Quote: @MaroonBells said:
I don't think it's necessarily a smokescreen or negotiating. It's just the truth. Everyone knows it. $22M to $25M going to your safety position, with almost nothing going to corner, is just not going to be successful.
Personally, I'd take Harris over Harry, but that's not likely. I think we're a better team if we use Harris' money (plus some) to sign a top corner like Byron Jones and then draft a safety to compete with (more likely replace) Sendejo in the 2nd round. Just think thats a little better roster construction.
The only thing I'll counter to that... you're counting on a good cover CB who doesn't generate many turnovers (2 INTs for his career) to come in and play well in our defense? In a league where they are making it more and more difficult for CBs to cover WRs... Meanwhile, we're letting a player who we've developed and is still in his prime walk... the same guy who has been involved in 10 turnovers in not even two full seasons of starting for us? To put that in perspective, the Vikings defense has generated 51 turnovers in the past two season and Harris has been involved in approximately 20% of them.
I guess I would rather pay big money for a guy we know fits our scheme and is a huge part of our defense. He's also the one who picked off Brees in the Wild Card upset. I get the idea of not wanting to pay your starting safeties a bunch of money, but I think it would be better to re-sign Harris and use one of our Day 2 picks to tap into a deep CB class in this year's draft.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
I don't think it's necessarily a smokescreen or negotiating. It's just the truth. Everyone knows it. $22M to $25M going to your safety position, with almost nothing going to corner, is just not going to be successful.
Personally, I'd take Harris over Harry, but that's not likely. I think we're a better team if we use Harris' money (plus some) to sign a top corner like Byron Jones and then draft a safety to compete with (more likely replace) Sendejo in the 2nd round. Just think thats a little better roster construction.
The only thing I'll counter to that... you're counting on a good cover CB who doesn't generate many turnovers (2 INTs for his career) to come in and play well in our defense? In a league where they are making it more and more difficult for CBs to cover WRs... Meanwhile, we're letting a player who we've developed and is still in his prime walk... the same guy who has been involved in 10 turnovers in not even two full seasons of starting for us? To put that in perspective, the Vikings defense has generated 51 turnovers in the past two season and Harris has been involved in approximately 20% of them.
I guess I would rather pay big money for a guy we know fits our scheme and is a huge part of our defense. He's also the one who picked off Brees in the Wild Card upset. I get the idea of not wanting to pay your starting safeties a bunch of money, but I think it would be better to re-sign Harris and use one of our Day 2 picks to tap into a deep CB class in this year's draft.
Yup. I've said it before, ball-hawks are rarer than hen's teeth. Extending Xavier and Griff seems short-sighted.
Turnovers will put the ball in the offenses hands too quickly.
Maybe that's what Zim doesn't like.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
Turnovers will put the ball in the offenses hands too quickly.
Maybe that's what Zim doesn't like.
LOL!
I think if we can get pressure up the middle with a 3 tech that will change a lot of things with the secondary.
Quote: @Canthony said:
@ suncoastvike said:
Turnovers will put the ball in the offenses hands too quickly.
Maybe that's what Zim doesn't like.
LOL!
I think if we can get pressure up the middle with a 3 tech that will change a lot of things with the secondary.
Not enough. No team, even San Francisco with what, six 1st Round Picks on their D-Line, gets pressure on every single passing down. As Zimmer's Defense gets more and more 'Bend and Hope It Doesn't Break' it will need to rely more and more on forcing TOs to offset how much TOP it gives up. Losing Harris will only hurt that.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Canthony said:
@ suncoastvike said:
Turnovers will put the ball in the offenses hands too quickly.
Maybe that's what Zim doesn't like.
LOL!
I think if we can get pressure up the middle with a 3 tech that will change a lot of things with the secondary.
Not enough. No team, even San Francisco with what, six 1st Round Picks on their D-Line, gets pressure on every single passing down. As Zimmer's Defense gets more and more 'Bend and Hope It Doesn't Break' it will need to rely more and more on forcing TOs to offset how much TOP it gives up. Losing Harris will only hurt that.
i think using the draft to find the 3T ( and I think we need to add help at nose as well) and using free agency to keep our deep safety solid (resign Harris) will be the best approach to help our passing game. We need to become less dependent on superior play from our CBs to carry the D. this will make CBs easier to find that can play in this system...maybe even find them at the 7-11.
Love Harris and his story it really is the American dream. Working hard doing the smart things and patience! Hope the best for him!
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Canthony said:
@ suncoastvike said:
Turnovers will put the ball in the offenses hands too quickly.
Maybe that's what Zim doesn't like.
LOL!
I think if we can get pressure up the middle with a 3 tech that will change a lot of things with the secondary.
Not enough. No team, even San Francisco with what, six 1st Round Picks on their D-Line, gets pressure on every single passing down. As Zimmer's Defense gets more and more 'Bend and Hope It Doesn't Break' it will need to rely more and more on forcing TOs to offset how much TOP it gives up. Losing Harris will only hurt that.
i think using the draft to find the 3T ( and I think we need to add help at nose as well) and using free agency to keep our deep safety solid (resign Harris) will be the best approach to help our passing game. We need to become less dependent on superior play from our CBs to carry the D. this will make CBs easier to find that can play in this system...maybe even find them at the 7-11.
Jimmy, I agree. The best CB's in the game can't keep up with the elite receivers and TE's after 4 or 5 seconds. That QB has to be disrupted by edge pressure or tackle pressure to make him check down, throw it away or take a sack. Paul Krause gave all the credit to his D line for his NFL INT record.
Harris is a complete bad ass.
Harris has done own version of Thielen
Week #1 2019. He won POW with 3? INT's , didn't help.
Congrats to him, he's earned all his success!
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Canthony said:
@ suncoastvike said:
Turnovers will put the ball in the offenses hands too quickly.
Maybe that's what Zim doesn't like.
LOL!
I think if we can get pressure up the middle with a 3 tech that will change a lot of things with the secondary.
Not enough. No team, even San Francisco with what, six 1st Round Picks on their D-Line, gets pressure on every single passing down. As Zimmer's Defense gets more and more 'Bend and Hope It Doesn't Break' it will need to rely more and more on forcing TOs to offset how much TOP it gives up. Losing Harris will only hurt that.
Did Zimmer play more zone last year because he was really into it, or was he grinding his teeth and secretly vowing, "So help me god I'll never be stuck with this personnel limitation again"?? Because he has run man-coverage CB-centric defenses for 30 years and I don't buy that he's changed his spots.
And where is the past evidence to suggest Zimmer might be doing a "smokescreen" in his comments about Harris? He said he loved Barr and they kept Barr. He told everyone he didn't trust Keenum and they dumped Keenum. This is not a coach full of nuances.
My translation of his comments about Harris: "Some other team can overpay for his interceptions. Every INT was a gamble and a bunch of other times he tried for a pick and missed his coverage." Zimmer lets Smith - and only Smith - freelance a bit. His defenses have always been relatively low in turnovers because Zimmer wants his players disciplined and working to stifle the opposing team, not gambling for INTs.
I think they let Harris walk, pay to keep Alexander and/or Waynes, pick a CB in the top 2 rounds (no 7-11 CBs for Zimmer), and Rhodes will still be a Viking. Maybe Zimmer will find a new role for Rhodes - even if he's lost a couple steps he's probably faster than Kearse so use him at Big Nickel or something.
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