Quote: @PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
I see the only way the Vikings trade Cousins if another team offers a king's ransom...I mean an enormous offer...
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
For me... it's a little bit of both. I'm not going to argue that he didn't play well during the last 10 games of the season (he did). However, it seems like we're all back to excusing his brutally awful play from the first 6 games of the year.
But don't you have to ask why? Don't you have to acknowledge that whatever was causing the problem with Cousins early on was largely solved? No doubt he played great the last 10 games. He also played great last year. So why did he start out this year so poorly? I have no idea. But I suspect the team does. Could've been anything: an adjustment to changes Kubiak made, line calls, protections, stems, drops. Remember, there was no preseason.
It would be different if he played well, then like crap, then well again, then like crap. But you can pretty much divide bad Kirk and good Kirk at the bye. And I use "pretty much" loosely because I'm talking generally.
I trade Cousins for no man....not named DeShaun. But don't think that's not in the back of Rick's head right now. You dangle Dalvin and Da Griddy in front of DeShaun you might convince him to play one-team hardball with Houston.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
For me... it's a little bit of both. I'm not going to argue that he didn't play well during the last 10 games of the season (he did). However, it seems like we're all back to excusing his brutally awful play from the first 6 games of the year. I trade Cousins for no man....not named DeShaun. But don't think that's not in the back of Rick's head right now. You dangle Dalvin and Da Griddy in front of DeShaun you might convince him to play one-team hardball with Houston.
Can confirm.
Source: Am an evil Lakers fan B)
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
For me... it's a little bit of both. I'm not going to argue that he didn't play well during the last 10 games of the season (he did). However, it seems like we're all back to excusing his brutally awful play from the first 6 games of the year.
But don't you have to ask why? Don't you have to acknowledge that whatever was causing the problem with Cousins early on was largely solved? No doubt he played great the last 10 games. He also played great last year. So why did he start out this year so poorly? I have no idea. But I suspect the team does. Could've been anything: an adjustment to changes Kubiak made, line calls, protections, stems, drops. Remember, there was no preseason.
It would be different if he played well, then like crap, then well again, then like crap. But you can pretty much divide bad Kirk and good Kirk at the bye. And I use "pretty much" loosely because I'm talking generally.
I trade Cousins for no man....not named DeShaun. But don't think that's not in the back of Rick's head right now. You dangle Dalvin and Da Griddy in front of DeShaun you might convince him to play one-team hardball with Houston.
It's pressure, he's wound too tight, too analytical. It crumbles around him and I haven't seen the team do much in response to his crumbling except join him in it.
Spielman had cap room and a weird mess at the QB position post a 13-3 year. I do not blame him for going after Cousins, on paper, he's perfect for Minnesota. But that's the problem, he kind of resembles everything Minnesota, which doesn't equate to championships.
He played very well in the Saints game, but I am confident that we will look back at that game as his best and biggest moment. That's great for him personally but this franchise has been focused on winning a super bowl and that is not good enough.
Quote: @Skodin said:
It's pressure, he's wound too tight, too analytical. It crumbles around him and I haven't seen the team do much in response to his crumbling except join him in it.
Spielman had cap room and a weird mess at the QB position post a 13-3 year. I do not blame him for going after Cousins, on paper, he's perfect for Minnesota. But that's the problem, he kind of resembles everything Minnesota, which doesn't equate to championships.
He played very well in the Saints game, but I am confident that we will look back at that game as his best and biggest moment. That's great for him personally but this franchise has been focused on winning a super bowl and that is not good enough.
I think the run first game plan that everyone loves to complain about is there to take a lot of the pressure off his shoulders, ease him into the game and put him in the Play Action framework that he excels at. I think if you put him into a pass to open up the run type of "modern" offense, that a lot of people are clamoring for, we'd see his limitations more aggressively.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Skodin said:
It's pressure, he's wound too tight, too analytical. It crumbles around him and I haven't seen the team do much in response to his crumbling except join him in it.
Spielman had cap room and a weird mess at the QB position post a 13-3 year. I do not blame him for going after Cousins, on paper, he's perfect for Minnesota. But that's the problem, he kind of resembles everything Minnesota, which doesn't equate to championships.
He played very well in the Saints game, but I am confident that we will look back at that game as his best and biggest moment. That's great for him personally but this franchise has been focused on winning a super bowl and that is not good enough.
I think the run first game plan that everyone loves to complain about is there to take a lot of the pressure off his shoulders, ease him into the game and put him in the Play Action framework that he excels at. I think if you put him into a pass to open up the run type of "modern" offense, that a lot of people are clamoring for, we'd see his limitations more aggressively.
The run first is there because Zimmer is head coach. AND we have either the top or one of the top running backs in the league. Why not ride that beast? There were so many times this year where I laughed about how Cook should have been tackled for a loss.
Our D lost the season. Even average D and we're a playoff team. Get us in the top ten like we've been for years and we could be playing this weekend.
Kirk isn't perfect, but who besides Mahomes is right now? Even King Brady threw 3 interceptions in the championship game. If it wasn't for the packers being the chokers they are they'd be playing Sunday.
I like Kirk, but not at the cap hit its going to cost over the next two seasons and then where are we at? What's the plan after that? I was just looking at the listing of starting QB's in this league and I can count 11 guys that are no brainer better players and about 4 or 5 you could make an argument for. Kirk is a middle of the road, solid QB, who was probably the worst QB in the league through week seven this season and on the verge of being benched.
If you tell me right now the 49ers give us Garopollo and the 12th pick (Kyle Pitts?) in any package for Kirk on top of the cap money saved over the next two seasons....that would be a tough deal to pass up
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
Depends who you ask. Nobody thinks Kirk is perfect, he isn't. But he didn't limit the team this season. Injuries and flawed personnel on the defensive side did.
So while you can probably do better than Kirk you probably need to run it back with him to see what happens this season. So while I heard they have no interest in trading him maybe seeing what the Rams offered opened a slight door for someone to feel desperate? But at the end of the day trading Kirk creates more problems than it solves. Top 5 QBs never come available, top 10 QBs hardly come available, and top 15 QBs move once and awhile.
Aside from Spielman/Zimmer needing a strong season I don't think the Wilf's would be thrilled to get the call suggesting they sunk $45M into a single season (2020) of Kirk Cousins.
While the Vikings did redo Cousins' deal prior to this season, he had 30 mil coming no matter what.
So they really did NOT sink 45M into Cousins in 2020. They gave him an extra 10 mil so far.
In 3 years, Cousins has received 94M from the Vikings which is 31.333M per year and not really that much.
The Wilfs received 255M in revenue sharing in 2017.
They received 274.3M in revenue sharing in 2018.
They received 296M in revenue sharing in 2019.
They also had gate receipts and other revenue.
It is doubtful that they have to spend too much of their own money anymore and the value of the team has skyrocketed.
Worrying about the Wilfs paying players who then leave should be the least of anyone's worry.
They literally paid him $40M in cash last year, that is what Kirk took to the bank. The signing bonus is a single check and not deferred in this case. The $94M over 3 is right. But is bad business and a competitive disadvantage to deal Kirk. Not saying they can't choke down the money, they can. But it kills trust with the owners and there is no reason to have effectively paid $20M for Kirk to be elsewhere unless you're getting a significantly better QB.
That sounds reasonable but the fact remains the money is not coming out their pockets due to the revenue sharing and other revenue they received.
If they did trade Cousins now, it would be because they do not want to extend him again after this deal and do not want to try and absorb that $45M cap hit in 2022 that they created for themselves.
Extending past 2022 when he will be 35 when the 2023 season starts is extremely foolish. There is no chance he gets any better and it is more likely he gets even less mobile than he is now (which is pretty awful actually). Cousins has been very fortunate to avoid injury as well. How long can that keep up? Knock on wood.
Taking a $20M dead money cap hit is not a big deal when you realize you save $45M in cap space in 2022 and $11M in cap space in 2021.
In the end, paying Cousins $94M over three years is not exorbitant. That is the final arbiter. How they divvied it up is irrelevant.
I mean they gave him $26M in cash his first year and $28M in cash his second year.
You are now saying that because they gave him $40M in cash his third year they would not be happy if he was moved.
But nothing was said about the cash layout those first two years. Interesting.
Is the idea the Wilfs would "not be happy if he was moved" after paying x dollars just about money spent - or about the idea that they were assured by Spielman that Cousins is "the guy", and would dislike another change in direction?
Probably a blend of both. The Wilfs preach stability and continuity. So after going through a tumultuous period after Bridgewater they convinced ownership that Kirk was the guy. Now you're going back to them to advocate for a change? If you have a through plan of how you are going to improve the QB position, then I get it. But I don't see why the Wilfs would sign off on trading Kirk just to add some draft picks and a worse QB. At this point Spielman/Zimmer won't be choosing the next QB. That could change but I am pretty sure Kirk, Zimmer, and Spielman are all tied together to varying degrees.
The bold is where it is at right now unfortunately. They are in an odd position of needing to make some changes but won't for at least another year. I don't think this will end well.
In my opinion, trading away Cousins for any scenario that doesn’t involve Watson as our new QB is a terrible idea. Jimmy G isn’t nearly as good as Cousins, which is why San Fran would love to have him. Setting aside the serious injury problems for Jimmy, his play is more erratic than Cousins.
Cousins is one of the best QB’s in the league and the Vikings are lucky to have him. He’s severely underrated by many of our fans. We lost vital starters on defense this year right out of the gate with Pierce and Hunter. Losing Hunter in a year where we had just let our second best pass rusher walk hurt doubly so. We have the offensive weapons and QB in place. This could be a championship team. They just need a much improved pass rush (which is attainable with our current roster healthy) and a little line help on O and they are competitive.
Watson has a surprisingly decent contract in place. If something could be worked out, it makes sense. Otherwise, short of Rogers coming available, there isn’t another QB out there better than Cousins. He easily has 5 plus years left the way it’s going. He’s a tough dude and durable. That alone is hard to find.
The only issue with Kirk is his contract. Personally, I’ve seen enough to offer him a longer term deal that is more cap friendly. It would require real commitment though. I’d be confident I could win a title with the guy if I took care to build a complete team around the him.
Watson or long term commitment (with a more cap friendly contract) to Cousins would be my play.
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