Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
68 billion dollar increase in US GDP and 176,000 new jobs in the US, as a result of the trade agreement. Thats what was meant by paying for the wall, again I never expected Mexico would write a check, why would they and how could they have been forced to?
That was not what he meant. The only way you come to that conclusion is if you are a mind reader. Nice try rewriting history. You are asking the questions to the wrong person.
Ask Trump
Again you are citing US growth numbers and US job (assuming the numbers are correct) as how the wall was paid for right?
Let me guess... these jobs were taken from Mexico. Good grief. Hint USMCA has more than Mexico. So I guess Canada also paid for the wall right?
The lengths people will go to defend stupidity.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
As far as border control, I am sure the most effective means would not be approved by the majority, even the non lethal methods that have been developed would raise hell with the sensitive pussified nation we have become...fuck, the notion of a wall, regardless of the cost, has peoples panties in wad....and honestly is it really about the cost or who is paying for it? Look at the cost of that wall compared to the bull shit spending that is included in this pork barrel so called covid relief bill and try to say we couldn't afford to build that wall. We can't have a wall that many on the border want, but we can build a rail line for the uber rich in silicon valley? Please.
Many on the border don't want the wall.
Even if we assume many did are you trying to compare that with a virus that has killed 500000 people in a year and counting?
You are better than this.
Sometimes I feel you just want to stir things up.
Building a wall is simply not practical. You can make all the excuses you want.
No one said we could not afford to build the wall. There was resentment in funding it because it was a stupid idea built on a lie to garner easy votes.
The fact that you are here still making excuses for it is really mind boggling
Wtf are you reading, I didn't compare the wall to deaths. I am comparing the relatively low cost of the wall with the trillions being pissed away in the name of covid relief. Its bull shit and anybody that thinks otherwise is a fool. Less than 10% of that bill is going to those really affected, the rest is pork barreling at its finest so if people were really pissed about the cost of that wall this covid bill should have them fuming. Point is the opposition to the wall was never about the cost, it was about who wanted and the wall.
I'll rather be a fool and get 10% in the form of a vaccine and get others vaccinated to increase my chances potentialy those of others against the virus and stop the spread of a deadly virus than a 'genius' that thinks Mexico would pay/paid for a wall that was funded 100% by the USA.
We finally agree on something.. yes the opposition against the wall was never the cost (i already stated that). It was because it was a stupid idea from someone who had no idea what he was talking about.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
At the bold, great solution, how does that work? What proof will be required, and who will determine that. Have any good proposals been put forward in your opinion. I am interested in what a good program will look like, count me in.
As far as cheap labor, you think debtor prisons or work camps could perhaps help the poor decision makers, those are thing that have been used in the past. Is any grower receiving subsidies utilizing cheap labor, driving a new pickup fall into the category of "tit suckers"[sic]?
Quote: @mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now claim that Mexico paid for the wall via nafta. That is simply nonsense and a simple search will tell you that.
4. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
Yeah, I like jimmy but this was a strange thread. Good thing I've never done that. :p
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
At the bold, great solution, how does that work? What proof will be required, and who will determine that. Have any good proposals been put forward in your opinion. I am interested in what a good program will look like, count me in.
As far as cheap labor, you think debtor prisons or work camps could perhaps help the poor decision makers, those are thing that have been used in the past. Is any grower receiving subsidies utilizing cheap labor, driving a new pickup fall into the category of "tit suckers"[sic]?
Yep. He also carefully forgot Trump said most of the people "Mexico sends" are bad people and rapists. So unless Trump did not actually mean that in JimmyinSD speak but we have already been told they are bad people.
Biden was not going to make immigrants citizens "by the stroke of a pen". That's another half truth you are spreading.
Now back to the original bold issue that is what exactly is being done to those already in the US...
Here is a summary of what the existing path to citizenship is including some challenges and possible solutions for those already in the US illegally..
1. By offering them a path to citizenship they are being encouraged to be documented in the system. Thats the first step of any successful measure.
2. Part of being a citizen includes at least one extensive background check
3. You also have to do immunizations
4. Before you become a resident/ citizen you have to fill out paperwork periodically
5. Until you become a resident/citizen in order to work you have to apply for a work permit (last I checked it was $475) every year.
6. The biggest bottleneck in this process is the incredible red tape and lack of accountability in USCIS. It can take up to 6 months to renew a work permit. Remember it lasts one year. Sometimes it takes less that 7. Its a crap shoot do you have to do so well in advance. If you have a corporate job fir example and your permit expires you get let go period. This office needs serious help and grossly understaffed
8. Because if the personnel issues at USCiS immigrants seldom get a fare process. You literally are an alien number (yes thats the real term). You think the DMV lines are long? Think again. Also its never the USCISs fault all their forms tell you to plan ahea even if all you did was wait as they told you. That's all you get. I must admit there have been some changes example online registration for appointments but there is way more to do.
9. Documents frequently fall through the cracks/get lost and yes... its not USCIS's fault. Your case specialist can't do anything about it anyway so you need to come back guess when your next appointment is? Yep in 6 plus months. Remember you have a work permit that needs to be renewed so thats another $475. All these provide easy avenues for people who are trying to be legal to just quit or give up. Again we may not want to hear it but fixing immigration involves a long and hard look at how USCIS works. The current structure is a heavy deterrent and does not encourage anyone to come forward. That is the issue.
10. A large contigent of illegals here came in legally. They either over stayed their visa or gave up in the process. Everyone who came into the US by plane had a legal visa before entering else they would have been deported at the airport. This is not just a Mexico problem
So like I said before, please do some research before posting.
Quote: @mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
68 billion dollar increase in US GDP and 176,000 new jobs in the US, as a result of the trade agreement. Thats what was meant by paying for the wall, again I never expected Mexico would write a check, why would they and how could they have been forced to?
That was not what he meant. The only way you come to that conclusion is if you are a mind reader. Nice try rewriting history. You are asking the questions to the wrong person.
Ask Trump
Again you are citing US growth numbers and US job (assuming the numbers are correct) as how the wall was paid for right?
Let me guess... these jobs were taken from Mexico. Good grief. Hint USMCA has more than Mexico. So I guess Canada also paid for the wall right?
The lengths people will go to defend stupidity.
NAFTA was a disaster for farmers. Trump fixed many of the wrongs.
Let me give you a real example. Canada dumps milk on America like crazy. They have a quota system there that only allows so much fluid milk per farmer which creates an artificial price floor. Canada and America had agreed upon what dairy products could and couldn't be sold to each other in the 90s NAFTA agreement. After the NAFTA was struck Canada invented a new "class" of milk so they could dump unlimited quantities of ultra refined milk products on American processors used in cheese and butter making causing American prices to plunge. It was and is complete bullshit. If you're going to invent trade loopholes there should be a means to correct them.
I will always maintain that Trump did positive things for America. Was it worth the constant barrage of tweets? Thats for later generations to figure out.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
68 billion dollar increase in US GDP and 176,000 new jobs in the US, as a result of the trade agreement. Thats what was meant by paying for the wall, again I never expected Mexico would write a check, why would they and how could they have been forced to?
That was not what he meant. The only way you come to that conclusion is if you are a mind reader. Nice try rewriting history. You are asking the questions to the wrong person.
Ask Trump
Again you are citing US growth numbers and US job (assuming the numbers are correct) as how the wall was paid for right?
Let me guess... these jobs were taken from Mexico. Good grief. Hint USMCA has more than Mexico. So I guess Canada also paid for the wall right?
The lengths people will go to defend stupidity.
NAFTA was a disaster for farmers. Trump fixed many of the wrongs.
Let me give you a real example. Canada dumps milk on America like crazy. They have a quota system there that only allows so much fluid milk per farmer which creates an artificial price floor. Canada and America had agreed upon what dairy products could and couldn't be sold to each other in the 90s NAFTA agreement. After the NAFTA was struck Canada invented a new "class" of milk so they could dump unlimited quantities of ultra refined milk products on American processors used in cheese and butter making causing American prices to plunge. It was and is complete bullshit. If you're going to invent trade loopholes there should be a means to correct them.
I will always maintain that Trump did positive things for America. Was it worth the constant barrage of tweets? Thats for later generations to figure out.
Not for corn and bean farmers, from 2018 to 2020, Trump came to IA and dumped a pant loads of cash to shore up his base. They really hate communism in these parts.
Trump sends nearly $1 billion to Iowa farmers to help stem trade losses. It's the second-largest amount, nationallyDonnelle Eller
Here is what the Cato institute said about USMCA
USMCA: A Marginal NAFTA Upgrade at a High Cost
Quote:....The USMCA is a marginal improvement over NAFTA—better in some areas, worse in others, about the same in most. Relative to the existing NAFTA, there are pros and cons. Though there is greater liberalization in goods trade, it is marginally to imperceptibly so. Taking into consideration the negative changes, especially to the rules of origin, it’s not obvious that USMCA is much of an upgrade from NAFTA. But it’s possible—even probable—that some of the less directly liberalizing, technical and procedural provisions, such as those governing “Digital Trade,” “Customs and Trade Facilitation,” “State‐Owned Enterprises” and others, utilized in ways not completely apparent now, could lead to lower trade costs down the road.
The only real certainty is that the USMCA is better than a U.S. withdrawal from NAFTA without a replacement agreement. But that couldn’t happen, right?
As stated above by @ BigAl99, USMCA did not help farmers in the midwest. It was all talk that ended up mostly the same as NAFTA (again which all knew needed some changes). Typical Trump noise with no substance when you look at the detail.
NAFTA was branded as disastrous and replaced with something that was largely the same, marginally better in some ways and worse than NAFTA in others.
The poor USMCA coupled with the useless and stupid trade war crippled the farmers in the Midwest to the point that the Trump administration had to bail them out a few times just to have them almost break even.
These bailouts account for about 40% of AG income, don't forget the ethanol waivers. If it wasn't so dishonest, it could be a SNL skit listening to Grassley bloviate about how essential ethanol production is on one hand, then blame renewable energy sources for the Texas grid power fail. Anything for a Buck Chuck.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mblack said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ mblack said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
68 billion dollar increase in US GDP and 176,000 new jobs in the US, as a result of the trade agreement. Thats what was meant by paying for the wall, again I never expected Mexico would write a check, why would they and how could they have been forced to?
That was not what he meant. The only way you come to that conclusion is if you are a mind reader. Nice try rewriting history. You are asking the questions to the wrong person.
Ask Trump
Again you are citing US growth numbers and US job (assuming the numbers are correct) as how the wall was paid for right?
Let me guess... these jobs were taken from Mexico. Good grief. Hint USMCA has more than Mexico. So I guess Canada also paid for the wall right?
The lengths people will go to defend stupidity.
NAFTA was a disaster for farmers. Trump fixed many of the wrongs.
Let me give you a real example. Canada dumps milk on America like crazy. They have a quota system there that only allows so much fluid milk per farmer which creates an artificial price floor. Canada and America had agreed upon what dairy products could and couldn't be sold to each other in the 90s NAFTA agreement. After the NAFTA was struck Canada invented a new "class" of milk so they could dump unlimited quantities of ultra refined milk products on American processors used in cheese and butter making causing American prices to plunge. It was and is complete bullshit. If you're going to invent trade loopholes there should be a means to correct them.
I will always maintain that Trump did positive things for America. Was it worth the constant barrage of tweets? Thats for later generations to figure out.
Not for corn and bean farmers, from 2018 to 2020, Trump came to IA and dumped a pant loads of cash to shore up his base. They really hate communism in these parts.
Trump sends nearly $1 billion to Iowa farmers to help stem trade losses. It's the second-largest amount, nationally Donnelle Eller
Yep. One slack jawed yokel's 'socialism' sure changes when said slack jawed yokel benefits. Like I said, we live in a world of hypocrites that don't recognize they are hypocrites. Left, Right, Democrat and Republican.
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