Posts: 425
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Borders are necessary. I don't think the argument is 'we don't need border control'. Hell, Canada has border control and they are very intense about it. So lets just knock away the 'we don't need ANY border control' crowd and the 'we shouldn't let ANYONE in the country from outside the borders' crowd so you can have real dialogue. This will make up most intelligent people and certainly people that aren't on each fringe. Start there.
Yes, people are very hypocritical. We know this. Politicians suck. We also know this. But we've gotten by on this system of illegal immigrants doing manual labor jobs that American citizens don't want to do. This country has benefited greatly from some of the best that the world has to offer migrating here. And there are also dangers that go with letting some people emigrate here. All of this is true. And this topic is very complicated. So you bring up an example that is one of the dangers. Agreed. But it seems like you are baiting here.
You took the issue to extreme. No one said we don't need border control. Your post is beyond misleading and to simply put it baiting:
- There was and has been border control before Trump (using him because this where the issue got out of hand) and there will be after him. He is not the first one to try to solve the issue.
- Everyone agrees we need to do more at the border. No one (at least most) disagrees with the problem we disagree on the how.
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
Living behind walls is not the same thing. This has to be one of the dumbest analogies ever. Anyway, people can still climb over the fences around the rich (your phrase not mine) people's houses which is the main issue with the wall. A rope and tall ladder is all you need.
- Why spend money to build a very very expensive wall and then have people patrol the same wall to make sure people don't climb over or destroy it? You will still have to hire border patrol staff, give them the needed tools example more patrol vehicles.
- How about giving border patrol the tools needed to patrol the border (maybe add staff) and enhance the less costly fencing that has been proven to be effective and also needs repair from abuse? There will be abuse be it a fence or wall (Just one of the many ideas being floated)
Quote: @"mblack" said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"mblack" said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
As far as border control, I am sure the most effective means would not be approved by the majority, even the non lethal methods that have been developed would raise hell with the sensitive pussified nation we have become...fuck, the notion of a wall, regardless of the cost, has peoples panties in wad....and honestly is it really about the cost or who is paying for it? Look at the cost of that wall compared to the bull shit spending that is included in this pork barrel so called covid relief bill and try to say we couldn't afford to build that wall. We can't have a wall that many on the border want, but we can build a rail line for the uber rich in silicon valley? Please.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
As far as border control, I am sure the most effective means would not be approved by the majority, even the non lethal methods that have been developed would raise hell with the sensitive pussified nation we have become...fuck, the notion of a wall, regardless of the cost, has peoples panties in wad....and honestly is it really about the cost or who is paying for it? Look at the cost of that wall compared to the bull shit spending that is included in this pork barrel so called covid relief bill and try to say we couldn't afford to build that wall. We can't have a wall that many on the border want, but we can build a rail line for the uber rich in silicon valley? Please.
Many on the border don't want the wall.
Even if we assume many did are you trying to compare that with a virus that has killed 500000 people in a year and counting?
You are better than this.
Sometimes I feel you just want to stir things up.
Building a wall is simply not practical. You can make all the excuses you want.
No one said we could not afford to build the wall. There was resentment in funding it because it was a stupid idea built on a lie to garner easy votes.
The fact that you are here still making excuses for it is really mind boggling
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"mblack" said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now claim that Mexico paid for the wall via nafta. That is simply nonsense and a simple search will tell you that.
4. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
Quote: @"mblack" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
As far as border control, I am sure the most effective means would not be approved by the majority, even the non lethal methods that have been developed would raise hell with the sensitive pussified nation we have become...fuck, the notion of a wall, regardless of the cost, has peoples panties in wad....and honestly is it really about the cost or who is paying for it? Look at the cost of that wall compared to the bull shit spending that is included in this pork barrel so called covid relief bill and try to say we couldn't afford to build that wall. We can't have a wall that many on the border want, but we can build a rail line for the uber rich in silicon valley? Please.
Many on the border don't want the wall.
Even if we assume many did are you trying to compare that with a virus that has killed 500000 people in a year and counting?
You are better than this.
Sometimes I feel you just want to stir things up.
Building a wall is simply not practical. You can make all the excuses you want.
No one said we could not afford to build the wall. There was resentment in funding it because it was a stupid idea built on a lie to garner easy votes.
The fact that you are here still making excuses for it is really mind boggling
Wtf are you reading, I didn't compare the wall to deaths. I am comparing the relatively low cost of the wall with the trillions being pissed away in the name of covid relief. Its bull shit and anybody that thinks otherwise is a fool. Less than 10% of that bill is going to those really affected, the rest is pork barreling at its finest so if people were really pissed about the cost of that wall this covid bill should have them fuming. Point is the opposition to the wall was never about the cost, it was about who wanted and the wall.
Quote: @"mblack" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"mblack" said:
- Many (myself included) don't think building a wall across the entire border (as was promised) makes any sense especially when Mexico is not paying for it (as was promised and re-iterated multiple times).
This is why Trumpers are cult members: they NEVER blame the guy for anything he's said and not lived up to. Even people that have voted for former Presidents disagree at times and call them out on their unfulfilled promises. Not Trumpers. Its always 'what about...?' or 'look over there!' Its just stupid.
I was never dumb enough to think he meant they would write a check and actually pay for it, he reworked a horrible nafta trade deal that should put more money in US coffers that would be used to keep unwanted illegals out and pay for that wall.
As far as migrant labor, no issues here at all as long as they go through channels, hell I say if they can prove they will come here and be law abiding and productive workers give them a legit path to citizenship, but don't just make every illegal here a citizen with the stroke of a pen, make them register and follow a path, and make those that don't pay dearly.
Our country needs cheap labor, and that doesn't just go for foreign labor, the same goes for US born people who make poor decisions. No reason why a high school drop out isn't out there picking strawberries or what ever with those migrant workers. Maybe it would reinstill some of what made this country great in future generations instead of becoming a nation of tit babies.
He said Mexico will pay for it. Not indirectly and many people went with it... how naive. By the way the nafta you said he renegotiated did not pay for the wall. Mexico did not lose any money that was diverted to the wall.
The last I checked the wall was paid by us Trump imposed some tarrifs but I bet he does not know how tarrifs work ( i hope you do). Imposing tarrifs means anyone buying a Mexican product pays more. So the Americans pay for the wall via terrifs. Again there was no provision in his nafta deal for the wall so please stop with the lame talking points.
Lastly, it is really pointless having a discussion when people don't even bother to own or revisit their earlier statements but just move on or make more excuses.
1. Your title was beyond misleading
2. When I point out that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall you say you were never dumb to think Mexico would write a check. Did he make the statement or not?
3. You now seem to compare a useless wall to virus that has ravaged the country and is till doing do.
I hope you see the trend.
68 billion dollar increase in US GDP and 176,000 new jobs in the US, as a result of the trade agreement. Thats what was meant by paying for the wall, again I never expected Mexico would write a check, why would they and how could they have been forced to?
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