Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ greediron said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
After two years of OC's with no prior experience, it should be much better to have one with a history of success that will also keep the current scheme intact. Hopefully they can upgrade the personnel.
That was my thoughts as well. Since Shurmur left, our offense has been shaky at times. I pin much of the struggles this year on play calling. Bears game, half of Denver, Packers, SF, some of the play calling didn't give KC much of a chance. Couldn't run, and Stef seemed very slow to adjust.
Funny thing is, the Denver game, we adjusted in the second half and KC kicked ass. But that was in a hurry up. Why Stef wouldn't switch to that in some of those other games still baffles me.
Cousins said Kevin waited until they were about to leave the locker room at the end of halftime before he finally committed to the Hurry-up.
Think about that. Down 20. Haven't scored a single point. And the OC is struggling to pull the trigger on making an in-game adjustment. Kevin waited a long time to be an OC and once he got the job I think he was so sure of the schemes he'd worked so long to perfect that he literally couldn't get out of his own way when they weren't working.
My biggest question for Gary is will he develop a short and intermediate passing game. One of the posted articles referenced how he loves Play Action and Boots/Waggles to Deep Crossers.
Well, that won't work when the running game is stuck in the mud and teams are watching out for the boots/waggles. Kirk doesn't have enough time in the pocket nor the movement skills to create extra time for the Deep Crossers to come open. Especially with doubleteams.
Can Gary go Hurry-up? Or sit Kirk in Shotgun? Or call quick slants? Stefanski seemed allergic to doing it unless the team was in a deep hole or in the 2 minute Offense. And yet, when they did use it the results were positive.
That's my biggest question. Will Gary adjust when facing the Packers and 9ers and that Seattle crowd noise that artificially improves their pass rush?
That is what confused me. When the went tempo or in the 2 minute offense, KC was lights out.
As to Kubiak, yeah, I think he has the experience to adjust.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
lots of faith for a guy that was in the previous OCs ear during the game in a mentoring role. If Kubiak is as wise as some hope he will be.... why didnt he make the same suggestions to stefanski that some of you think he will make as the play caller? no offense but all we heard when he got here was he was the defacto OC and Stefanski would be getting his cues from Kubiak, Kubiaks offense, Kubiaks game plan. etc etc well then when it failed it was Stefanskis follie and somehow now Kubiak is going to make it all better? I am not buying it. there is only one thing that will make this offense better and that is to improve the OL play.
Not being flippant here, but have you coached before? If so, have you called offense or defense? I haven't either, but I have been there helping them and watched them closely. I thought it would be fun to call defense, but at one point was sort of the co-defensive coordinator and was involved in the game planning. The other guy called the plays and I developed a healthy respect for the ability to do that in real time. I think offense is worse, you have to have a feel for the game, creativity, but with the ability to stick to your plan.
I say all that to say, who says Kubiak didn't suggest things? But Stef was the play caller, doing it by committee wouldn't work, one guy has to own it and sink or swim. I imagine Kubiak had to give him some space to do it his way and make the calls.
And you ask why we think Kubiak will be better? Because has done it and done it well. Guy has established that he can do it and with lots of different personnel. That is something not many coaches can say.
yes i have coached, several different sports.
if you want to have faith in him.. thats your perogative, but like I said, this was called Kubiaks O since he got here and that Stef was basically a tool of kubiaks but when it doesnt work then Stef didnt know what he was doing. I will have to see it to believe it, but like I said, if they dont fix the OL it wont matter who is calling plays or under center, this team will not compete with the better teams in the league.
what irritates me the most about the coaching and playcalling are the two losses to the Packers and the early loss to the Bears. There is no way this talent, even with the shortcomings at Offensive line, should not have been able to put up 30 points in all those games. The Bears and Packers defenses were nothing great this year and were absolutely blown out at times.
Quote: @PSBLAKE said:
what irritates me the most about the coaching and playcalling are the two losses to the Packers and the early loss to the Bears. There is no way this talent, even with the shortcomings at Offensive line, should not have been able to put up 30 points in all those games. The Bears and Packers defenses were nothing great this year and were absolutely blown out at times.
they have athletic strong DTs that destroyed our interior OL, that is the common theme with all the defenses that made our O look pedestrian, we couldnt handle those quick strong guys up the gut.
I’d like Kubiak and staff to study the Niners offense and creative play design and see if they can incorporate some of that into ours. I think overall creativity, play design and especially how they blocked up the Packers in the run game would be beneficial for us to look at.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
lots of faith for a guy that was in the previous OCs ear during the game in a mentoring role. If Kubiak is as wise as some hope he will be.... why didnt he make the same suggestions to stefanski that some of you think he will make as the play caller? no offense but all we heard when he got here was he was the defacto OC and Stefanski would be getting his cues from Kubiak, Kubiaks offense, Kubiaks game plan. etc etc well then when it failed it was Stefanskis follie and somehow now Kubiak is going to make it all better? I am not buying it. there is only one thing that will make this offense better and that is to improve the OL play.
Not being flippant here, but have you coached before? If so, have you called offense or defense? I haven't either, but I have been there helping them and watched them closely. I thought it would be fun to call defense, but at one point was sort of the co-defensive coordinator and was involved in the game planning. The other guy called the plays and I developed a healthy respect for the ability to do that in real time. I think offense is worse, you have to have a feel for the game, creativity, but with the ability to stick to your plan.
I say all that to say, who says Kubiak didn't suggest things? But Stef was the play caller, doing it by committee wouldn't work, one guy has to own it and sink or swim. I imagine Kubiak had to give him some space to do it his way and make the calls.
And you ask why we think Kubiak will be better? Because has done it and done it well. Guy has established that he can do it and with lots of different personnel. That is something not many coaches can say.
yes i have coached, several different sports.
if you want to have faith in him.. thats your perogative, but like I said, this was called Kubiaks O since he got here and that Stef was basically a tool of kubiaks but when it doesnt work then Stef didnt know what he was doing. I will have to see it to believe it, but like I said, if they dont fix the OL it wont matter who is calling plays or under center, this team will not compete with the better teams in the league.
Agree about the OL; disagree about their functions. I don't think any of us can say with any kind of certainty what their working relationship was like, but I feel pretty confident that while Kubiak was probably involved in game prep, Stefanski was the one calling the plays. To do it any other way would be dysfunctional.
Sure, it's possible that Kubiak is the one to blame for our offensive ineptitude against Green Bay and San Francisco. It's also possible that he was frustrated by what Stefanski was doing with his offense and accepted the OC role because he thought he could do something about it.
The only thing I know for sure is that Stefanski was a 1st year play caller in an offense he didn't design. And that Kubiak, as a play caller of his own offense, has won a Super Bowl.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
lots of faith for a guy that was in the previous OCs ear during the game in a mentoring role. If Kubiak is as wise as some hope he will be.... why didnt he make the same suggestions to stefanski that some of you think he will make as the play caller? no offense but all we heard when he got here was he was the defacto OC and Stefanski would be getting his cues from Kubiak, Kubiaks offense, Kubiaks game plan. etc etc well then when it failed it was Stefanskis follie and somehow now Kubiak is going to make it all better? I am not buying it. there is only one thing that will make this offense better and that is to improve the OL play.
Not being flippant here, but have you coached before? If so, have you called offense or defense? I haven't either, but I have been there helping them and watched them closely. I thought it would be fun to call defense, but at one point was sort of the co-defensive coordinator and was involved in the game planning. The other guy called the plays and I developed a healthy respect for the ability to do that in real time. I think offense is worse, you have to have a feel for the game, creativity, but with the ability to stick to your plan.
I say all that to say, who says Kubiak didn't suggest things? But Stef was the play caller, doing it by committee wouldn't work, one guy has to own it and sink or swim. I imagine Kubiak had to give him some space to do it his way and make the calls.
And you ask why we think Kubiak will be better? Because has done it and done it well. Guy has established that he can do it and with lots of different personnel. That is something not many coaches can say.
yes i have coached, several different sports.
if you want to have faith in him.. thats your perogative, but like I said, this was called Kubiaks O since he got here and that Stef was basically a tool of kubiaks but when it doesnt work then Stef didnt know what he was doing. I will have to see it to believe it, but like I said, if they dont fix the OL it wont matter who is calling plays or under center, this team will not compete with the better teams in the league.
Agree about the OL; disagree about their functions. I don't think any of us can say with any kind of certainty what their working relationship was like, but I feel pretty confident that while Kubiak was probably involved in game prep, Stefanski was the one calling the plays. To do it any other way would be dysfunctional.
Sure, it's possible that Kubiak is the one to blame for our offensive ineptitude against Green Bay and San Francisco. It's also possible that he was frustrated by what Stefanski was doing with his offense and accepted the OC role because he thought he could do something about it.
The only thing I know for sure is that Stefanski was a 1st year play caller in an offense he didn't design. And that Kubiak, as a play caller of his own offense, has won a Super Bowl.
my primary point is this.... if the offensive failures were play calling as some suggest and the solutions were as simple as some suggest.... why wouldnt the great and powerful man behind the curtain whisper in his proteges ear these very basic solutions during the games to help get his offense on track and help the team? I dont think simply improving play calling is going to do much. the failures of the offense were once again simply the lack of quality oline play. i dont think there was any magic card full of plays that would have allowed our slow weak interior left to suddenly function at a higher level or cover up their ineptness.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
lots of faith for a guy that was in the previous OCs ear during the game in a mentoring role. If Kubiak is as wise as some hope he will be.... why didnt he make the same suggestions to stefanski that some of you think he will make as the play caller? no offense but all we heard when he got here was he was the defacto OC and Stefanski would be getting his cues from Kubiak, Kubiaks offense, Kubiaks game plan. etc etc well then when it failed it was Stefanskis follie and somehow now Kubiak is going to make it all better? I am not buying it. there is only one thing that will make this offense better and that is to improve the OL play.
Not being flippant here, but have you coached before? If so, have you called offense or defense? I haven't either, but I have been there helping them and watched them closely. I thought it would be fun to call defense, but at one point was sort of the co-defensive coordinator and was involved in the game planning. The other guy called the plays and I developed a healthy respect for the ability to do that in real time. I think offense is worse, you have to have a feel for the game, creativity, but with the ability to stick to your plan.
I say all that to say, who says Kubiak didn't suggest things? But Stef was the play caller, doing it by committee wouldn't work, one guy has to own it and sink or swim. I imagine Kubiak had to give him some space to do it his way and make the calls.
And you ask why we think Kubiak will be better? Because has done it and done it well. Guy has established that he can do it and with lots of different personnel. That is something not many coaches can say.
yes i have coached, several different sports.
if you want to have faith in him.. thats your perogative, but like I said, this was called Kubiaks O since he got here and that Stef was basically a tool of kubiaks but when it doesnt work then Stef didnt know what he was doing. I will have to see it to believe it, but like I said, if they dont fix the OL it wont matter who is calling plays or under center, this team will not compete with the better teams in the league.
Agree about the OL; disagree about their functions. I don't think any of us can say with any kind of certainty what their working relationship was like, but I feel pretty confident that while Kubiak was probably involved in game prep, Stefanski was the one calling the plays. To do it any other way would be dysfunctional.
Sure, it's possible that Kubiak is the one to blame for our offensive ineptitude against Green Bay and San Francisco. It's also possible that he was frustrated by what Stefanski was doing with his offense and accepted the OC role because he thought he could do something about it.
The only thing I know for sure is that Stefanski was a 1st year play caller in an offense he didn't design. And that Kubiak, as a play caller of his own offense, has won a Super Bowl.
my primary point is this.... if the offensive failures were play calling as some suggest and the solutions were as simple as some suggest.... why wouldnt the great and powerful man behind the curtain whisper in his proteges ear these very basic solutions during the games to help get his offense on track and help the team? I dont think simply improving play calling is going to do much. the failures of the offense were once again simply the lack of quality oline play. i dont think there was any magic card full of plays that would have allowed our slow weak interior left to suddenly function at a higher level or cover up their ineptness.
Because Stefanski was S.T.U.B.B.O.R.N.
Gary was brought in to Mentor. Not boss. Kirk himself said it was Kevin's decision to go Hurry-up at halftime against the Broncos. And he almost didn't do it. Had to talk himself into it.
If Kubiak had made the call why didn't he do it again in the Green Bay or Seattle games? Why wait until the 4th Quarter when you weren't afraid to pull the trigger at halftime?
It's obvious: because Gary wasn't calling the shots. Kevin was. And he was so enamored with what he had morphed Gary's system into he couldn't bring himself to adjust but the one time when it wasn't working.
That's the arrogance of youth, plain and simple. Stefanski had the 2 minute drive before halftime of the Dallas game and the entire 2nd half of the Broncos along with a few other instances that proved he could switch schemes and get results. But he refused to do it until it was late in games against the Packers, Bears, Hags, Packers and 9ers.
Not learning from mistakes is also a hallmark of youth. And like DeFloppo, Kevin was a youngster as a Playcaller.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
lots of faith for a guy that was in the previous OCs ear during the game in a mentoring role. If Kubiak is as wise as some hope he will be.... why didnt he make the same suggestions to stefanski that some of you think he will make as the play caller? no offense but all we heard when he got here was he was the defacto OC and Stefanski would be getting his cues from Kubiak, Kubiaks offense, Kubiaks game plan. etc etc well then when it failed it was Stefanskis follie and somehow now Kubiak is going to make it all better? I am not buying it. there is only one thing that will make this offense better and that is to improve the OL play.
Not being flippant here, but have you coached before? If so, have you called offense or defense? I haven't either, but I have been there helping them and watched them closely. I thought it would be fun to call defense, but at one point was sort of the co-defensive coordinator and was involved in the game planning. The other guy called the plays and I developed a healthy respect for the ability to do that in real time. I think offense is worse, you have to have a feel for the game, creativity, but with the ability to stick to your plan.
I say all that to say, who says Kubiak didn't suggest things? But Stef was the play caller, doing it by committee wouldn't work, one guy has to own it and sink or swim. I imagine Kubiak had to give him some space to do it his way and make the calls.
And you ask why we think Kubiak will be better? Because has done it and done it well. Guy has established that he can do it and with lots of different personnel. That is something not many coaches can say.
yes i have coached, several different sports.
if you want to have faith in him.. thats your perogative, but like I said, this was called Kubiaks O since he got here and that Stef was basically a tool of kubiaks but when it doesnt work then Stef didnt know what he was doing. I will have to see it to believe it, but like I said, if they dont fix the OL it wont matter who is calling plays or under center, this team will not compete with the better teams in the league.
Agree about the OL; disagree about their functions. I don't think any of us can say with any kind of certainty what their working relationship was like, but I feel pretty confident that while Kubiak was probably involved in game prep, Stefanski was the one calling the plays. To do it any other way would be dysfunctional.
Sure, it's possible that Kubiak is the one to blame for our offensive ineptitude against Green Bay and San Francisco. It's also possible that he was frustrated by what Stefanski was doing with his offense and accepted the OC role because he thought he could do something about it.
The only thing I know for sure is that Stefanski was a 1st year play caller in an offense he didn't design. And that Kubiak, as a play caller of his own offense, has won a Super Bowl.
my primary point is this.... if the offensive failures were play calling as some suggest and the solutions were as simple as some suggest.... why wouldnt the great and powerful man behind the curtain whisper in his proteges ear these very basic solutions during the games to help get his offense on track and help the team? I dont think simply improving play calling is going to do much. the failures of the offense were once again simply the lack of quality oline play. i dont think there was any magic card full of plays that would have allowed our slow weak interior left to suddenly function at a higher level or cover up their ineptness.
Because Stefanski was S.T.U.B.B.O.R.N.
Gary was brought in to Mentor. Not boss. Kirk himself said it was Kevin's decision to go Hurry-up at halftime against the Broncos. And he almost didn't do it. Had to talk himself into it.
If Kubiak had made the call why didn't he do it again in the Green Bay or Seattle games? Why wait until the 4th Quarter when you weren't afraid to pull the trigger at halftime?
It's obvious: because Gary wasn't calling the shots. Kevin was. And he was so enamored with what he had morphed Gary's system into he couldn't bring himself to adjust but the one time when it wasn't working.
That's the arrogance of youth, plain and simple. Stefanski had the 2 minute drive before halftime of the Dallas game and the entire 2nd half of the Broncos along with a few other instances that proved he could switch schemes and get results. But he refused to do it until it was late in games against the Packers, Bears, Hags, Packers and 9ers.
Not learning from mistakes is also a hallmark of youth. And like DeFloppo, Kevin was a youngster as a Playcaller.
Where do you get the stuff about the denver game? The part about Stefanski being the one not to go hurry up. That has been a long standing complaint about offenses under Zimmer is the lack of use of tempo to get the O clicking. I dont give a shit about Stefanski, but I would bet that the lack of tempo is more of a Zimmer directive then Stefanski not wanting to do it What O guy doesnt want to go faster?
At least we all agree that the Super Bowl parade can be scheduled now.
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