Quote: @Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Just wait till the new green deal passes, Biden and Harris will set records for most new federal debt, business debt, personal debt and lost jobs! Woohoo, good times!
Even if what you say was true... which is not, I don't remember Biden saying he will eliminate the national debt. Trump on the other hand said repeatedly he and he alone could and will eliminate the national debt but has instead increased it at an alarming rate. I bet you see no problem with that.
I'm a fiscal and social conservative. Don't like the current status and the Green New Deal scares the crap out of me for the effects on the economy, on jobs, cost of living, and added debt. Can't support the New Green Deal and that is a key part of Biden's platform.
Besides, congress sets the budget not the President.
What economic and job losses are you concerned about? Which market employs more people, renewables or fossil fuels? Which market is government sub sized more? The Green New Deal is the pie in the sky pitch to get us in that direction but it won’t fully end up there.
Throw a price on carbon (because there needs to be one) and the green new deal will be a massive job creation tool for the 21st century US infrastructure.
I would be curios to see the jobs by energy sector if you eliminated the construction jobs from the equation since those arent permanent jobs. operations and maintenance as well as those in the supply line for the associated products like people making tubines and blades, vs the people supplying the mining or drilling industries full time.
I am not trying to be a smart ass here, but a trip through Gillette Wyoming 15 years ago vs 5 years ago when coal and oil were struggling under the Obama era regulations paints a really different picture of jobs. Coal and Oil have fed a lot of families in the "energy capital of the US" before that part of the industry was crushed by regulations. I cant speak for other parts of the country in terms of jobs associated with energy, but we have facilities that produce wind turbine parts (blades and structures) here in SD that dont employ near what the support companies employed just in Gillette that supported the coal, oil, and natural gas companies in that area. Gillette has started to come back after some of the restrictions were eased, but its a far cry from 15 years ago.
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You are going to mention honesty while we are under the Trump administration? Really? Some of you have no shame. We have leaders to lead and if we have a terrible economy due to the pandemic it is because Trump failed as a leader. The spin cannot hide that.
Talk about no shame. She is clearly lying. The economy had not tanked until the pandemic. No where can you find anyone saying the economy had tanked earlier. Never said Trump was perfect nor totally honest. You leapt to a strawman and apparently have the same level of honesty as Harris. Or do you admit that she is wrong?
You were questioning Harris honesty. I asked if you ever questioned Trumps. You cant even try to equate both. If you are concerned about Harris' honestly because of the "lie" above, one would expect you being more vocal or more than concerned about Trumps (someone who has lied over 2000 times, lies all the time about the pandemic and keeps lying and hurting the country). All you can come up with is the pathetic and biased statement that "I never said Trump was perfect" (neither did you say he was terrible but you called out Harris - hence my point). By the way that is the wrong statement. "Trump is terrible" when it comes to honesty is a more appropriate statement.
I would gladly be associated with Harris than Trump when it comes to honesty. Can you say the same?
Answer the question mblack, is Harris telling the truth? did the economy crater in 2019, pre pandemic. I'm trying to get you to answer a simple question. You brought up Trump.
They will never acknowledge their own hypocrisy. Hell, Biden chose the woman that basically called him a racist. They revel in it and their base isn't smart enough to see through the lies. Biden has been in government for what, 40+ years and somehow they think he has solutions that have never been thought of. He is a racist, child fondling creepy, dishonest, lying politician. But he has a D, so that is okay.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You are going to mention honesty while we are under the Trump administration? Really? Some of you have no shame. We have leaders to lead and if we have a terrible economy due to the pandemic it is because Trump failed as a leader. The spin cannot hide that.
Talk about no shame. She is clearly lying. The economy had not tanked until the pandemic. No where can you find anyone saying the economy had tanked earlier. Never said Trump was perfect nor totally honest. You leapt to a strawman and apparently have the same level of honesty as Harris. Or do you admit that she is wrong?
You were questioning Harris honesty. I asked if you ever questioned Trumps. You cant even try to equate both. If you are concerned about Harris' honestly because of the "lie" above, one would expect you being more vocal or more than concerned about Trumps (someone who has lied over 2000 times, lies all the time about the pandemic and keeps lying and hurting the country). All you can come up with is the pathetic and biased statement that "I never said Trump was perfect" (neither did you say he was terrible but you called out Harris - hence my point). By the way that is the wrong statement. "Trump is terrible" when it comes to honesty is a more appropriate statement.
I would gladly be associated with Harris than Trump when it comes to honesty. Can you say the same?
Answer the question mblack, is Harris telling the truth? did the economy crater in 2019, pre pandemic. I'm trying to get you to answer a simple question. You brought up Trump.
They will never acknowledge their own hypocrisy. Hell, Biden chose the woman that basically called him a racist. They revel in it and their base isn't smart enough to see through the lies. Biden has been in government for what, 40+ years and somehow they think he has solutions that have never been thought of. He is a racist, child fondling creepy, dishonest, lying politician. But he has a D, so that is okay.
he is Trump before Trump switched teams, without the jobs creation and the willingness to engage in trade wars that would improve the US's global position. honestly though, as a middle /right person, Biden would have been my preferred choice based on his previous political history, I dont care for some of what he has done, but compared to the rest of the blue team candidates he was likely the one that I would have been closest aligned to. I would have preferred he pulled his VP from the Blue Dogs in congress, that would have possibly made him vote-able for me. I am growing weary of Trumps juvenile twitter attacks, I understand why he lashes out, but much like this place, sometimes people need to walk away from the bait for the betterment of the whole.
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
Just wait till the new green deal passes, Biden and Harris will set records for most new federal debt, business debt, personal debt and lost jobs! Woohoo, good times!
Even if what you say was true... which is not, I don't remember Biden saying he will eliminate the national debt. Trump on the other hand said repeatedly he and he alone could and will eliminate the national debt but has instead increased it at an alarming rate. I bet you see no problem with that.
I'm a fiscal and social conservative. Don't like the current status and the Green New Deal scares the crap out of me for the effects on the economy, on jobs, cost of living, and added debt. Can't support the New Green Deal and that is a key part of Biden's platform.
Besides, congress sets the budget not the President.
But I don't remember you being scared or against Trump (you just don't like it) for adding 10 trillion in 4 years ( a reality and fact we know) but the green new deal that you think will add to the debt "scares the crap out of you". You carefully forget the green new deal is not yet flushed out, it is evolving and not reality. Great way of thinking.
Lastly you now say congress sets the budget not the president but again Trump supporters are OK with the following:
- Taking money that congress allocated to military to build a wall
- Trump executive order to waive tax
Isn't that what you just said congress does? Yet the trump supreme court and supporters think the president has the right to do. So which side are you? You guys cant argue both sides.
Geez, get a grip MBlack, I have always said congress sets the budget. I've never changed my stance. I've never been happy with increasing the deficit. It's been going up for decades. A fundamental change is required by both parties in congress to reduce, eliminate deficit spending. I speak for myself, I'm not responsible for actions taken by others. Debate with those who made the decisions. I support fiscal conservatives. Do you?
At the bold yes. The problem here is those that say they support it seem to be OK when then the same money is being given to the wealthy.
If you are OK with the budget being set by congress then you should not be OK with what i cited above. The problem is you don't seem to care about it. Hence my point above. One of the pillars of a fiscal conservative is low government debt. The debt has increased by 10 trillion in about 4 year. I don't remember you calling for change
Quote: @greediron said:
@ mblack said:
especially those opinion-facts that the left states as fact, without any facts.
Sorry, but saying Facts... doesn't make it so. But keep wishing.
Lets start with the recently signed covid executive orders. Is what is being said by the president what he signed? Again I am talking about facts not "alternative facts"
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You are going to mention honesty while we are under the Trump administration? Really? Some of you have no shame. We have leaders to lead and if we have a terrible economy due to the pandemic it is because Trump failed as a leader. The spin cannot hide that.
Talk about no shame. She is clearly lying. The economy had not tanked until the pandemic. No where can you find anyone saying the economy had tanked earlier. Never said Trump was perfect nor totally honest. You leapt to a strawman and apparently have the same level of honesty as Harris. Or do you admit that she is wrong?
You were questioning Harris honesty. I asked if you ever questioned Trumps. You cant even try to equate both. If you are concerned about Harris' honestly because of the "lie" above, one would expect you being more vocal or more than concerned about Trumps (someone who has lied over 2000 times, lies all the time about the pandemic and keeps lying and hurting the country). All you can come up with is the pathetic and biased statement that "I never said Trump was perfect" (neither did you say he was terrible but you called out Harris - hence my point). By the way that is the wrong statement. "Trump is terrible" when it comes to honesty is a more appropriate statement.
I would gladly be associated with Harris than Trump when it comes to honesty. Can you say the same?
Answer the question mblack, is Harris telling the truth? did the economy crater in 2019, pre pandemic. I'm trying to get you to answer a simple question. You brought up Trump.
Stop moving the goal post.
This is what you said....
Quote:Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You said she "lacks" honesty and I merely pointed out that Trump was worse (and I did not see you questioning his). And yes I brought Trump to show your hypocrisy. If that's all it takes for someone to lose credibility in your eyes I wonder how you see Trump. I'll answer your question when you answer mine
Quote: @mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You are going to mention honesty while we are under the Trump administration? Really? Some of you have no shame. We have leaders to lead and if we have a terrible economy due to the pandemic it is because Trump failed as a leader. The spin cannot hide that.
Talk about no shame. She is clearly lying. The economy had not tanked until the pandemic. No where can you find anyone saying the economy had tanked earlier. Never said Trump was perfect nor totally honest. You leapt to a strawman and apparently have the same level of honesty as Harris. Or do you admit that she is wrong?
You were questioning Harris honesty. I asked if you ever questioned Trumps. You cant even try to equate both. If you are concerned about Harris' honestly because of the "lie" above, one would expect you being more vocal or more than concerned about Trumps (someone who has lied over 2000 times, lies all the time about the pandemic and keeps lying and hurting the country). All you can come up with is the pathetic and biased statement that "I never said Trump was perfect" (neither did you say he was terrible but you called out Harris - hence my point). By the way that is the wrong statement. "Trump is terrible" when it comes to honesty is a more appropriate statement.
I would gladly be associated with Harris than Trump when it comes to honesty. Can you say the same?
Answer the question mblack, is Harris telling the truth? did the economy crater in 2019, pre pandemic. I'm trying to get you to answer a simple question. You brought up Trump.
Stop moving the goal post.
This is what you said....
Quote:Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You said she "lacks" honesty and I merely pointed out that Trump was worse (and I did not see you questioning his). And yes I brought Trump to show your hypocrisy.
so when a trump supporter brings up obama to make a point that pisses dems off, but you can bring up Trump to try and make a counter point defending Harris's honesty?
news flash to all.... how can you tell if a politician is lying? their lips are moving. ![[Image: d172jh-382ab487-7f73-471f-b573-23c374725...dK-FxuB-n4]](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/ceb34671-de95-4761-a67c-ae34f15d6030/d172jh-382ab487-7f73-471f-b573-23c374725c75.gif?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3sicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvY2ViMzQ2NzEtZGU5NS00NzYxLWE2N2MtYWUzNGYxNWQ2MDMwXC9kMTcyamgtMzgyYWI0ODctN2Y3My00NzFmLWI1NzMtMjNjMzc0NzI1Yzc1LmdpZiJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl19.-nS--6W0UgIGB0YkV6yaNLqA5mDko8k7edK-FxuB-n4)
Quote: @greediron said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
Harris lacks honesty when she does not separate the excellent economy early in the year versus the effects of shutdowns due to the pandemic.
You are going to mention honesty while we are under the Trump administration? Really? Some of you have no shame. We have leaders to lead and if we have a terrible economy due to the pandemic it is because Trump failed as a leader. The spin cannot hide that.
Talk about no shame. She is clearly lying. The economy had not tanked until the pandemic. No where can you find anyone saying the economy had tanked earlier. Never said Trump was perfect nor totally honest. You leapt to a strawman and apparently have the same level of honesty as Harris. Or do you admit that she is wrong?
You were questioning Harris honesty. I asked if you ever questioned Trumps. You cant even try to equate both. If you are concerned about Harris' honestly because of the "lie" above, one would expect you being more vocal or more than concerned about Trumps (someone who has lied over 2000 times, lies all the time about the pandemic and keeps lying and hurting the country). All you can come up with is the pathetic and biased statement that "I never said Trump was perfect" (neither did you say he was terrible but you called out Harris - hence my point). By the way that is the wrong statement. "Trump is terrible" when it comes to honesty is a more appropriate statement.
I would gladly be associated with Harris than Trump when it comes to honesty. Can you say the same?
Answer the question mblack, is Harris telling the truth? did the economy crater in 2019, pre pandemic. I'm trying to get you to answer a simple question. You brought up Trump.
They will never acknowledge their own hypocrisy. Hell, Biden chose the woman that basically called him a racist. They revel in it and their base isn't smart enough to see through the lies. Biden has been in government for what, 40+ years and somehow they think he has solutions that have never been thought of. He is a racist, child fondling creepy, dishonest, lying politician. But he has a D, so that is okay.
Fixed that for you....
Trump has been been a failed businessman for what, 40+ years and somehow they think he has solutions that have never been thought of. He is a racist, child fondling creepy, dishonest, lying businessman turn politician. But he is a D R, so that is okay.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
govt energy subsidies by source.
![[Image: unnamed-637x380.png]](https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/unnamed-637x380.png)
https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2019/09/23/energy-subsidies-renewables-fossil-fuels/
![[Image: Energy-Subsidies-1-e1547059103307.png]](https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Energy-Subsidies-1-e1547059103307.png)
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/fossil-fuels-dominate-u-s-energy-production-but-receive-a-small-percentage-of-federal-fuel-subsidies/#:~:text=In%20FY%202016%2C%2093%20percent,were%20associated%20with%20fossil%20fuels.&text=In%20FY%202016%2C%20tax%20expenditures,of%20total%20renewable%20energy%20subsidies.
Renewable energy collects 93% of federal subsidieshttps://talkbusiness.net/2019/01/renewable-energy-collects-93-of-federal-subsidies/
Man, you keep bringing this up as if power generation is in a vaccuum. The real cost of fossil fuels, subsidies are here:
A new International Monetary Fund (IMF) study shows that USD$5.2 trillion was spent globally on fossil fuel subsidies in 2017. The equivalent of over 6.5% of global GDP of that year, it also represented a half-trillion dollar increase since 2015 when China ($1.4 trillion), the United States ($649 billion) and Russia ($551 billion) were the largest subsidizers.
You know that the IER was founded by Charles Koch right? Funded by Exxon and Koch? Tied to the ALEC? Have run campaigns against green jobs because ? Admitted to paying for anti-wind studies. The President of the IER is a former director of Enron, Ken Lay’s close contact.
I think that’s all that need to be said about this data.
Higher wages (Fact), more jobs (Fact), greater exportable innovation (Fact and a battle we are losing with China) sit on the side of renewables, yet you want to defend a dying dinosaur industry.
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