Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well. Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.
I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.
Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell. Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked. Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team. Fuckers.
**Rant over**
I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)
Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree!  I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years. Without those two, nothing else really matters. So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now. Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.
good for you! i have said forever that we need to focus on OL an DL and then keep QBs on their rookie deals to control costs until we really hit on a guy to good to let walk (like a Brady or Favre type of player.) I would trade them before their final year so that we get the first rounders that come from trading starting QBs instead of letting them walk and only getting a third round pick in return.
It's a good idea but it's dependent on drafting and developing at least a STARTING quarterback. You might have thought a team could turn the #12 overall pick into a competent above-average starter worth trading to someone, but we failed doubly with Ponder:1. We didn't pick the most talented QB available. Whatever you feel about Kaepernick's off-field actions, he had far more ability than Ponder. So did Andy Dalton.2. We didn't develop Ponder. Seriously, did he look lost in 2012? No, he was developing decently for a 2nd-year QB, and his physical skills were up to the task. Of course he had a RB on an amazing season taking the heat off and his OL was probably better than any the Vikings have fielded since. But within 2 years he was a lost cause, so shattered that no coach could fix his deer-in-headlights issue. I'm still surprised he couldn't become an adequate NFL backup for a decade.
So even if you pick some decent QB prospects (for which Spielman has no positive track record), you have to develop them, and how do you do that with a head coach who doesn't like the passing game, a different offensive coordinator every season, and the worst offensive line in the league?
Many people assume Bridgewater would have become a great QB here if he had not been injured. Maybe - but maybe in 2016 he would have been confused by the tension of having 2 de facto Offensive coordinators (Turner and Shurmur), one of them quitting, and an offensive line that was changing players multiple times a game. Ponder regressed in Minnesota, I think Cousins has regressed since coming here...why wouldn't Bridgewater?
Even if we lucked into Trevor Lawrence, if we keep Spielman (who won't invest in the OL) and Zimmer (who isn't supportive of his QBs and blows up offensive coordinators), in 3 years Lawrence will just be the next Jameis Winston.
Who said anything about keeping Zimmer? And if you bring in a offensive minded hc I think you will see more emphasis placed on OL and QB development.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well. Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.
I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.
Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell. Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked. Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team. Fuckers.
**Rant over**
I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)
Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree! I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years. Without those two, nothing else really matters. So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now. Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.
good for you! i have said forever that we need to focus on OL an DL and then keep QBs on their rookie deals to control costs until we really hit on a guy to good to let walk (like a Brady or Favre type of player.) I would trade them before their final year so that we get the first rounders that come from trading starting QBs instead of letting them walk and only getting a third round pick in return.
It's a good idea but it's dependent on drafting and developing at least a STARTING quarterback. You might have thought a team could turn the #12 overall pick into a competent above-average starter worth trading to someone, but we failed doubly with Ponder:1. We didn't pick the most talented QB available. Whatever you feel about Kaepernick's off-field actions, he had far more ability than Ponder. So did Andy Dalton.2. We didn't develop Ponder. Seriously, did he look lost in 2012? No, he was developing decently for a 2nd-year QB, and his physical skills were up to the task. Of course he had a RB on an amazing season taking the heat off and his OL was probably better than any the Vikings have fielded since. But within 2 years he was a lost cause, so shattered that no coach could fix his deer-in-headlights issue. I'm still surprised he couldn't become an adequate NFL backup for a decade.
So even if you pick some decent QB prospects (for which Spielman has no positive track record), you have to develop them, and how do you do that with a head coach who doesn't like the passing game, a different offensive coordinator every season, and the worst offensive line in the league?
Many people assume Bridgewater would have become a great QB here if he had not been injured. Maybe - but maybe in 2016 he would have been confused by the tension of having 2 de facto Offensive coordinators (Turner and Shurmur), one of them quitting, and an offensive line that was changing players multiple times a game. Ponder regressed in Minnesota, I think Cousins has regressed since coming here...why wouldn't Bridgewater?
Even if we lucked into Trevor Lawrence, if we keep Spielman (who won't invest in the OL) and Zimmer (who isn't supportive of his QBs and blows up offensive coordinators), in 3 years Lawrence will just be the next Jameis Winston.
Who said anything about keeping Zimmer? And if you bring in a offensive minded hc I think you will see more emphasis placed on OL and QB development.
Jimmy, I know you're ready for a change and so am I, but there's still a surprisingly large group that feels Zimmer and Spielman are, and deserve to be, secure in their jobs.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well. Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.
I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.
Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell. Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked. Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team. Fuckers.
**Rant over**
I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)
Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree! I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years. Without those two, nothing else really matters. So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now. Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.
good for you! i have said forever that we need to focus on OL an DL and then keep QBs on their rookie deals to control costs until we really hit on a guy to good to let walk (like a Brady or Favre type of player.) I would trade them before their final year so that we get the first rounders that come from trading starting QBs instead of letting them walk and only getting a third round pick in return.
It's a good idea but it's dependent on drafting and developing at least a STARTING quarterback. You might have thought a team could turn the #12 overall pick into a competent above-average starter worth trading to someone, but we failed doubly with Ponder:1. We didn't pick the most talented QB available. Whatever you feel about Kaepernick's off-field actions, he had far more ability than Ponder. So did Andy Dalton.2. We didn't develop Ponder. Seriously, did he look lost in 2012? No, he was developing decently for a 2nd-year QB, and his physical skills were up to the task. Of course he had a RB on an amazing season taking the heat off and his OL was probably better than any the Vikings have fielded since. But within 2 years he was a lost cause, so shattered that no coach could fix his deer-in-headlights issue. I'm still surprised he couldn't become an adequate NFL backup for a decade.
So even if you pick some decent QB prospects (for which Spielman has no positive track record), you have to develop them, and how do you do that with a head coach who doesn't like the passing game, a different offensive coordinator every season, and the worst offensive line in the league?
Many people assume Bridgewater would have become a great QB here if he had not been injured. Maybe - but maybe in 2016 he would have been confused by the tension of having 2 de facto Offensive coordinators (Turner and Shurmur), one of them quitting, and an offensive line that was changing players multiple times a game. Ponder regressed in Minnesota, I think Cousins has regressed since coming here...why wouldn't Bridgewater?
Even if we lucked into Trevor Lawrence, if we keep Spielman (who won't invest in the OL) and Zimmer (who isn't supportive of his QBs and blows up offensive coordinators), in 3 years Lawrence will just be the next Jameis Winston.
Who said anything about keeping Zimmer? And if you bring in a offensive minded hc I think you will see more emphasis placed on OL and QB development.
Jimmy, I know you're ready for a change and so am I, but there's still a surprisingly large group that feels Zimmer and Spielman are, and deserve to be, secure in their jobs.
I think spielman has a group of supporters, not so much for Zimmer though. I think many that say Zimmer won't get fired are just stating their opinion, not necessarily that they don't think he needs to go.
I'm on the fence with Spielman, I still think Zimmer was the Wilfs doing more than RS, i mean he was Parcells guy and the wilfs thinks the big tuna walks on water. I think Rick has a decent eye for some positions, but the glaring weaknesses at QB, DT, and OL really suggest the team needs to make some changes to how they approach scouting, drafting, and coaching those positions.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
I think the only asset we have left that is movable for value would be Reiff and he has been our best lineman this year and deserves a raise really. Of course you cant do it with shittons of money tied up elsewhere.
Unfortunately Cousins has finally proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he cannot carry a team in this current NFL. He is now a big ass anchor to us moving forward.
To me, Harry should be resigned to a long term deal and retire in purple. He reminds me alot of Rod Woodsen who played well through mid thirties. Harris can go somewhere else
At some point we need to stick in Udoh and Metellus and Dye and Wonnum and the DT from Arkansas and stop with all the draft capital in CB’s and WR’s FFS. Build from the inside out. Many of us have said it but old Meathead Tice is still right, always pick the big guy and draft a QB every effing year or 2 at least if you have to to find the next Wilson or Lamar Jackson.
No chance Reiff deserves a raise. They forced him to cut his pay by 5 mil this off season with the chance to get an extra 1 mil if he plays 86% of the snaps and another 1 mil if he plays 93.75% of the snaps.
I would not be surprised to see the team bench him for Cleveland later this year in order to NOT have to pay those incentives.
Either way, it just goes to show how a player performs when they are looking at half their pay in one season and still want to try and get their 2021 salary.
For Reiff, his 2021 salary is 11.75 mil which he will never see from the Vikings.
He is playing for the incentives this year and a contract next year (unless he is going to hang em up).
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
We're $3M Over right now in 2021
Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers.
Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...
Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31, -$10
Hunter - $17, $6
Barr - $15, $7
Reiff - $14, $12
Thielen - $13.5, $8
Kendricks - $12.5, $2.5
Smith - $10, $10
Rudolph - $9.5, $5
Cook - $5.2, -$7
Stephen - $5, $4
Pierce - $5, -$4
Over the Cap has the Vikings at 8.7 million over for 2021, Spotrac has us about 5 million over, either way we need to do some serious work.
as far as Cousins goes, we can cut him after the year with a June 1st designation which will then leave that addional 10 million of prorated bonus on 2022 instead of accelerating it into next years cap, so 31 million in 2021 and 10 in 2022... so we got that going for us.
overthecap initially had the cap number for 2021 at 215 mil.
Now the number is down to 176 mil because the league and the players union agreed to a floor of 176 mil. But they are negotiating still.
Considering the TV contracts are coming up for renewal by 2022, that money is what drove that initial 215 mil number.
I expect that the two sides will reach an agreement where the cap stays at 198.2 mil for at least two seasons.
If you subtract the 198 from the 215 you get 17 mil per team saved in 2021.
overthecap has the 2022 number at 227.5 mil. If you subtract the 198 from the 227 you get 29 mil per team saved.
In two years they can save 46 mil per team which is about 1.47 billion.
I could see them keeping the cap at 198 for another season too.
They are smarter than me so they will figure out how to smooth it out over 5 or more seasons.
There are too many teams way over the cap next year to lower it to 176 mil.
Having said all that, the two players most likely not to return for sure are Reiff and Stephen.
I have been seeing that 176 million number from several sources lately. I am assuming that after this year and the revenues being in the toilet, they will have to lower it or the owners might not make it through the winter.
Oh, the owners will find a way to eat, hit some strip mall massage parlors...
MLB is going to be in the same boat - and just after the owners and players were playing nice too.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well. Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.
I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.
Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell. Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked. Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team. Fuckers.
**Rant over**
I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)
Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree! I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years. Without those two, nothing else really matters. So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now. Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.
good for you! i have said forever that we need to focus on OL an DL and then keep QBs on their rookie deals to control costs until we really hit on a guy to good to let walk (like a Brady or Favre type of player.) I would trade them before their final year so that we get the first rounders that come from trading starting QBs instead of letting them walk and only getting a third round pick in return.
It's a good idea but it's dependent on drafting and developing at least a STARTING quarterback. You might have thought a team could turn the #12 overall pick into a competent above-average starter worth trading to someone, but we failed doubly with Ponder:1. We didn't pick the most talented QB available. Whatever you feel about Kaepernick's off-field actions, he had far more ability than Ponder. So did Andy Dalton.2. We didn't develop Ponder. Seriously, did he look lost in 2012? No, he was developing decently for a 2nd-year QB, and his physical skills were up to the task. Of course he had a RB on an amazing season taking the heat off and his OL was probably better than any the Vikings have fielded since. But within 2 years he was a lost cause, so shattered that no coach could fix his deer-in-headlights issue. I'm still surprised he couldn't become an adequate NFL backup for a decade.
So even if you pick some decent QB prospects (for which Spielman has no positive track record), you have to develop them, and how do you do that with a head coach who doesn't like the passing game, a different offensive coordinator every season, and the worst offensive line in the league?
Many people assume Bridgewater would have become a great QB here if he had not been injured. Maybe - but maybe in 2016 he would have been confused by the tension of having 2 de facto Offensive coordinators (Turner and Shurmur), one of them quitting, and an offensive line that was changing players multiple times a game. Ponder regressed in Minnesota, I think Cousins has regressed since coming here...why wouldn't Bridgewater?
Even if we lucked into Trevor Lawrence, if we keep Spielman (who won't invest in the OL) and Zimmer (who isn't supportive of his QBs and blows up offensive coordinators), in 3 years Lawrence will just be the next Jameis Winston.
Who said anything about keeping Zimmer? And if you bring in a offensive minded hc I think you will see more emphasis placed on OL and QB development.
Jimmy, I know you're ready for a change and so am I, but there's still a surprisingly large group that feels Zimmer and Spielman are, and deserve to be, secure in their jobs.
Spielman should get a lifetime contract. There aren't many better GMs in the NFL. And probably none better on draft day. And he's getting better at that.
I think Zimmer is one of the best defensive minds in football. I also think he's one of the worst game-prep coaches I've seen in recent memory.
If we fire Zimmer at some point before the '21 season, I would neither be surprised or upset. Firing Spielman would be a blunder of colossal proportions.
Zygi, bubbie, don't be the idiot who overreacts to a bad season by discarding the ONE thing your team does pretty well.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
We're $3M Over right now in 2021
Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers.
Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...
Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31, -$10
Hunter - $17, $6
Barr - $15, $7
Reiff - $14, $12
Thielen - $13.5, $8
Kendricks - $12.5, $2.5
Smith - $10, $10
Rudolph - $9.5, $5
Cook - $5.2, -$7
Stephen - $5, $4
Pierce - $5, -$4
Over the Cap has the Vikings at 8.7 million over for 2021, Spotrac has us about 5 million over, either way we need to do some serious work.
as far as Cousins goes, we can cut him after the year with a June 1st designation which will then leave that addional 10 million of prorated bonus on 2022 instead of accelerating it into next years cap, so 31 million in 2021 and 10 in 2022... so we got that going for us.
overthecap initially had the cap number for 2021 at 215 mil.
Now the number is down to 176 mil because the league and the players union agreed to a floor of 176 mil. But they are negotiating still.
Considering the TV contracts are coming up for renewal by 2022, that money is what drove that initial 215 mil number.
I expect that the two sides will reach an agreement where the cap stays at 198.2 mil for at least two seasons.
If you subtract the 198 from the 215 you get 17 mil per team saved in 2021.
overthecap has the 2022 number at 227.5 mil. If you subtract the 198 from the 227 you get 29 mil per team saved.
In two years they can save 46 mil per team which is about 1.47 billion.
I could see them keeping the cap at 198 for another season too.
They are smarter than me so they will figure out how to smooth it out over 5 or more seasons.
There are too many teams way over the cap next year to lower it to 176 mil.
Having said all that, the two players most likely not to return for sure are Reiff and Stephen.
I have been seeing that 176 million number from several sources lately. I am assuming that after this year and the revenues being in the toilet, they will have to lower it or the owners might not make it through the winter.
Oh, the owners will find a way to eat, hit some strip mall massage parlors...
MLB is going to be in the same boat - and just after the owners and players were playing nice too.
I've heard the wings at strip clubs are amazing.
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