Quote: @greediron said:
@ Skodin said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Kentis said:
^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome… B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  Wikipedia…!? B)
This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country.
I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers. You don't want to get the shots. Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers. Stick to your guns. You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick.
Are you ready to take that stand against everybody that bucks the odds or does stupid shit and gets hurt or sick? Tobacco users that get cancer or other, obese that get diabetes, careless sluts that get pregnant? I am not saying which way I support, ( Barr likely has a pretty good idea ) but the door has to swing both ways. That position can't be simply about covid, if we are going to withhold medical care for those that put themselves into a situation, then we can't overlook other obvious lapses of judgement or we will cease to be a civilization.
Yes, there should be penalties by the market for those who are driving up costs with selfish decisions. I would love a market place that rewards the right actions and penalizes bad ones. You don't want to get into a statistical analysis here on smoking, food, and the impact it has the healthcare system and ultimately the economy.
BTW easy with the "careless sluts" comment, WTF. How many people are born out of wedlock, not of a planned pregnancy? A significant majority, including I am sure plenty of people here. You are insulting a lot of women (wives, sisters, mothers) by stating that, not very Christian of you to do.
That hyperbole was likely intentional to drive home the point. But thanks for the lecture about being something you obviously don't care about.
What? "Something I don't care about", man, I question your reading comprehension.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Kentis said:
^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome… B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…? Wikipedia…!? B)
This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country.
I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers. You don't want to get the shots. Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers. Stick to your guns. You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick.
Are you ready to take that stand against everybody that bucks the odds or does stupid shit and gets hurt or sick? Tobacco users that get cancer or other, obese that get diabetes, careless sluts that get pregnant? I am not saying which way I support, ( Barr likely has a pretty good idea ) but the door has to swing both ways. That position can't be simply about covid, if we are going to withhold medical care for those that put themselves into a situation, then we can't overlook other obvious lapses of judgement or we will cease to be a civilization.
Yes, there should be penalties by the market for those who are driving up costs with selfish decisions. I would love a market place that rewards the right actions and penalizes bad ones. You don't want to get into a statistical analysis here on smoking, food, and the impact it has the healthcare system and ultimately the economy.
BTW easy with the "careless sluts" comment, WTF. How many people are born out of wedlock, not of a planned pregnancy? A significant majority, including I am sure plenty of people here. You are insulting a lot of women (wives, sisters, mothers) by stating that, not very Christian of you to do.
Why would you equate all unplanned or pregnancies out of wedlock to my comment?
Are you saying that morally casual people who are careless with their birth control practices dont exist? Just as people who are excessively careless with their other health and diet conditions are not the same as the guy who smokes a couple good cigars a year, or the person who indulges in foods that are not very healthy once in a while. There are plenty of women who take responsible precautions, and as such would be who I was describing. There are extremes and if we are supposed to consider withholding health care from unvaxxed because of their decision then shouldnt all people who take extreme risks be held to the same standards and denied health care for their associated ailments, afflictions, and or unintended consequences? The proposal on the table wasn't to charge them more, I am pretty sure we will see that coming already, it is that the unvaccinated shouldnt be treated at all. I say fine, actions have consequences, but lets apply the standard fairly and evenly.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Kentis said:
^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome… B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…? Wikipedia…!? B)
This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country.
I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers. You don't want to get the shots. Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers. Stick to your guns. You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick.
Are you ready to take that stand against everybody that bucks the odds or does stupid shit and gets hurt or sick? Tobacco users that get cancer or other, obese that get diabetes, careless sluts that get pregnant? I am not saying which way I support, ( Barr likely has a pretty good idea ) but the door has to swing both ways. That position can't be simply about covid, if we are going to withhold medical care for those that put themselves into a situation, then we can't overlook other obvious lapses of judgement or we will cease to be a civilization.
Yes, there should be penalties by the market for those who are driving up costs with selfish decisions. I would love a market place that rewards the right actions and penalizes bad ones. You don't want to get into a statistical analysis here on smoking, food, and the impact it has the healthcare system and ultimately the economy.
BTW easy with the "careless sluts" comment, WTF. How many people are born out of wedlock, not of a planned pregnancy? A significant majority, including I am sure plenty of people here. You are insulting a lot of women (wives, sisters, mothers) by stating that, not very Christian of you to do.
Wow, so if I have Type 2 Diabetes due to bad eating habits and happen to be a minority, you're advocating denying me access to medical care?? Hokay..... lol I don't think that's going to go over real well.
Quote: @medaille said:
I know it’s pretty easy to be tribal and start saying
sarcastic things out of our wounds, but I think we need to be cautious about
ending up on a path which results in an even worse healthcare system than the one
we already have. In zero realities do we
want to be heading down a pathway towards less people having access to
healthcare or increasing costs for certain groups of people, because we all
know that the major healthcare organizations would shun healthcare for as many
people as possible if it made them a buck, and we shouldn’t give them that
opportunity. If you need any evidence of
this, just look at the Purdue Pharma case that’s in the news recently, where
their lust for profits was responsible for many of the 400,000+ opioid deaths.
70% of our population supports universal healthcare or
medicare for all or whatever you want to call it. Let’s move towards better healthcare rather
than lowering the bar.
I dont know if we'll see socialized medicine in this country, in our life-times. I highly doubt it.
Some may contend Medicare/Caid and SS are just that, but it's not universal and the elderly will need it as they cant pivot at this point in their lives.
I dont link health care profits to the call of duty to vax for the good of the country and those around you. And I certainly support going after Big Pharma for Opiod and other major transgressions.
People certainly have a choice.
But if you dont vax? You're harming this country and its recovery. IMO you should pay more for certain services and health care/insurance premiums. Delta airlines is just one higher profile company doing just that, and they wont be the last.
Unvaxed Delta employees will pay + 200/mos in increased premiums starting November.
I believe I read where the avg icu care for COVID patient is at least $50k. And thats not taking into account the hospital resources being siphoned away from heart-attack, accidents, cancer a+ the strain/stress on our medical and first responder community.
This is simply not sustainable - and it's not even cold/flu season in most of the country - when we're all cooped up inside.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
10% of the teachers at our school are Covid positive.
Both my kids got exposed today.One teacher caught covid, got Pfizer, and has it again. She is early 40s. Her sister is dying of it. We have NO hospital beds anywhere in our region. Zero, zilch nada. Her sister got sent how with a bottle of O2 and a bunch of other stuff and basically told good luck.
I have great empathy for kids, parents and teachers today. It's a really difficult situation we unfortunately find ourselves in.
Turns out I was exposed Tuesday as well. Yeah for me!!!
Fully masked KN95 though so here's hoping!!!
Good luck, and hope things turn out well. Just as a point for those that don't know it... Along with KN95 being the only mask that is really of any benefit for the virus, the way you handle the mask as you take it on and off and position it is equally as important. Medical professionals know this. The average citizen has absolutely no clue. You need to think of it like you were handling chicken right before you mask up. Make sure your hands are washed and you're being very careful to put a totally clean mask on. Anything and everything you touch before putting it on, while it's on, and any adjustments you make are subject to contamination and could actually make things worse. In some ways it's very much like creating a sterile field. So, if you're going to wear the masks, try to do it the right way. I can say for a fact that 95% or more of the people out there are not helping themselves by masking up. The people that know these things know this.
On a totally serious note, we can all disagree as to how to handle this thing. But today marks one year since I lost my brother to covid. I don't wish this illness on anyone, though others may not feel that way. God bless and good luck.
Yup, wearing one is like a walking laboratory. I'm about as good with them as I can be. They're cheap now days so its not so financially painful to use new ones all the time. I like them because if used properly, I can knock down a decent hunk of any viral load from incoming threats as well as contain any that I might be producing.
Cloth doesn't do much of anything with anything aerosoled but they looked good didn't they?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I know it’s pretty easy to be tribal and start saying
sarcastic things out of our wounds, but I think we need to be cautious about
ending up on a path which results in an even worse healthcare system than the one
we already have. In zero realities do we
want to be heading down a pathway towards less people having access to
healthcare or increasing costs for certain groups of people, because we all
know that the major healthcare organizations would shun healthcare for as many
people as possible if it made them a buck, and we shouldn’t give them that
opportunity. If you need any evidence of
this, just look at the Purdue Pharma case that’s in the news recently, where
their lust for profits was responsible for many of the 400,000+ opioid deaths.
70% of our population supports universal healthcare or
medicare for all or whatever you want to call it. Let’s move towards better healthcare rather
than lowering the bar.
I dont know if we'll see socialized medicine in this country, in our life-times. I highly doubt it.
Some may contend Medicare/Caid and SS are just that, but it's not universal and the elderly will need it as they cant pivot at this point in their lives.
I dont link health care profits to the call of duty to vax for the good of the country and those around you. And I certainly support going after Big Pharma for Opiod and other major transgressions.
People certainly have a choice.
But if you dont vax? You're harming this country and its recovery. IMO you should pay more for certain services and health care/insurance premiums. Delta airlines is just one higher profile company doing just that, and they wont be the last.
Unvaxed Delta employees will pay + 200/mos in increased premiums starting November.
I believe I read where the avg icu care for COVID patient is at least $50k. And thats not taking into account the hospital resources being siphoned away from heart-attack, accidents, cancer a+ the strain/stress on our medical and first responder community.
This is simply not sustainable - and it's not even cold/flu season in most of the country - when we're all cooped up inside.
The vaccinations save the world crowd all want you to believe one thing. That if we vax, all is well. At this point in time, that point is very much up in the air as the virus evolves, and as some of the earliest results on vaccinations show them both waning, and not effective at all against some of the variants. You all state your hopes and early positive results as fact, and it is the fatal flaw in your argument that you refuse to accept. You all COULD be right. Maybe it is the one magic bullet to this whole thing. I think that's the fearful side of people speaking and the ones that want to wish this virus away. Many of us believe the magic bullet that is the vaccine is much more myth than reality.
If you want to not treat or cover people that refuse to vax, then I want to not cover people that are obese, don't workout, or have low Vitamin D levels. That way I can free up more hospital beds than you ever dreamed of. All of these are totally controllable and have a choice component to them. Eating, Exercise, and healthy living styles would beat this virus down to nothing in addition to heart attacks, strokes, cancer, and many other afflictions. But see, you'd all just rather rant and rave about Covid, because there's a mythical magic potion that just makes it go away. The problem is it's just a lazy way to problem solve and make yourself feel better. It's not proven or practical, and just because some initial numbers look good, you all may need to turn up the common sense portion of your brain, and know that this thing isn't going away with a magic shot. I wish it were the case too, but I'm not even sure it isn't making things much worse in the long-term. In fact, from what I've read and believe, we're going to be fighting this thing for the l-t, and a 100% vaccination rate likely doesn't do much to change that.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I know it’s pretty easy to be tribal and start saying
sarcastic things out of our wounds, but I think we need to be cautious about
ending up on a path which results in an even worse healthcare system than the one
we already have. In zero realities do we
want to be heading down a pathway towards less people having access to
healthcare or increasing costs for certain groups of people, because we all
know that the major healthcare organizations would shun healthcare for as many
people as possible if it made them a buck, and we shouldn’t give them that
opportunity. If you need any evidence of
this, just look at the Purdue Pharma case that’s in the news recently, where
their lust for profits was responsible for many of the 400,000+ opioid deaths.
70% of our population supports universal healthcare or
medicare for all or whatever you want to call it. Let’s move towards better healthcare rather
than lowering the bar.
I dont know if we'll see socialized medicine in this country, in our life-times. I highly doubt it.
Some may contend Medicare/Caid and SS are just that, but it's not universal and the elderly will need it as they cant pivot at this point in their lives.
I dont link health care profits to the call of duty to vax for the good of the country and those around you. And I certainly support going after Big Pharma for Opiod and other major transgressions.
People certainly have a choice.
But if you dont vax? You're harming this country and its recovery. IMO you should pay more for certain services and health care/insurance premiums. Delta airlines is just one higher profile company doing just that, and they wont be the last.
Unvaxed Delta employees will pay + 200/mos in increased premiums starting November.
I believe I read where the avg icu care for COVID patient is at least $50k. And thats not taking into account the hospital resources being siphoned away from heart-attack, accidents, cancer a+ the strain/stress on our medical and first responder community.
This is simply not sustainable - and it's not even cold/flu season in most of the country - when we're all cooped up inside.
If we don’t get universal healthcare, it’s not because
that’s the will of the people, it’s because our government and healthcare
systems are corrupt.
For all this talk about how much of a burden the unvaxxed
are, we sure as hell aren’t talking about what the healthcare community is
doing for us and if it’s enough.
- Have
we developed a robust American-made supply chain for critical items?
- Have
we altered our procedures such that our pandemic inventory of critical
items won’t be rotting in warehouses?
- Fauci
having funded gain of function research for the development of viruses in
Wuhan that’s very similar to Covid19 is clearly a conflict of
interest. Combined with his
continual lying, why has he not been replaced with a more trustworthy
person. Surely he can’t be the only
expert that we have in America.
- Where
are all the studies we should be doing regarding every potential treatment
option? If our healthcare system
was doing it’s job, we would definitively know if Ivermectin and every
other option was effective or not.
It is quack science for people to be running around yelling horse
paste and saying that there’s no science that proves it’s effective. If there’s over a hundred studies on
Ivermectin and Covid and almost all of them suggest it’s beneficial, but
our scientists don’t think the studies are good enough, then our science
community has failed us by choosing to not do the science.
- Why
are there no available ICU beds?
Shouldn’t they have been planning for a potential resurgence? If you have a system that only works
with perfect compliance, then you have a shitty system.
- Why
haven’t they vaccinated everyone in the entire world that wants a vaccine
yet? At $20 a dose, we could
vaccinate every person on the planet, 2 shots, for $320 Billion, which is
half the US military budget for one year.
Remember when India was begging for more vaccines, and they
couldn’t get any and they were begging for us to share the recipe for the
vaccine with them and they would build the vaccines in their own
facilities because we’re only giving vaccines to countries that are rich,
and then Bill Gates told them to pound sand, and then the Delta variant
mutated in unvaccinated India and spread to over here? We’re more concerned with forcing people
who don’t want the vaccine to get the vaccine then we are with getting
everyone who wants a vaccine a vaccine.
Much of the world hasn’t gotten a single shot yet, and we’re already
talking about getting a booster shot every 6 months.
- Vitamin
D. Remember all those studies about
Vitamin D and the correlation between Vitamin D deficiency and Covid? Why haven’t we all been given the option
to get free Vitamin D? Or beyond
that, why not give everyone a multivitamin for all the vitamins that would
help improve immune systems in general?
- Remember
when South Korea would force everyone who had Covid to quarantine at home,
and then as a way of helping them to do that, they would deliver them
enough high quality food and essentials so they wouldn’t need to leave
their house to go get food. Why
haven’t we done that yet?
Obviously, we’re more resistant to forcing people to quarantine,
but why not make it as easy as possible?
- Let’s
say an average person gets a positive Covid test, regardless as to whether
they were vaccinated or not, is it clear what they are supposed to
do? Are you supposed to go to the
hospital? Are you supposed to tough
it out? Are there drugs or
supplements you are supposed to be taking?
At what point do you go in?
Do you wait until you’re on deaths door? I feel like there should be a plan. The only thing that’s clear is to get a
vaccine. I feel like the actual
plan is just get the vaccine. If
you do get Covid, stay at home, and if you’re about to die, come in and
we’ll stick a tube in you. That’s
probably inaccurate, but no one’s really given me any other information to
suggest otherwise.
- Regarding
all the doctors and nurses that don’t want to get the vaccine, and we’re
talking about firing them because they hate science. Is there really nothing we can do
besides fire them? Can they just do
telehealth or something? Can they
work on broken bones for clients that have negative tests or review x-rays
from their home office or something?
Is firing them at the same time that we need more people the most
really the best option?
@ medaille,
I'm not sure you're arguing this, but its certainly not an either/or. There's much on that list I'd love to see happen and should happen.
This country has lost it's way on so many fronts and across many POTUS' and political beliefs.
We off-shored way to much infrastructure and found ourselves behind the 8 ball on PPE and now on computer chips too.
What's next???
Quote: @medaille said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Kentis said:
^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome… B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…? Wikipedia…!? B)
This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country.
I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers. You don't want to get the shots. Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers. Stick to your guns. You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick.
Are you ready to take that stand against everybody that bucks the odds or does stupid shit and gets hurt or sick? Tobacco users that get cancer or other, obese that get diabetes, careless sluts that get pregnant? I am not saying which way I support, ( Barr likely has a pretty good idea ) but the door has to swing both ways. That position can't be simply about covid, if we are going to withhold medical care for those that put themselves into a situation, then we can't overlook other obvious lapses of judgement or we will cease to be a civilization. ...
The bulk of my family in MN is not vaccinated. I'm essentially just waiting to hear of them getting sick/dying and at this point I'll grieve but it was preventable. They cast their lot.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
How many people do you think are dying from Covid? The odds are massively in favor of them not dying.
About every two days more people than 9/11.
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