Quote: @BigAl99 said:
I wish I could be a good boy, too, but just to many scars from the Nun's to not react. They taught me to know a theocracy and those who profess it.
I was raised in the bright and sunny light of devout Catholic parents: so fun! Every mass a joy to behold! Born sinner! Confession hilarity! Hypocrisy abounds!
Don't get me started: nothing worse than a former Catholic (me) as far as pissing in everyone's cornflakes. I'm like a former smoker that way.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ pumpf said:
The most basic (and honest) answer is this: there are only 2 kinds of people in the world- those who are saved by faith in Jesus Christ... and those who are "enemies of the Cross". If you believe that the Bible is true, God's Word makes it clear that Satan will use anything he can to attack- and deceive- the Church. Ultimately, he is behind every attack against Christians. So, why would Satan "attack" Muslims... or the ELCA... or any other unbeliever, for that matter... since they are already doing his work for him?
ELCA....some time when I stop by and am not in a hurry you will need to explain the differences in all the Lutheran churches to me, by the way tell your son I was sorry to hear that he was losing his first year of college football, that has to really suck for him and have him feeling pretty low.
For the sake of Al, I'll go ahead and explain it now. There are- basically- 2 "branches" of Lutheranism in America: those who believe that the Bible is "all true"... and those who believe that only "some" of it is true. Now, among the "all true" branches, there are the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS), the Wisconsin Synod (WELS)... and some smaller, lesser-known denominations. Among the "some of it is true" branches of Lutheranism, the main denomination is the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA). Because they have determined that the Bible is the produce of fallible, prejudiced men, they have taken the position of authority "over" Scripture (the power to decide- for themselves- which passages they agree with and will follow vs. those that they don't agree with and reject).
LOL. This just DRIPS in sneering bitterness and judgement. If only they had all the answers like you, Pumpf.
Debate the facts not the poster. If you want to refute the post then provide substance of your own to back it up please.
Jesus, Jimmy...do you realize he just called an entire doctrine the anti-Christ? Try to play fair, K?
So find counter points to his claim. Other posters are not what this board is about. If you cant or wont, then walk away. There is no rule that we have to take every topic to the edge and beyond, but we do have a rule about making responses personal.
Wow... I call him judgmental; he calls 3 million ELCA members who simply disagree with him, the "AntiChrist"….and I’m the one who’s out of line. I'm not ELCA but I'd be pretty pissed off if I were.
You should know you can't debate anything with a Biblical literalist. Instead of having the humility and grace to state their belief is based on their own personal interpretation of the Bible, they say, basically, this is what the Bible says, as if there is only one interpretation of it: theirs. When there are, in fact, thousands.
It's why people over the centuries who read the exact same book have disagreed with almost everything in it...from slavery and transubstantiation to ordination policy and baptism.
While it's true that there are many interpretations of the Bible, that doesn't mean that they are all equally valid.
Which ones have you deemed valid?
I would say that the very notion of reading the Bible literally is itself an interpretation.
Fair enough. But, again: going back to the analogy I used about your biography... if you wrote one thing in your book... and then someone else said that you wrote something completely different: who's right? Which "interpretation" is the right one: the one that actually repeats what you, yourself said... or the one that rejects the "literal" words you wrote, in favor of their own, personal interpretation? I think most rational people would take you at your word and "interpret" your book to mean what you actually wrote.
Both. Someone might, in fact probably would, read my biography and discover things about me that I'm not even aware of. The Bible's like that.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
...and guess what? That person might be right. And you might be wrong. I still find it impossible to accept that Jews, for example, among others, who have spent their entire lives dedicated to serving God and their communities are going to burn in endless fires of hell with no hope of death.
Put away your bible and think about that for a bit and what does your gut tell you? Your God-given intellect? Tells me that pastor might be right. You may not like that... or agree with it... but that IS what the Bible says. And the Bible is the source for orthodox (correct) teachings (not my feelings or my gut).
Ever consider the possibility that you might be wrong? I know, crazy, right? Probably something you’ve never even once considered. But imagine when you go to meet your maker, he stops you at the gate and says “Dude, what in the name of ME were you thinking!!??” You weren’t supposed to take that stuff literally, numb nuts!! The Bible is just another jar of clay; it was not meant to be this inerrant book of magic!
I was sent by my Father to bring a message of love and compassion and hope and salvation and forgiveness to the world….and you twisted it to justify supporting all kinds ridiculous things, from torture to putting children in cages. And this Trump support? Dick move, man. This is a world leader more evil than Haman and more corrupt than Herod. And why did you do it?? Because…abortion? Pumpf, buddy, of course I’m pro-life, but I mention helping the poor 407 times in the gospels; I mentioned abortion not once. Zero. Zilch. Nulla. You really should’ve paid more attention in Sunday school.
Oh…one more thing…..C’mon, you really thought I, Jesus of Nazareth, would be for supply side economics???? LOL. Peter! Get him the H-E-double hockey sticks outta here! Next!
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I wish I could be a good boy, too, but just to many scars from the Nun's to not react. They taught me to know a theocracy and those who profess it.
I was raised in the bright and sunny light of devout Catholic parents: so fun! Every mass a joy to behold! Born sinner! Confession hilarity! Hypocrisy abounds!
Don't get me started: nothing worse than a former Catholic (me) as far as pissing in everyone's cornflakes. I'm like a former smoker that way.
I've gone the opposite direction. Started Baptist, then non-denominational Evangelical. Then married a devout Catholic and attended mass for years. I call myself Ecumenical now, but there were things about Catholicism that I used to ridicule when I was younger and sort of "got" later on. Like confession. Thought it was crazy early on. What, you can't just ask forgiveness to God through prayer? But I began to realize that there's a real benefit based in science to speaking your sins out loud to another person.
Anyway, there are things about it that I still find nutty though. Like transubstantiation. Sorry, Catholics, but if that cracker and wine were REALLY changing into the body and blood of Christ, then you wouldn't have to ring that little bell. LOL
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I wish I could be a good boy, too, but just to many scars from the Nun's to not react. They taught me to know a theocracy and those who profess it.
I was raised in the bright and sunny light of devout Catholic parents: so fun! Every mass a joy to behold! Born sinner! Confession hilarity! Hypocrisy abounds!
Don't get me started: nothing worse than a former Catholic (me) as far as pissing in everyone's cornflakes. I'm like a former smoker that way.
So many stories, all cliche, but still funny to tell. Parochial school, could recite the liturgy in Latin, French and English by the time I was five. Love being call an atheist, by someone denying being theocratic. Franciscans, Jesuits and Nun's, OH MY!
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I wish I could be a good boy, too, but just to many scars from the Nun's to not react. They taught me to know a theocracy and those who profess it.
I was raised in the bright and sunny light of devout Catholic parents: so fun! Every mass a joy to behold! Born sinner! Confession hilarity! Hypocrisy abounds!
Don't get me started: nothing worse than a former Catholic (me) as far as pissing in everyone's cornflakes. I'm like a former smoker that way.
I've gone the opposite direction. Started Baptist, then non-denominational Evangelical. Then married a devout Catholic and attended mass for years. I call myself Ecumenical now, but there were things about Catholicism that I used to ridicule when I was younger and sort of "got" later on. Like confession. Thought it was crazy early on. What, you can't just ask forgiveness to God through prayer? But I began to realize that there's a real benefit based in science to speaking your sins out loud to another person.
Anyway, there are things about it that I still find nutty though. Like transubstantiation. Sorry, Catholics, but if that cracker and wine were REALLY changing into the body and blood of Christ, then you wouldn't have to ring that little bell. LOL
The look of horror in a Alter boys face when an old priest misses the target, it hit's the floor, who can pick it up! I still light candles, when I tour the Old European Cathedrals.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I wish I could be a good boy, too, but just to many scars from the Nun's to not react. They taught me to know a theocracy and those who profess it.
I was raised in the bright and sunny light of devout Catholic parents: so fun! Every mass a joy to behold! Born sinner! Confession hilarity! Hypocrisy abounds!
Don't get me started: nothing worse than a former Catholic (me) as far as pissing in everyone's cornflakes. I'm like a former smoker that way.
I've gone the opposite direction. Started Baptist, then non-denominational Evangelical. Then married a devout Catholic and attended mass for years. I call myself Ecumenical now, but there were things about Catholicism that I used to ridicule when I was younger and sort of "got" later on. Like confession. Thought it was crazy early on. What, you can't just ask forgiveness to God through prayer? But I began to realize that there's a real benefit based in science to speaking your sins out loud to another person.
Anyway, there are things about it that I still find nutty though. Like transubstantiation. Sorry, Catholics, but if that cracker and wine were REALLY changing into the body and blood of Christ, then you wouldn't have to ring that little bell. LOL
The look of horror in a Alter boys face when an old priest misses the target, it hit's the floor, who can pick it up! I still light candles, when I tour the Old European Cathedrals.
I was an altar boy, non-raped mind you. Always have to qualify.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ BigAl99 said:
I wish I could be a good boy, too, but just to many scars from the Nun's to not react. They taught me to know a theocracy and those who profess it.
I was raised in the bright and sunny light of devout Catholic parents: so fun! Every mass a joy to behold! Born sinner! Confession hilarity! Hypocrisy abounds!
Don't get me started: nothing worse than a former Catholic (me) as far as pissing in everyone's cornflakes. I'm like a former smoker that way.
I've gone the opposite direction. Started Baptist, then non-denominational Evangelical. Then married a devout Catholic and attended mass for years. I call myself Ecumenical now, but there were things about Catholicism that I used to ridicule when I was younger and sort of "got" later on. Like confession. Thought it was crazy early on. What, you can't just ask forgiveness to God through prayer? But I began to realize that there's a real benefit based in science to speaking your sins out loud to another person.
Anyway, there are things about it that I still find nutty though. Like transubstantiation. Sorry, Catholics, but if that cracker and wine were REALLY changing into the body and blood of Christ, then you wouldn't have to ring that little bell. LOL
The look of horror in a Alter boys face when an old priest misses the target, it hit's the floor, who can pick it up! I still light candles, when I tour the Old European Cathedrals.
I was an altar boy, non-raped mind you. Always have to qualify.
That's the one abuse I never saw or heard of in my experiences. What I found really interesting, was I went to my 40th HS reunion( only one), and the folks I spent the most time talking to were the one's I went to parochial school with. My guess it was a survivor thing, a lot of us didn't make it.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
Fair enough. But, again: going back to the analogy I used about your biography... if you wrote one thing in your book... and then someone else said that you wrote something completely different: who's right? Which "interpretation" is the right one: the one that actually repeats what you, yourself said... or the one that rejects the "literal" words you wrote, in favor of their own, personal interpretation? I think most rational people would take you at your word and "interpret" your book to mean what you actually wrote.
Both. Someone might, in fact probably would, read my biography and discover things about me that I'm not even aware of. The Bible's like that.
If you're going to take the position that, by my interpretations of the Bible, I am going to teach God about Himself... I'm just going to have to disagree. I don't even know how that would be possible. But I doubt very much that, if I were to "interpret" your comments... and then tell you what you REALLY meant... that you'd be a big fan of it. Besides, a person can have insights into another person, because we're both "persons". I don't know how a fallible, limited human being can have insights into the true nature of God. That endeavor, would seem to me, to be the height of arrogance.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
...and guess what? That person might be right. And you might be wrong. I still find it impossible to accept that Jews, for example, among others, who have spent their entire lives dedicated to serving God and their communities are going to burn in endless fires of hell with no hope of death.
Put away your bible and think about that for a bit and what does your gut tell you? Your God-given intellect? Tells me that pastor might be right. You may not like that... or agree with it... but that IS what the Bible says. And the Bible is the source for orthodox (correct) teachings (not my feelings or my gut).
Ever consider the possibility that you might be wrong? I know, crazy, right? Probably something you’ve never even once considered. But imagine when you go to meet your maker, he stops you at the gate and says “Dude, what in the name of ME were you thinking!!??” You weren’t supposed to take that stuff literally, numb nuts!! The Bible is just another jar of clay; it was not meant to be this inerrant book of magic!
I was sent by my Father to bring a message of love and compassion and hope and salvation and forgiveness to the world….and you twisted it to justify supporting all kinds ridiculous things, from torture to putting children in cages. And this Trump support? Dick move, man. This is a world leader more evil than Haman and more corrupt than Herod. And why did you do it?? Because…abortion? Pumpf, buddy, of course I’m pro-life, but I mention helping the poor 407 times in the gospels; I mentioned abortion not once. Zero. Zilch. Nulla. You really should’ve paid more attention in Sunday school.
Oh…one more thing…..C’mon, you really thought I, Jesus of Nazareth, would be for supply side economics???? LOL. Peter! Get him the H-E-double hockey sticks outta here! Next!
By discussing this in terms of "right" and "wrong", you seem to be acknowledging that there is such a thing (when it comes to interpreting the Bible). So, let me ask you a question (which I hope you will answer): how can ANYONE know what is "right" and "wrong"?
As for the rest, you seem interested in talking about ME, rather than staying on topic. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole.
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