Strib: Clock is ticking on Cousins

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@pattersaur said:

@JR44 said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@JR44 said:

@JR44 I guess you had your eyes closed for these passion less moments.

I am guessing you had your eyes closed through the first 6 games of the season last year, every game against a good team and pretty much for most of the times they have shown Kirk sitting on the sidelines by himself, not looking at film or talking to teammates.  I do not think that Everson Griffen's comments last year were completely random or that he is the only player who thinks that way.  I think Kirk is a nice guy, but I do not think he dedicated to football and winning as many of the top QBs in the league.  

https://www.twincities.com/2020/10/18/bo...f-the-way/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2856...ot-winning

Stephen A. Smith revealed during Wednesday's episode of First Take on ESPN that there were some in Washington who believed Cousins was more interested in accumulating impressive stats than he was winning games.
"When he was in Washington, you had players that literally said, 'He ain't about winning, he's about numbers.' And they didn't say that as an indictment against him as a bad person, because he's considered a relatively nice guy. We've met him, we did the show. Very, very nice guy. They was just talking about the fact that when you separate guys of his talent, that intangible that you're looking for, the great ones have it, he doesn't. He's a safety guy. He's a guy that wants to do the safe thing because he'd rather not mess up than take chances and really, really excel."

Pretty impressive group of sources you got there. Everson Griffen, Bob Sansevere and Bleacher Report. Very impressive, it must be all true.

Lol!  Yeah what would a former teammate, local media and a national guy know, I am sure everyone here is much more tied into the team.  A quote from Jefferson, who must a non-legit source as well.  

"Kirk and Joe throw similar balls. They're not the strongest-armed, but they're going to get it to you exactly where you need them to throw it. But the thing about Joe that's a little bit different...I feel like Joe has a little more swagger. He has that confidence on the field, and he's not scared to get hit. I feel like as a quarterback, that's a big trait to have. Especially to be as young as he is. He's a phenomenal quarterback."
While it seemed as though Jefferson was praising Burrow in that moment more than he was shading Cousins, he then told Cowherd he wasn't particularly surprised when rumors suggested the team was interested in potentially drafting Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields. 
"We have to build on for after Kirk, or whatever the case may be," he said. "Having Justin Fields brings a little more pressure to other teams by having a dominant quarterback like he is."

I just tried posting these same comments from Justin in another thread. It’s not the end of the world but it ain’t exactly effusive praise either. 

I get that Kirk has his strong supporters and I’m glad he does. Ultimately, all Vikings fans want the same thing. 

But this board is kind of funny lately. Two weeks before the draft many posters were saying the Vikings wouldn’t draft a QB (waste of a pick, no way, etc). Then after the draft it was “Yeah! Smart to get a middle round guy as backup.” Then after it came out that we had strong interest in Fields in the first it was, “well, we didn’t do it so...”
Then after it was posted the Wilfs might have been driving that move it was, “no way”.

Well... all of that has happened. And Guru just confirmed the Wilfs wanted a QB.

I’m encouraged that the team seems to no longer be all-in on Kirk beyond 2021. 

I think the Wilfs mostly wanted a QB for two reasons: there was NOTHING behind Cousins before they drafted Mond. Ridiculously thin. And everyone, including the staff, knows that the NFL is trending toward a different type of QB. Accuracy will always be at a premium, but athleticism and versatility so that an offense can be more unpredictable is the trend. And Cousins isn't going anywhere for 2 more years, draft a guy and let him learn and see what can happen.

I completely agree. My point is more that 3 months ago/1 month ago/2 weeks ago there were people in our midst who either didn’t realize what you just said, or didn’t think the Vikings realized it. I’m pumped the Vikings are at least opening the door a bit to move on from Cousins. We need options. Previous offseasons that was not the case. 

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@JR44 said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@JR44 said:

@JR44 I guess you had your eyes closed for these passion less moments.

I am guessing you had your eyes closed through the first 6 games of the season last year, every game against a good team and pretty much for most of the times they have shown Kirk sitting on the sidelines by himself, not looking at film or talking to teammates.  I do not think that Everson Griffen's comments last year were completely random or that he is the only player who thinks that way.  I think Kirk is a nice guy, but I do not think he dedicated to football and winning as many of the top QBs in the league.  

https://www.twincities.com/2020/10/18/bo...f-the-way/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2856...ot-winning

Stephen A. Smith revealed during Wednesday's episode of First Take on ESPN that there were some in Washington who believed Cousins was more interested in accumulating impressive stats than he was winning games.
"When he was in Washington, you had players that literally said, 'He ain't about winning, he's about numbers.' And they didn't say that as an indictment against him as a bad person, because he's considered a relatively nice guy. We've met him, we did the show. Very, very nice guy. They was just talking about the fact that when you separate guys of his talent, that intangible that you're looking for, the great ones have it, he doesn't. He's a safety guy. He's a guy that wants to do the safe thing because he'd rather not mess up than take chances and really, really excel."

Pretty impressive group of sources you got there. Everson Griffen, Bob Sansevere and Bleacher Report. Very impressive, it must be all true.

Lol!  Yeah what would a former teammate, local media and a national guy know, I am sure everyone here is much more tied into the team.  A quote from Jefferson, who must a non-legit source as well.  

"Kirk and Joe throw similar balls. They're not the strongest-armed, but they're going to get it to you exactly where you need them to throw it. But the thing about Joe that's a little bit different...I feel like Joe has a little more swagger. He has that confidence on the field, and he's not scared to get hit. I feel like as a quarterback, that's a big trait to have. Especially to be as young as he is. He's a phenomenal quarterback."
While it seemed as though Jefferson was praising Burrow in that moment more than he was shading Cousins, he then told Cowherd he wasn't particularly surprised when rumors suggested the team was interested in potentially drafting Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields. 
"We have to build on for after Kirk, or whatever the case may be," he said. "Having Justin Fields brings a little more pressure to other teams by having a dominant quarterback like he is."

Find Rick’s remarks on the matter. Paraphrasing he said, there is no competition involving Kirk, he’s QB 1. The competition is behind him between Browning, Stanley and Mond. They’ll see what happens and if someday one of them develops into Russell Wilson they’ll cross that bridge then.

Correct, Mond isn't taking Kirk's job this year.  He needs time to develop before we know whether he's a long-time NFL backup or a potential starter.  That said, the Vikings were absolutely looking for a rookie QB to be a potential starter as early as 2022.  The Vikings did a ton of homework on the top 6-8 QBs in this draft...  Spielman certainly said Kirk is our starting QB this season.  He didn't make any claims that will be the case beyond this season.

This is simply the Viking Organization building a "Complete" team for the present and the future...no more, no less.  It's the fans that build all the drama around this issue...

[Guest]

@PurpleCrush said:
@"BarrNone55" said:

@JR44 said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@Vikergirl said:
It is ticking though. He is not a long-term plan. He has more OL help now. It's time for results. Here's hoping things work out.

What if he goes deep into the playoffs, is he long term then? Kirk has not been the problem.

When you QB consistently melts in every game against a team with a winning record, then yes, he is a big part of the problem.  The rumor is that the Wilfs were the ones who put the orders in for a QB early in the draft and I would imagine they are getting tired of writing out big checks that are not resulting in wins.  

Where is this rumor coming from? I've heard nothing of the sort. Link? Tweet? Podcast? 

At some point, fans need to understand that...ahem...FOOTBALL IS A TEAM GAME AND QB WINS IS NOT A STAT...

I saw that online on Instagram, with the rumor being passed along by Darren Wolfson apparently...although I don't know how reliable it is.vikesinsiderThe Vikings ownership "drove the bus" in terms of taking a QB relatively high. There was a "strong recommendation from the Wilf family to really look strongly at a quarterback really really high." 

Per: Darren Wolfson.

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-...ownership/

[Guest]

@"BarrNone55" said:

Fans just want wins.  If the wins aren't happening, then the finger pointers are out, and QBs get most of the attention (especially at 30 mil per year).  Just win, and there will be plenty of love for Kirk.

[Guest]

“I am told by multiple people that ownership drove the bus, not necessarily on that specific quarterback, Kellen Mond, but on the idea of taking a quarterback relatively high. And if it came down to it, even taking a quarterback in the first round,” Wolfson said. “The Wilf’s didn’t want Spielman to wait until round six to take a quarterback. They didn’t want it to be like last year: waiting until round seven, snagging, Nate Stanley.”

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@JR44 said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@JR44 said:

@JR44 I guess you had your eyes closed for these passion less moments.

I am guessing you had your eyes closed through the first 6 games of the season last year, every game against a good team and pretty much for most of the times they have shown Kirk sitting on the sidelines by himself, not looking at film or talking to teammates.  I do not think that Everson Griffen's comments last year were completely random or that he is the only player who thinks that way.  I think Kirk is a nice guy, but I do not think he dedicated to football and winning as many of the top QBs in the league.  

https://www.twincities.com/2020/10/18/bo...f-the-way/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2856...ot-winning

Stephen A. Smith revealed during Wednesday's episode of First Take on ESPN that there were some in Washington who believed Cousins was more interested in accumulating impressive stats than he was winning games.
"When he was in Washington, you had players that literally said, 'He ain't about winning, he's about numbers.' And they didn't say that as an indictment against him as a bad person, because he's considered a relatively nice guy. We've met him, we did the show. Very, very nice guy. They was just talking about the fact that when you separate guys of his talent, that intangible that you're looking for, the great ones have it, he doesn't. He's a safety guy. He's a guy that wants to do the safe thing because he'd rather not mess up than take chances and really, really excel."

Pretty impressive group of sources you got there. Everson Griffen, Bob Sansevere and Bleacher Report. Very impressive, it must be all true.

Lol!  Yeah what would a former teammate, local media and a national guy know, I am sure everyone here is much more tied into the team.  A quote from Jefferson, who must a non-legit source as well.  

"Kirk and Joe throw similar balls. They're not the strongest-armed, but they're going to get it to you exactly where you need them to throw it. But the thing about Joe that's a little bit different...I feel like Joe has a little more swagger. He has that confidence on the field, and he's not scared to get hit. I feel like as a quarterback, that's a big trait to have. Especially to be as young as he is. He's a phenomenal quarterback."
While it seemed as though Jefferson was praising Burrow in that moment more than he was shading Cousins, he then told Cowherd he wasn't particularly surprised when rumors suggested the team was interested in potentially drafting Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields. 
"We have to build on for after Kirk, or whatever the case may be," he said. "Having Justin Fields brings a little more pressure to other teams by having a dominant quarterback like he is."

Find Rick’s remarks on the matter. Paraphrasing he said, there is no competition involving Kirk, he’s QB 1. The competition is behind him between Browning, Stanley and Mond. They’ll see what happens and if someday one of them develops into Russell Wilson they’ll cross that bridge then.

Correct, Mond isn't taking Kirk's job this year.  He needs time to develop before we know whether he's a long-time NFL backup or a potential starter.  That said, the Vikings were absolutely looking for a rookie QB to be a potential starter as early as 2022.  The Vikings did a ton of homework on the top 6-8 QBs in this draft...  Spielman certainly said Kirk is our starting QB this season.  He didn't make any claims that will be the case beyond this season.

Absolutely, I hope it works out so at the very least they can get some leverage back. If Mond or one of the others develops greatly they will have an alternative, even if Kirk plays great but can't agree on a reasonable long term deal. You always need to look for good players at all positions.

[Guest]

Kirk’s van is almost full…  B)  

[Guest]

Odds are low that Mond becomes the heir to the starting QB position. But it is good to see ownership looking to the future; something the GM and coaches may be less likely to do.

Looking at Jefferson's recent quote, "Kirk and Joe throw similar balls. They're not the strongest-armed, but they're going to get it to you exactly where you need them to throw it. But the thing about Joe that's a little bit different...I feel like Joe has a little more swagger. He has that confidence on the field, and he's not scared to get hit. I feel like as a quarterback, that's a big trait to have. Especially to be as young as he is. He's a phenomenal quarterback.". I have to point out that may be why Kirk played all year and Joe only played a few games. At least it seems like a salient point to me!

My expectation for this season is a Viking team with a very potent offense and an improved defense and special teams.
There are always a lot of ifs, but if the defense can come back to form, this team appears to have true potential to be a contender. And I expect Cousins to have a very good year. 

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@PurpleCrush said:
@"BarrNone55" said:

@JR44 said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@Vikergirl said:
It is ticking though. He is not a long-term plan. He has more OL help now. It's time for results. Here's hoping things work out.

What if he goes deep into the playoffs, is he long term then? Kirk has not been the problem.

When you QB consistently melts in every game against a team with a winning record, then yes, he is a big part of the problem.  The rumor is that the Wilfs were the ones who put the orders in for a QB early in the draft and I would imagine they are getting tired of writing out big checks that are not resulting in wins.  

Where is this rumor coming from? I've heard nothing of the sort. Link? Tweet? Podcast? 

At some point, fans need to understand that...ahem...FOOTBALL IS A TEAM GAME AND QB WINS IS NOT A STAT...

I saw that online on Instagram, with the rumor being passed along by Darren Wolfson apparently...although I don't know how reliable it is.vikesinsiderThe Vikings ownership "drove the bus" in terms of taking a QB relatively high. There was a "strong recommendation from the Wilf family to really look strongly at a quarterback really really high." 

Per: Darren Wolfson.

That is true. I don't think it necessarily means Kirk is being kicked out the door, but they aren't going to keep stringing along for 2-3 years deals/extensions. I personally think Kirk only will remain in MN if he signs a legitimate extension that gives the Vikings back a little leverage. If you ask those in the league what Cousins is going to command in 2023 its likely between $40-45M/yr fully guaranteed. I'm not convinced the Vikings are doing that. 

 

Yah, I'm sure these fully guaranteed contacts aren't sitting well with ownership anymore. Might be more palatable if the team had more success?

Either way, they cant assume KC is going to play nice at the negotiating table. Its too bad they didnt have a clean shot at an upper echelon QB this past draft.  Nothing like a meaningless, year end win vs Bears to torpedo the draft order. 

All that said, lets see what they can do with the pieces they have, the cupboard sure aint bare here. It made perfect sense to try and build around KC for today. 

Hopefully KC plays nice, allows them to draft a legit shot at a QBOTF next year, one that can curate a little bit.

Now if KC and the Vikings make it to a SB? The whole narrative changes in a hurry. Winning cures just about everything - except the Cap. 

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@PurpleCrush said:
@"BarrNone55" said:

@JR44 said:

@VikeMike52 said:

@Vikergirl said:
It is ticking though. He is not a long-term plan. He has more OL help now. It's time for results. Here's hoping things work out.

What if he goes deep into the playoffs, is he long term then? Kirk has not been the problem.

When you QB consistently melts in every game against a team with a winning record, then yes, he is a big part of the problem.  The rumor is that the Wilfs were the ones who put the orders in for a QB early in the draft and I would imagine they are getting tired of writing out big checks that are not resulting in wins.  

Where is this rumor coming from? I've heard nothing of the sort. Link? Tweet? Podcast? 

At some point, fans need to understand that...ahem...FOOTBALL IS A TEAM GAME AND QB WINS IS NOT A STAT...

I saw that online on Instagram, with the rumor being passed along by Darren Wolfson apparently...although I don't know how reliable it is.vikesinsiderThe Vikings ownership "drove the bus" in terms of taking a QB relatively high. There was a "strong recommendation from the Wilf family to really look strongly at a quarterback really really high." 

Per: Darren Wolfson.

That is true. I don't think it necessarily means Kirk is being kicked out the door, but they aren't going to keep stringing along for 2-3 years deals/extensions. I personally think Kirk only will remain in MN if he signs a legitimate extension that gives the Vikings back a little leverage. If you ask those in the league what Cousins is going to command in 2023 its likely between $40-45M/yr fully guaranteed. I'm not convinced the Vikings are doing that. 

 

Yah, I'm sure these fully guaranteed contacts aren't sitting well with ownership anymore. Might be more palatable if the team had more success?

Either way, they cant assume KC is going to play nice at the negotiating table. Its too bad they didnt have a clean shot at an upper echelon QB this past draft.  Nothing like a meaningless, year end win vs Bears to torpedo the draft order. 

All that said, lets see what they can do with the pieces they have, the cupboard sure aint bare here. It made perfect sense to try and build around KC for today. 

Hopefully KC plays nice, allows them to draft a legit shot at a QBOTF next year, one that can curate a little bit.

Now if KC and the Vikings make it to a SB? The whole narrative changes in a hurry. Winning cures just about everything - except the Cap. 

This team as is it right now,  if healthy,  will be no where near a top QB next year,  even with our brutal schedule this team should be picking now lower than the mid 20s and if they are then we may be looking at a much larger rebuild than just a QB due to coaching/scheme changes.