Quote: @Skodin said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
You really just said that? It's a syllogistic fallacy. If Jerry Falwell was a Baptist and that's bad. Is it also bad that Martin Luther King was a Baptist? The fallacy being that being Baptist (or Catholic) is bad in the first place.
I actually like that she's Catholic. Among Evangelicals the bigger nuts tend to be on the Protestant side. Not that she's not a nut.
Of course I just said that. (well yesterday anyway) Newsweek crossed the line trying to smear Mrs Barrett's religion especially when the person they have a hard on for is allegedly part of same dang one. She's part of a group of Christians that from what I am able to figure out does nothing wrong other then being a community outreach group. They built some schools and are trying to help the poor. My gosh call the press!!!!!
Is this what the left demonizes today??? I guess if you cannot fabricate sexual misconduct this is next in line?
In 2002, inspired by the Holy Spirit, People of Praise members began
moving into some of America's poorest neighborhoods. Since then, we have
lived closely with our neighbors and worked together to help meet
pressing neighborhood needs. Our efforts include running summer camps
for hundreds of children, repairing neighborhood homes, hosting prayer
meetings, growing healthy food on an urban farm and establishing a
private elementary school, Praise Academy at Lakeside. Longtime local residents have credited these efforts with lowering the crime rate and making the neighborhoods more beautiful and peaceful places to live.
https://peopleofpraise.org/
DERRPPP. . . . but the FOUNDERS!!!!!
Yes, the founders who wanted the separation of church and state. Not someone who judges on judicial matters with her dogma as the basis for decision making.
So were the founders wrong now? Or are we cherry picking what they wanted? I mean you bible fans love to pick the parts that are applicable, but are we doing this now with the intent of the constitution.
Speaking of
She's an originalist, while the actual originalists wanted the constitution to be redone with the changing of the times. Jefferson wanted it ripped up every 19 years.
So is this about Americans, the republic, democracy or is it really about power and control?
What exactly are you talking about? She says she's an originalist. I haven't studied her court decisions and neither have you at best you've read some opinion piece somewhere about her. Thats all of us have had a chance to do because until this week NOBODY has really heard of her. The opinion pieces I have read said she's most comparable to Anthony Scalia. If she practiced like him that would seem to be a decent judge on the Supreme Court. Are justices not allowed to have a religion or outside life?
I'm a big believer in separation of church and state. I argued with a good friend on FB yesterday when he posted a meme about having prayer in public schools. The separation should exist and is stated as such. They make private school and home school if you want your children raised differently.
I'm not sure where you're going on originalist vs actual orginalist. What you're describing as an actual originalist would more accurately be described as someone who is a a living constitutionalists.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
You really just said that? It's a syllogistic fallacy. If Jerry Falwell was a Baptist and that's bad. Is it also bad that Martin Luther King was a Baptist? The fallacy being that being Baptist (or Catholic) is bad in the first place.
I actually like that she's Catholic. Among Evangelicals the bigger nuts tend to be on the Protestant side. Not that she's not a nut.
That is so tolerant of you.
Biden isn't really Catholic. To be a person of a certain faith, you have to adhere to the tenets of that faith. Or at least try.
What tenet of the faith does he not adhere to?
which ones does he adhere to?
Which one do you adhere to?
Bah...never mind. I'll concede that Jesus loves you more.
Abortion is the easy one. You cannot be Catholic and believe in abortion. Its like one of their main things.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Biden's had one.
Well, I would guess he hasn't either. I'm not catholic so don't know church discipline. He does like to promote the fact that he is catholic yet actively supports abortion. Does this mean he loses standing in the church? I don't know. I do recall that he was denied communion during the primary season in South Carolina.
For those interested, here is the take of one catholic theologian on the topic: https://theconversation.com/why-joe-biden-was-denied-communion-at-a-church-126171
I'm not interested in an abortion debate. Found it to be an interesting topic on why a pro abortion politician was denied communion. The church has a right to their own discipline procedures and I am in no position to judge them one way or another.
Supports abortion? I don’t know anyone who “supports abortion.” The issue is between those who want to criminalize it and those who want to keep it legal and safe. How do you feel about adultery? I’m guessing you might be opposed to it, think it morally wrong, but you probably don’t want the government rounding up cheating spouses.
Second, I think most everyone—muslims, jews, catholics, protestants, atheists—agree that fewer abortions are a good thing. But how do you go about reducing them? We’ve already seen what happens where abortion is criminalized. Abortions don’t stop; they’re just done in back alleys under unsafe conditions. Millions of them. And thousands of women die as a result. It’s been proven that the most effective way to reduce abortions is through sex education and birth control, programs that, ironically, the anti-abortion crowd wants to eliminate. Want to REALLY reduce abortion rates? Add universal healthcare to the mix. Think about it....if a scared, unemployed young woman knows that her child will have access to free healthcare, she's far more likely to carry the baby to term. Countries where abortion is legal AND there is universal healthcare have the lowest abortion rates in the world. Among developed countries, abortion rates are highest in the United States.
Third, not everyone believes that life, afforded all the rights of the Constitution, begins at fertilization. Or that ending an unintended pregnancy is morally wrong. I might believe that. You might believe that. Biden might believe that. But do any of us have the right to legislatively impose our view on a society that respects ALL opinions, a society in which obtaining an abortion is a constitutional right?
Finally, going back to the church, Christ never once spoke about abortion. If you believe in the divinity of Christ, that Jesus is “one with the father,” then you also believe that Christ knows all that has been and all that will be. And if that’s the case, then He knew abortion would be a hot topic in the late 20th and early 21st century. So why did He not bother to even mention it? I’ve heard some argue that abortion wasn’t a thing back then. But it was. The practice of ending unintended pregnancies had been going on for centuries before Christ, going back to the ancient Greeks. So why not mention it? He sure as shootin’ makes it crystal clear what He thought about money, greed, poverty, et al…topics many anti-abortion folks don’t seem to give a shit about.
I'm pro-life but also think the way to slow down unwanted pregnancies is to give away birth control and condoms to anyone who wants them and change the stupid abstinence sex-ed to teaching the kids how the body actually works. Kids are going to have sex. Lets at least give them a way to not knock up a 14 year old.
Put condom dispensers in schools. Give away the pill. And educate. Thats how you decrease abortions.
With that said, the reason I'm pro-life is I believe life begins at conception and the person should be afforded all the rights and responsibilities everyone else is.
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
I was merely discussing Biden cloaking himself in his catholic beliefs yet he stands at odds with his church's teaching. It is a hypocritical stance, yet many American catholics fall within the same hypocrisy.
Many Catholics stand at odds with the church's teaching. Most Catholics oppose abortion, but most (53%) believe it's not wrong to support a pro-choice candidate or policy. In fact, the group that Amy Coney Barrett belongs to believes the same thing. Craig Lent, the leader of People of Praise, considers "abortion a 'morally wrong act' but takes no position on abortion policy, comparing it to the way that greed is morally wrong but what that should mean for policy is up to individual discernment."
Just because I oppose adultery doesn't mean I'm going to support only those candidates who want to criminalize it.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
You really just said that? It's a syllogistic fallacy. If Jerry Falwell was a Baptist and that's bad. Is it also bad that Martin Luther King was a Baptist? The fallacy being that being Baptist (or Catholic) is bad in the first place.
I actually like that she's Catholic. Among Evangelicals the bigger nuts tend to be on the Protestant side. Not that she's not a nut.
That is so tolerant of you.
Biden isn't really Catholic. To be a person of a certain faith, you have to adhere to the tenets of that faith. Or at least try.
What tenet of the faith does he not adhere to?
which ones does he adhere to?
Which one do you adhere to?
Bah...never mind. I'll concede that Jesus loves you more.
Abortion is the easy one. You cannot be Catholic and believe in abortion. Its like one of their main things.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Biden's had one.
Well, I would guess he hasn't either. I'm not catholic so don't know church discipline. He does like to promote the fact that he is catholic yet actively supports abortion. Does this mean he loses standing in the church? I don't know. I do recall that he was denied communion during the primary season in South Carolina.
For those interested, here is the take of one catholic theologian on the topic: https://theconversation.com/why-joe-biden-was-denied-communion-at-a-church-126171
I'm not interested in an abortion debate. Found it to be an interesting topic on why a pro abortion politician was denied communion. The church has a right to their own discipline procedures and I am in no position to judge them one way or another.
Supports abortion? I don’t know anyone who “supports abortion.” The issue is between those who want to criminalize it and those who want to keep it legal and safe. How do you feel about adultery? I’m guessing you might be opposed to it, think it morally wrong, but you probably don’t want the government rounding up cheating spouses.
Second, I think most everyone—muslims, jews, catholics, protestants, atheists—agree that fewer abortions are a good thing. But how do you go about reducing them? We’ve already seen what happens where abortion is criminalized. Abortions don’t stop; they’re just done in back alleys under unsafe conditions. Millions of them. And thousands of women die as a result. It’s been proven that the most effective way to reduce abortions is through sex education and birth control, programs that, ironically, the anti-abortion crowd wants to eliminate. Want to REALLY reduce abortion rates? Add universal healthcare to the mix. Think about it....if a scared, unemployed young woman knows that her child will have access to free healthcare, she's far more likely to carry the baby to term. Countries where abortion is legal AND there is universal healthcare have the lowest abortion rates in the world. Among developed countries, abortion rates are highest in the United States.
Third, not everyone believes that life, afforded all the rights of the Constitution, begins at fertilization. Or that ending an unintended pregnancy is morally wrong. I might believe that. You might believe that. Biden might believe that. But do any of us have the right to legislatively impose our view on a society that respects ALL opinions, a society in which obtaining an abortion is a constitutional right?
Finally, going back to the church, Christ never once spoke about abortion. If you believe in the divinity of Christ, that Jesus is “one with the father,” then you also believe that Christ knows all that has been and all that will be. And if that’s the case, then He knew abortion would be a hot topic in the late 20th and early 21st century. So why did He not bother to even mention it? I’ve heard some argue that abortion wasn’t a thing back then. But it was. The practice of ending unintended pregnancies had been going on for centuries before Christ, going back to the ancient Greeks. So why not mention it? He sure as shootin’ makes it crystal clear what He thought about money, greed, poverty, et al…topics many anti-abortion folks don’t seem to give a shit about.
I'm pro-life but also think the way to slow down unwanted pregnancies is to give away birth control and condoms to anyone who wants them and change the stupid abstinence sex-ed to teaching the kids how the body actually works. Kids are going to have sex. Lets at least give them a way to not knock up a 14 year old.
Put condom dispensers in schools. Give away the pill. And educate. Thats how you decrease abortions.
With that said, the reason I'm pro-life is I believe life begins at conception and the person should be afforded all the rights and responsibilities everyone else is.
Well, I don't think a fertilized egg has any "responsibilities." ;-) But, yes, many believe what you believe about the rights of a fetus. And that's OK. But many don't.
Interesting take MB, thanks for the information.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I prefer his position over the promoters of rapist and incest rights.
Really? That how you want to go about this? Talk about straw man.
You want to call someone pro-abortion as apposed to pro-choice , okay I can sink to your level. Forget any complexity or nuance, go for the most emotional binary pejorative you can think of, don't like it.
Is there any room in the conversation regarding the fetus/human being for "brain activity"?
I mean we call someone clinically dead when they have no brain activity, would it be fair to say that a fetus is a human around the development of brain activity?
I am not trolling I am asking, because I can't subscribe to the idea that the initial sex act is when we can consider it a life nor should we allow late term abortions to take place past a certain point either.
@ AGRforever, I couldn't agree more about sex ed in school and the providing of young adults the protection they need to not make a mistake. I say this as someone who as born from two foolish 16 year olds. Their story and my life is not the norm, the statistics prove this.
Yeah and I have a question about life beginning at conception, Why wait till after birth or later, till you can accept responsibility, to baptize, isn't that a prerequisite for salvation? What about children of nonbelievers, are they damned from the git go or until they declare?
Quote: @Skodin said:
Is there any room in the conversation regarding the fetus/human being for "brain activity"?
I mean we call someone clinically dead when they have no brain activity, would it be fair to say that a fetus is a human around the development of brain activity?
I am not trolling I am asking, because I can't subscribe to the idea that the initial sex act is when we can consider it a life nor should we allow late term abortions to take place past a certain point either.
@ AGRforever, I couldn't agree more about sex ed in school and the providing of young adults the protection they need to not make a mistake. I say this as someone who as born from two foolish 16 year olds. Their story and my life is not the norm, the statistics prove this.
yeah, I obviously dont get to make the laws or figure out what is and isnt. At some point its a human and passing through a birthing canal seems like an awful late time to go from a lump of tissue to human. Id
All this is a moot point though. Roe V Wade is the law of the land and it doesnt matter if theres 9 conservative or 9 liberal judges on the court. Both sides use it as a battle cry so you go out and vote for them and donate and feel outraged so much that you post on sports boards about it and on and on.
If either side gave a shit they would have passed laws when they had the votes and neither did.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I prefer his position over the promoters of rapist and incest rights.
Really? That how you want to go about this? Talk about straw man.
You want to call someone pro-abortion as apposed to pro-choice , okay I can sink to your level. Forget any complexity or nuance, go for the most emotional binary pejorative you can think of, don't like it.
Ok...you got me. I’ll refer to you from now on as pro-murder.
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