes, Murray is alot like Wilson IMO. Or a modern Tark. Scrambles so well, keeps his eyes downfield. Puts the downfield defenders in such a bad spot, stay in coverage and give up a huge scramble, or support the run and leave the WR uncovered.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around.
Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows.
As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field!
I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.
Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers.
Zims D needs to have bigger physical DBs to really shine IMO, they need to be able to bang at the LOS to take away those quick inside routes, but then have the ability to flip hips and get up field with their charges instead of this pussy zone that neither takes away the short routes nor the over the top stuff since the safeties are far to often required to play in the box to help the run support. PP should be ok, but a rotation of Dantzler and Breeland will not hold up unless we can get them matched up smaller receivers, unfortunately for Breeland, I dont know that he has a bang in his coverage repertoire, he does a nice job in run support, but doesnt seem eager to smash a WR at the line.
I would say the NFL has made the physical dbs irrelevant. Zim doesn't like zone, but what can you do if the NFL keeps handcuffing the defenders? And man coverage is dangerous with a mobile QB, zone works much better against that type of threat.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around.
Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows.
As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field!
I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.
Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers.
Zims D needs to have bigger physical DBs to really shine IMO, they need to be able to bang at the LOS to take away those quick inside routes, but then have the ability to flip hips and get up field with their charges instead of this pussy zone that neither takes away the short routes nor the over the top stuff since the safeties are far to often required to play in the box to help the run support. PP should be ok, but a rotation of Dantzler and Breeland will not hold up unless we can get them matched up smaller receivers, unfortunately for Breeland, I dont know that he has a bang in his coverage repertoire, he does a nice job in run support, but doesnt seem eager to smash a WR at the line.
I would say the NFL has made the physical dbs irrelevant. Zim doesn't like zone, but what can you do if the NFL keeps handcuffing the defenders? And man coverage is dangerous with a mobile QB, zone works much better against that type of threat.
well zone got pissed all over as well, you can still run man on the receivers, and use your LBs and S to fill zones to help contain that QB... or just assign a spy on the QB as has been done for run thread QBs for 20 years. as far as physical DBs, they are still allowed to jam at the LOS and that has been a weakness for our D for the last couple years.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC.
This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears.
It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer, thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit, now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.
It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move, but he was out there again and against Green of all people. The zones were a joke against Murray, he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes, or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down, time and time again. What happened to zimmers love for man CBs? Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow, zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again. Bad scheme and bad execution. Thats on Zim IMO, his D, his players.
Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter... and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season. I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.
I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable... and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion. He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance. He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us. He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here. Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.
This place has gotten toxic lately. I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk... Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff. LOL
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC.
This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears.
It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer, thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit, now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.
It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move, but he was out there again and against Green of all people. The zones were a joke against Murray, he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes, or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down, time and time again. What happened to zimmers love for man CBs? Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow, zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again. Bad scheme and bad execution. Thats on Zim IMO, his D, his players.
Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter... and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season. I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.
I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable... and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion. He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance. He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us. He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here. Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.
This place has gotten toxic lately. I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk... Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff. LOL
Waynes played his only football here... IIRC he hasnt taken a real snap since he left, but honestly does taking high draft picks and having them pan out really show the genius of a coach? I would expect a coach that is touted as DB specialist to be turning more later round or undrafted guys into something instead of burning a lot of high round picks on the position.
as far as burning shit down.. the odds of this team making the playoffs from an 0-2 start are under 15% historically. a horse shit preseason campaign, 2 gut wrenching losses to start the season and what was a roster built for a championship is suddenly one that could start to get disassembled before the trade deadline and having ownership looking for a new GM or at least new coaches. I dont see any excuses made for Zimmer if he fails to make the playoffs again and the odds are heavily stacked against him with the start weve had and the schedule hes facing.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC.
This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears.
It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer, thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit, now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.
It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move, but he was out there again and against Green of all people. The zones were a joke against Murray, he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes, or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down, time and time again. What happened to zimmers love for man CBs? Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow, zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again. Bad scheme and bad execution. Thats on Zim IMO, his D, his players.
Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter... and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season. I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.
I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable... and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion. He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance. He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us. He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here. Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.
This place has gotten toxic lately. I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk... Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff. LOL
Waynes played his only football here... IIRC he hasnt taken a real snap since he left, but honestly does taking high draft picks and having them pan out really show the genius of a coach? I would expect a coach that is touted as DB specialist to be turning more later round or undrafted guys into something instead of burning a lot of high round picks on the position.
as far as burning shit down.. the odds of this team making the playoffs from an 0-2 start are under 15% historically. a horse shit preseason campaign, 2 gut wrenching losses to start the season and what was a roster built for a championship is suddenly one that could start to get disassembled before the trade deadline and having ownership looking for a new GM or at least new coaches. I dont see any excuses made for Zimmer if he fails to make the playoffs again and the odds are heavily stacked against him with the start weve had and the schedule hes facing.
There is a 17th game now and an extra playoff team. An 0-2 start sucks, but it's not the death knell it was in past years especially when one of our losses was non-conference.
If you want undrafted or late round guys, what about Harrison Hand? He played well as a rookie? Cam Dantzler was good last year as a 3rd round pick. I don't think Zimmer is the one lobbying for early round CBs as it is Spielman looking at his hand-picked coach and realizing picking defensive players will be a good investment if they are BPA. The problem isn't Zimmer on the latest first round busts... unless you think he's responsible for Mike Hughes' neck injuries and Jeff Gladney's attitude towards women...
When Zimmer has had willing students the results have been great (Newman, Rhodes, Waynes, Hunter, Kendricks, etc). Some guys like Captain Munnerlyn and Mac Alexander took some time to buy in, but ended up being really good players when they figured out listening to Zimmer would be good for them. I think Breeland might be trying to do too much or hasn't bought in to what Zimmer has been preaching... he needs to get tight with Patrick Peterson who seems like he's all-in on this team.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC.
This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears.
It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer, thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit, now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.
It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move, but he was out there again and against Green of all people. The zones were a joke against Murray, he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes, or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down, time and time again. What happened to zimmers love for man CBs? Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow, zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again. Bad scheme and bad execution. Thats on Zim IMO, his D, his players.
Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter... and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season. I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.
I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable... and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion. He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance. He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us. He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here. Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.
This place has gotten toxic lately. I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk... Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff. LOL
Waynes played his only football here... IIRC he hasnt taken a real snap since he left, but honestly does taking high draft picks and having them pan out really show the genius of a coach? I would expect a coach that is touted as DB specialist to be turning more later round or undrafted guys into something instead of burning a lot of high round picks on the position.
as far as burning shit down.. the odds of this team making the playoffs from an 0-2 start are under 15% historically. a horse shit preseason campaign, 2 gut wrenching losses to start the season and what was a roster built for a championship is suddenly one that could start to get disassembled before the trade deadline and having ownership looking for a new GM or at least new coaches. I dont see any excuses made for Zimmer if he fails to make the playoffs again and the odds are heavily stacked against him with the start weve had and the schedule hes facing.
There is a 17th game now and an extra playoff team. An 0-2 start sucks, but it's not the death knell it was in past years especially when one of our losses was non-conference.
If you want undrafted or late round guys, what about Harrison Hand? He played well as a rookie? Cam Dantzler was good last year as a 3rd round pick. I don't think Zimmer is the one lobbying for early round CBs as it is Spielman looking at his hand-picked coach and realizing picking defensive players will be a good investment if they are BPA. The problem isn't Zimmer on the latest first round busts... unless you think he's responsible for Mike Hughes' neck injuries and Jeff Gladney's attitude towards women...
the extra game was why I rounded it up from 12% to 15%, historically poor starts dont lead to the playoffs is all I was saying. IMO with the schedule in front of them its going to take a real strong step up in both coaching and playing to overcome this start.
Hand isnt on the field and it took until the 4th quarter for Dantzler to make his appearance and that was only after Breeland got a case of Rhodesitis ( tendency to get injured once he gets exposed a couple times) I think Rick is taking his cues from Zimmer when it comes to defensive players, and drafting undersized CBs hasnt really panned out for the Vikings, regardless of who is pulling the trigger, but there was a quote by RS about 5 years ago or so when asked about his new success in the draft ( obviously outside of the first round) and he said it came from having a coach who could communicate what he wanted in players... so based on that, yeah, you have to look at the early selection as a zimmer deal, including the Gladney failure since he came with warning tags.
I also dont buy that Spielman picked Zimmer. When that decision was made the Wilfs were still rumored to be leanining on parcells and we know the relationship between the big tuna and Zim goes way back and bill had lobbied for Zimmer to get a HC shot in the past.
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