Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
Depends who you ask. Nobody thinks Kirk is perfect, he isn't. But he didn't limit the team this season. Injuries and flawed personnel on the defensive side did.
So while you can probably do better than Kirk you probably need to run it back with him to see what happens this season. So while I heard they have no interest in trading him maybe seeing what the Rams offered opened a slight door for someone to feel desperate? But at the end of the day trading Kirk creates more problems than it solves. Top 5 QBs never come available, top 10 QBs hardly come available, and top 15 QBs move once and awhile.
Aside from Spielman/Zimmer needing a strong season I don't think the Wilf's would be thrilled to get the call suggesting they sunk $45M into a single season (2020) of Kirk Cousins.
While the Vikings did redo Cousins' deal prior to this season, he had 30 mil coming no matter what.
So they really did NOT sink 45M into Cousins in 2020. They gave him an extra 10 mil so far.
In 3 years, Cousins has received 94M from the Vikings which is 31.333M per year and not really that much.
The Wilfs received 255M in revenue sharing in 2017.
They received 274.3M in revenue sharing in 2018.
They received 296M in revenue sharing in 2019.
They also had gate receipts and other revenue.
It is doubtful that they have to spend too much of their own money anymore and the value of the team has skyrocketed.
Worrying about the Wilfs paying players who then leave should be the least of anyone's worry.
They literally paid him $40M in cash last year, that is what Kirk took to the bank. The signing bonus is a single check and not deferred in this case. The $94M over 3 is right. But is bad business and a competitive disadvantage to deal Kirk. Not saying they can't choke down the money, they can. But it kills trust with the owners and there is no reason to have effectively paid $20M for Kirk to be elsewhere unless you're getting a significantly better QB.
That sounds reasonable but the fact remains the money is not coming out their pockets due to the revenue sharing and other revenue they received.
If they did trade Cousins now, it would be because they do not want to extend him again after this deal and do not want to try and absorb that $45M cap hit in 2022 that they created for themselves.
Extending past 2022 when he will be 35 when the 2023 season starts is extremely foolish. There is no chance he gets any better and it is more likely he gets even less mobile than he is now (which is pretty awful actually). Cousins has been very fortunate to avoid injury as well. How long can that keep up? Knock on wood.
Taking a $20M dead money cap hit is not a big deal when you realize you save $45M in cap space in 2022 and $11M in cap space in 2021.
In the end, paying Cousins $94M over three years is not exorbitant. That is the final arbiter. How they divvied it up is irrelevant.
I mean they gave him $26M in cash his first year and $28M in cash his second year.
You are now saying that because they gave him $40M in cash his third year they would not be happy if he was moved.
But nothing was said about the cash layout those first two years. Interesting.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
Depends who you ask. Nobody thinks Kirk is perfect, he isn't. But he didn't limit the team this season. Injuries and flawed personnel on the defensive side did.
So while you can probably do better than Kirk you probably need to run it back with him to see what happens this season. So while I heard they have no interest in trading him maybe seeing what the Rams offered opened a slight door for someone to feel desperate? But at the end of the day trading Kirk creates more problems than it solves. Top 5 QBs never come available, top 10 QBs hardly come available, and top 15 QBs move once and awhile.
Aside from Spielman/Zimmer needing a strong season I don't think the Wilf's would be thrilled to get the call suggesting they sunk $45M into a single season (2020) of Kirk Cousins.
While the Vikings did redo Cousins' deal prior to this season, he had 30 mil coming no matter what.
So they really did NOT sink 45M into Cousins in 2020. They gave him an extra 10 mil so far.
In 3 years, Cousins has received 94M from the Vikings which is 31.333M per year and not really that much.
The Wilfs received 255M in revenue sharing in 2017.
They received 274.3M in revenue sharing in 2018.
They received 296M in revenue sharing in 2019.
They also had gate receipts and other revenue.
It is doubtful that they have to spend too much of their own money anymore and the value of the team has skyrocketed.
Worrying about the Wilfs paying players who then leave should be the least of anyone's worry.
They literally paid him $40M in cash last year, that is what Kirk took to the bank. The signing bonus is a single check and not deferred in this case. The $94M over 3 is right. But is bad business and a competitive disadvantage to deal Kirk. Not saying they can't choke down the money, they can. But it kills trust with the owners and there is no reason to have effectively paid $20M for Kirk to be elsewhere unless you're getting a significantly better QB.
That sounds reasonable but the fact remains the money is not coming out their pockets due to the revenue sharing and other revenue they received.
If they did trade Cousins now, it would be because they do not want to extend him again after this deal and do not want to try and absorb that $45M cap hit in 2022 that they created for themselves.
Extending past 2022 when he will be 35 when the 2023 season starts is extremely foolish. There is no chance he gets any better and it is more likely he gets even less mobile than he is now (which is pretty awful actually). Cousins has been very fortunate to avoid injury as well. How long can that keep up? Knock on wood.
Taking a $20M dead money cap hit is not a big deal when you realize you save $45M in cap space in 2022 and $11M in cap space in 2021.
In the end, paying Cousins $94M over three years is not exorbitant. That is the final arbiter. How they divvied it up is irrelevant.
I mean they gave him $26M in cash his first year and $28M in cash his second year.
You are now saying that because they gave him $40M in cash his third year they would not be happy if he was moved.
But nothing was said about the cash layout those first two years. Interesting.
Is the idea the Wilfs would "not be happy if he was moved" after paying x dollars just about money spent - or about the idea that they were assured by Spielman that Cousins is "the guy", and would dislike another change in direction?
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
Depends who you ask. Nobody thinks Kirk is perfect, he isn't. But he didn't limit the team this season. Injuries and flawed personnel on the defensive side did.
So while you can probably do better than Kirk you probably need to run it back with him to see what happens this season. So while I heard they have no interest in trading him maybe seeing what the Rams offered opened a slight door for someone to feel desperate? But at the end of the day trading Kirk creates more problems than it solves. Top 5 QBs never come available, top 10 QBs hardly come available, and top 15 QBs move once and awhile.
Aside from Spielman/Zimmer needing a strong season I don't think the Wilf's would be thrilled to get the call suggesting they sunk $45M into a single season (2020) of Kirk Cousins.
While the Vikings did redo Cousins' deal prior to this season, he had 30 mil coming no matter what.
So they really did NOT sink 45M into Cousins in 2020. They gave him an extra 10 mil so far.
In 3 years, Cousins has received 94M from the Vikings which is 31.333M per year and not really that much.
The Wilfs received 255M in revenue sharing in 2017.
They received 274.3M in revenue sharing in 2018.
They received 296M in revenue sharing in 2019.
They also had gate receipts and other revenue.
It is doubtful that they have to spend too much of their own money anymore and the value of the team has skyrocketed.
Worrying about the Wilfs paying players who then leave should be the least of anyone's worry.
They literally paid him $40M in cash last year, that is what Kirk took to the bank. The signing bonus is a single check and not deferred in this case. The $94M over 3 is right. But is bad business and a competitive disadvantage to deal Kirk. Not saying they can't choke down the money, they can. But it kills trust with the owners and there is no reason to have effectively paid $20M for Kirk to be elsewhere unless you're getting a significantly better QB.
That sounds reasonable but the fact remains the money is not coming out their pockets due to the revenue sharing and other revenue they received.
If they did trade Cousins now, it would be because they do not want to extend him again after this deal and do not want to try and absorb that $45M cap hit in 2022 that they created for themselves.
Extending past 2022 when he will be 35 when the 2023 season starts is extremely foolish. There is no chance he gets any better and it is more likely he gets even less mobile than he is now (which is pretty awful actually). Cousins has been very fortunate to avoid injury as well. How long can that keep up? Knock on wood.
Taking a $20M dead money cap hit is not a big deal when you realize you save $45M in cap space in 2022 and $11M in cap space in 2021.
In the end, paying Cousins $94M over three years is not exorbitant. That is the final arbiter. How they divvied it up is irrelevant.
I mean they gave him $26M in cash his first year and $28M in cash his second year.
You are now saying that because they gave him $40M in cash his third year they would not be happy if he was moved.
But nothing was said about the cash layout those first two years. Interesting.
Is the idea the Wilfs would "not be happy if he was moved" after paying x dollars just about money spent - or about the idea that they were assured by Spielman that Cousins is "the guy", and would dislike another change in direction?
I have no idea but if the GM and coach tell you that they want to move him and go in another direction then what is the owner going to do?
I mean, some owners may say no (like Jones and Snyder) but the Wilfs do not strike me as being that kind of owner.
It doesn't really matter.
The Vikings have to be thinking about life after Cousins.
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
For me... it's a little bit of both. I'm not going to argue that he didn't play well during the last 10 games of the season (he did). However, it seems like we're all back to excusing his brutally awful play from the first 6 games of the year. He singlehandedly lost us the games against Green Bay, Indianapolis, and Atlanta. Those 3 games combined with some tough last second losses during a 1-5 start basically set the tone for the rest of the season. Great he played well when there was no pressure and little chance at the playoffs... think about how much different the season could have been if we had started 3-3 with a really tough opening schedule? I say this as a fan that was ecstatic when we got Kirk. I guess now seeing him up close and personal for 3 seasons, I'm starting to see why Washington moved on.
He's a good, not great QB that has too many stretches of bad play. Yes, even the elite guys like Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, etc. throw up some duds in awhile, but it's much less than Kirk and it doesn't prevent their team from making the playoffs or going on a Super Bowl run.
Add in the fact that Kirk is doing is no favors with what are essentially fully guaranteed deals... Yeah, he's not being paid an exorbitant amount compared to other QBs (right in line with other guys) but he's not as good as the elite guys and he isn't giving us any cap flexibility by adding extra years with little to no dead money on them where we can be flexible with the cap in future years. Need an example? This last 2 year extension freed up what... 10 million in cap space, but we had to push his cap hit through the rough on those two years. So we got a little short term relief, but not future relief without adding more guaranteed years when we're in the same situation heading into the 2022 season.
That's where I'm coming from... honestly, I'd be fine keeping Kirk if he'd drop the mercenary attitude and let the Vikings structure his contract like they have done so successfully in the past (i.e. pay guys top 5 at their position in the first 3 years and leave room to extend or bump their pay in Year 4 or 5 if they've outperformed their contract). The fact that he won't and his play isn't top 5 at his position... I can see why fans are ready to move on and try a cost controlled rookie.
Just my two cents on this topic since it seems to be dominating the board.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
I believe his contract would be the only reason the Vikes would move him. Take a paycut, Kirk, and help the team sign some players that can help you win. Well, maybe winning isn't THAT important to Kirk. B)
^^^^Agree - Dude is set for life, restructure a team friendly deal.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
maybe ask yourself, If Cousins such a liability at QB....why would SF want him?
Are Lynch and the niners TRYING to be mediocre?
The issue with Cousins isnt his play...its his PAY
Aren't these the guys who also thought Garoppolo was their future?
Lynch their GM did... Shanahan wanted Cousins, but Jimmy G got traded to SF a year before Kirk became a FA.
As to Vanguard's earlier question (which I completely forgot to address in my earlier response)... coaches always think they can enhance a QBs strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Shanahan is probably seeing the same traits that the Vikings fell in love with... great deep ball and one of the best play-action passers in the NFL. You can minimize his mistakes by having him in a balanced offense with a strong running game. I mean SF offense is very similar to ours (except they run more motion).
Cousins is an upgrade over Jimmy G (especially when you factor in their injury histories)... and SF has a deadly defense and some weapons on offense. They just need a QB that fits their offense and can stay on the field.
THAT is why they are interested in Kirk.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
Depends who you ask. Nobody thinks Kirk is perfect, he isn't. But he didn't limit the team this season. Injuries and flawed personnel on the defensive side did.
So while you can probably do better than Kirk you probably need to run it back with him to see what happens this season. So while I heard they have no interest in trading him maybe seeing what the Rams offered opened a slight door for someone to feel desperate? But at the end of the day trading Kirk creates more problems than it solves. Top 5 QBs never come available, top 10 QBs hardly come available, and top 15 QBs move once and awhile.
Aside from Spielman/Zimmer needing a strong season I don't think the Wilf's would be thrilled to get the call suggesting they sunk $45M into a single season (2020) of Kirk Cousins.
While the Vikings did redo Cousins' deal prior to this season, he had 30 mil coming no matter what.
So they really did NOT sink 45M into Cousins in 2020. They gave him an extra 10 mil so far.
In 3 years, Cousins has received 94M from the Vikings which is 31.333M per year and not really that much.
The Wilfs received 255M in revenue sharing in 2017.
They received 274.3M in revenue sharing in 2018.
They received 296M in revenue sharing in 2019.
They also had gate receipts and other revenue.
It is doubtful that they have to spend too much of their own money anymore and the value of the team has skyrocketed.
Worrying about the Wilfs paying players who then leave should be the least of anyone's worry.
They literally paid him $40M in cash last year, that is what Kirk took to the bank. The signing bonus is a single check and not deferred in this case. The $94M over 3 is right. But is bad business and a competitive disadvantage to deal Kirk. Not saying they can't choke down the money, they can. But it kills trust with the owners and there is no reason to have effectively paid $20M for Kirk to be elsewhere unless you're getting a significantly better QB.
That sounds reasonable but the fact remains the money is not coming out their pockets due to the revenue sharing and other revenue they received.
If they did trade Cousins now, it would be because they do not want to extend him again after this deal and do not want to try and absorb that $45M cap hit in 2022 that they created for themselves.
Extending past 2022 when he will be 35 when the 2023 season starts is extremely foolish. There is no chance he gets any better and it is more likely he gets even less mobile than he is now (which is pretty awful actually). Cousins has been very fortunate to avoid injury as well. How long can that keep up? Knock on wood.
Taking a $20M dead money cap hit is not a big deal when you realize you save $45M in cap space in 2022 and $11M in cap space in 2021.
In the end, paying Cousins $94M over three years is not exorbitant. That is the final arbiter. How they divvied it up is irrelevant.
I mean they gave him $26M in cash his first year and $28M in cash his second year.
You are now saying that because they gave him $40M in cash his third year they would not be happy if he was moved.
But nothing was said about the cash layout those first two years. Interesting.
Is the idea the Wilfs would "not be happy if he was moved" after paying x dollars just about money spent - or about the idea that they were assured by Spielman that Cousins is "the guy", and would dislike another change in direction?
Probably a blend of both. The Wilfs preach stability and continuity. So after going through a tumultuous period after Bridgewater they convinced ownership that Kirk was the guy. Now you're going back to them to advocate for a change? If you have a through plan of how you are going to improve the QB position, then I get it. But I don't see why the Wilfs would sign off on trading Kirk just to add some draft picks and a worse QB. At this point Spielman/Zimmer won't be choosing the next QB. That could change but I am pretty sure Kirk, Zimmer, and Spielman are all tied together to varying degrees.
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