06-09-2020, 11:54 PM
Quote: @mblack said:
Hey, we agree! I agree with everything that you said. My only point of contention is this: we can't. We can't stop people from treating other people terribly. If they have glasses, people will mock them for it. If they are fat, they'll be bullied for that. If they're ___________ (fill in the blank), other people will treat them terribly because of it. I won't presume to know how you feel about human nature, but- as a Christian- I believe that we are- all of us- sinful people. Our very nature is self-centered and evil. That's why we needed a Savior. Knowing that: I know that we will NEVER be able to control the thoughts of others. We can DEFINITELY do things to help people move past their ignorant (evil) feelings... and strive to treat others with respect and love. The question is: can we do that, A) if we assume that people are inherently good... and, B), if we continue to go out of our way to divide people into various groups?@pumpf said:
Regarding the red part. I guess its only the 'black' people that have been 'conditioned' that the world is out to get them. 'Whites' (and I am generalizing so I apologize) have not been 'conditioned' to think the world is fair and there is nothing wrong right? But yet here we are.@mblack said:
The racism is prevalent. More than you think. Mostly unconscious and being normalized but it is. It's in restaurants, dealerships, valet parking etc. Places you don't normally think. I am not talking work or career advancement which could be subjective. Just simple day to day encounters. You may not see it but it's there. And I am talking from experience.
All these may be one offs you say but they happen to many people on a day to day basis. And when these happen to a person over and over it's hard to listen to people like you brush it or say it's not that bad. Remember, they have to normalize some of these just to be be able to get through. So please don't say it's not prevalent So what is it... when these things happen to white people?
- When you go to a high end dealership to buy a car with a check and have to ask for help from four different people and spend over an hour waiting because you really like the car but they choose to help "others" then you know something is off.
- When you go to a valet parking and you are shown the next spot to park your car then you know something is off
- When you go to the T-Wolves game with a first row season ticket and they have to 'make sure' you are at the right spot and even ask you not to walk courtside then you know something is off.
- When you go to a high end restaurant with friends with the reservation under your name and you called the waiter and get the order going yet the same waiter presents the bill to your 'white' friend then you know something is off
- When you finally get the car you like (not the same dealership as 1 above) test drive it and ask all the questions and sales manager comes in to talk numbers and focuses on your 'white' friend then you know something is off.
Let's be honest: if you have been conditioned your whole life to believe that there is a "conspiracy" that is out to get you... that hates you and will never treat you as an equal member of society, you are going to see "it" in every interaction that doesn't go your way. My white daughter got a visit from the police, just for sitting in a field watching the sunset with a couple of her friends. And she was scared, too, even though she knew that she wasn't doing anything wrong. Now, if she was black, she would probably think that it was because of her skin color. But, since she isn't, it just turned out to be an awkward encounter.
Perception isn't reality, although it seems that way to the person who is "seeing" it. As for "unconscious racism", I don't even know what to say. People make judgments about other people every day: noting how fat they are... or how tall... or how they're dressed... or their hair. And it has nothing to do with 'racism" and everything to do with our imperfections as human beings. We don't give value to other people unless we determine that they are- somehow- worthy of it. Otherwise, they are just an "other" that has no particular value or worth to us. Black people experience that- because everybody expiences it! It's just that they are the only ones conditioned to believe that the ignorance of others is specifically directed at them.
At the bold. That is the point I am making. These so called 'judgments' you refer to do not need to happen. That is what as a society we should work on eliminating. Yes your daughter had an 'awkward' encounter with the police (thank goodness it was just that). Companies are working hard to eradicate these preconceived judgments because they see how negatively it affects team dynamics and productivity and how much better teams and groups are when they don't resort to these preconceived judgments. There is an abundance of empirical evidence to support this but yet we are here normalizing it. From your post above, I should be OK with the bias because that is just how 'you' see things. So I should just get on with the bias right? I'll leave you with these snippets...
Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race [in this case color] is superior.
Sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
Weightism: stigmatization, bullying, prejudice, and discrimination against overweight and obese individuals based on their body weight and appearance
Heightism: prejudice or discrimination against individuals based on height. In principle, it refers to the discriminatory treatment against individuals whose height is not within the normal acceptable range of height in a population.
You see the similarity of the above? Any prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination against anyone is wrong. Above I cited the race version. Now add the sexism, weight bias and other forms of conscious or unconscious bias on top of that and you start to get the picture. My point being, take whatever bias you may experience as a 'white' person and add the race one to it.
