Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
I don't know..do you think if Zimmer quit this job he would be snapped up by another NFL team as HC? Could be, but I have my doubts. He was a 20-year assistant, interviewed and passed over for HC jobs four times before we hired him, and now he's a 62-year-old defensive coach in a league that loves under-40 offensive coaches. This is his shot - and Spielman gave it to him.
However, I also think it's unlikely Spielman makes game day decisions. But if you cut Jarius Wright and keep Laquon Treadwell, you're making preferences pretty clear to your coach, if not forcing his hand.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Exactly. For those that criticize Zim as out of touch and unwilling to change, yet think that he is Rick's lackey... Baffling is the only thought that comes to mine.
Treadwell plays because he is a solid #3. Big bodied and has been fairly consistent since he hit bottom against GB. The DB made a great play to swat that 4th down catch out of his hands. Or is it only a great play when our DBs do that? That wasn't the reason we lost. Our two stud WRs made two crucial mistakes. It happens. Thielen needs to protect better when cutting back inside. You have to know you are going to get blasted when you cut back inside. Digg's mistake was bigger IMO. That wasn't a great play by the defense (like Thielen's or Treadwell's mistake) it was just a boneheaded play. He owned it and we move on, but it was a bad play that had a bad result.
So any anger at Treadwell should be secondary to anger directed at Adam and Diggs.
Except for the fact that Diggs and Thielen have long histories of producing for this team. For Treadwell, it was just one more f*ck up in a long line of them and making tough contested catches was supposed to be his forte. For the 3rd year in a row, he is being out-performed by the 4th string WR. This year it is a 30 year old WR they signed off the street in mid-September.
how about comparing apples to apples, Robinson isnt asked to do what Treadwell is doing. They are not competing for the same routes and snaps. Robinson isnt nearly as impressive when asked to go across the middle and play in the trees. he is a little fast guy that can get behind defenses when they arent expecting a deep shot. his usage is what makes him shine, Treadwell is asked to run the dirty routes and do the dirty work in the run game, Robinson would get his ass handed to him if he had to block a LB on a stretch run.
Although I have advocated for more Robinson, I made a point to watch both Sunday and you are absolutely right - running very different routes. I think Robinson could be sprinkled into the mix a bit more often, though.
I think Treadwell is effectively playing TE, or the role TEs fill in the Eagles' offense.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
It's a business... It's a business... how many times have we heard that? Could it be that Treadwell is seeing the field so hopefully he raises his stock before traded away? And IF he improves a bunch.. then we can keep him? What if he's already gone by the end of the season and all that other teams have on him is that he can't catch when counted on. Do you think they'd be interested? It makes good "business sense" to keep him out there and hope he gets better so you can get some value out of him, doesn't it?
so you are saying that even though he is inferior and could be costing us wins and ultimately a playoff spot that the coaches are playing him in hopes of netting a late round compensatory pick or maybe even a late round draft pick in trade? sorry in the cut throat business of the nfl, no way a coach puts a player out there for anything but production IMO. That first round pick is lost and IMO no longer has a bearing on him being on the field.
Production would say to me that Robinson is our 3rd WR or anyone with more than 20 catches(or what small number he has, didn't bother looking it up) in 2.5 years. If you don't think coaches/GMs in this league have forced a player onto the field to prove a point... well you missed a fairly obvious example in Josh "I hope my wide receivers are 10ft tall" Freeman, IMO. Just because they don't make it as obvious as Jerry Jones, doesn't mean it's not happening.
All I said was it would be best to play him and hope he gets better to make him more valuable to the org... either as trade or as an improved player.
But if you want to look at plain production. Treadwell hasn't done much of anything his 2.5 years here. 1 TD. and multiple costly drops, some that turned into drive killing INTs, certainly isn't adding to our wins. He's 5 out of 9 for 50 yards over the middle in 8 games. He has 25 receptions this year( I finally looked it up) 20 of them are either Left or Right side of the field. And it is actually 10 catches short Left and 10 catches short Right. I'll just post it this way.
Short left. - Targeted 11 times, caught 10. 90% catch rate.
Short Middle - Targeted 9 times, caught 5. 55% catch rate.
Short Right - Targeted 16 times, caught 10. 62% catch rate.Deep Left - Targeted 1 time. caught 0. 0% catch rate.
It doesn't appear that his current skills are made for "over the middle". He hasn't performed well in traffic and it appears the Vikings don't use the middle of the field much anyway. They target the middle of the field with 22% of their pass plays. They go left 35% and they go right 42% of the time. So he's on the field for his blocking, we took a blocking WR with our #1 pick in the draft... that's the best that can be said about him... for now. I hope he improves his catching and scoring numbers. He was left alone and wide open for a TD last game but Cousins didn't see it.. part of that anger led up to the throwing of the helmet. He just needs to improve his game or soon he will be riding pine/gone. IMO.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
I don't know..do you think if Zimmer quit this job he would be snapped up by another NFL team as HC? Could be, but I have my doubts. He was a 20-year assistant, interviewed and passed over for HC jobs four times before we hired him, and now he's a 62-year-old defensive coach in a league that loves under-40 offensive coaches. This is his shot - and Spielman gave it to him.
However, I also think it's unlikely Spielman makes game day decisions. But if you cut Jarius Wright and keep Laquon Treadwell, you're making preferences pretty clear to your coach, if not forcing his hand. Again, Jarius and Treadwell are not the same type of WRs and not interchangeable. IMO Jarius was like the backup QB that is always so popular. Looks good in preseason and everyone wonders why he isn't playing. Jarius didn't play special teams and didn't seem to do the little things that elevate a role player, blocking, learning other WR positions. So I never got the Jarius love. He was a bit player and that was about it. About the only WR to stick around out of a very poor WR group for many years.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Jor-El said:
I don't know..do you think if Zimmer quit this job he would be snapped up by another NFL team as HC? Could be, but I have my doubts. He was a 20-year assistant, interviewed and passed over for HC jobs four times before we hired him, and now he's a 62-year-old defensive coach in a league that loves under-40 offensive coaches. This is his shot - and Spielman gave it to him.
However, I also think it's unlikely Spielman makes game day decisions. But if you cut Jarius Wright and keep Laquon Treadwell, you're making preferences pretty clear to your coach, if not forcing his hand.Again, Jarius and Treadwell are not the same type of WRs and not interchangeable. IMO Jarius was like the backup QB that is always so popular. Looks good in preseason and everyone wonders why he isn't playing. Jarius didn't play special teams and didn't seem to do the little things that elevate a role player, blocking, learning other WR positions. So I never got the Jarius love. He was a bit player and that was about it. About the only WR to stick around out of a very poor WR group for many years.
Not to go too far defending Wright, but he caught 100 passes in his first 3 seasons, 42 in 2014 - all regular season catches. That's more than decent for a #3 and much more than "good in preseason". That description actually fits Treadwell, doesn't it? Jarius was a very solid contributor until 2016. I could imply his dropoff had to do with Treadwell being drafted, but the emergence of Thielen is a better explanation.
Quote: @comet52 said:
Well... some years the ball bounces your way and some it doesn't. An idiot kicker in Green Bay, Cousins fumbling the game to the Bills, Theilan fumbling it to the Saints. Heck, we lost two games to 2 teams that are a combined 14-1 and will probably meet in the NFCC next January. None of this makes me want to "fire Zimmer!". The franchise karma will never go away btw, it's product of when it was born. Mistakes and miscues will always be our lot and winning the title is a longshot. Nevertheless, the NFCN doesn't contain any juggernauts and we have as a good or better a shot than the Bears, Lions and Pukers.
And the Wilfs love them some RS and he ain't goin' anywhere. I say this all the time but I guess if NJVike can rant the same crap about Speilman year in and year out then I can say my piece. The brothers grimm from NJ stumbled around trying to run it themselves and gave us years of crappy football. They gave RS the reins in 2012 and once they stopped forcing him to keep Les Frazier he gave us Zimmer, a good roster, and a chance. That's all you can ask for.
And too bad about BRob and his soreheaded dad, but he made millions as a journeyman and there's no crying in football, boys.
Comet, just so you know Brian is grateful to have been able to play in the NFL. But why does it always have to be about money when something is uncovered that shows the organizations do shitty things. Let me just say that yes he made great money and he's grateful. He's not the one bitching, I am. It wouldn't do any good anyway. But, he also gave up a lot of money to stay there his last and final year and they knew it.
When was the last time you heard of a team doing a player shitty? You won't hear it because the only thing publicized is what makes the player look bad. Hell, some wouldn't even believe me that Brian wasn't cut by the coaches but, their (front office) actions proved it. And either the coaches or the front office are liars when the front office says they don't decide who plays And who doesn't or who starts and who doesn't or even worse decide whose marketed and publicized and who's not. Yeah I'm just soreheaded, I've got reason to be!!
The organization will let the fans and general public know what they want you to know and it won't be anything that looks bad on them.
AP, it was he wanted 10mil a year or Harvin, he lashed out at a coach or admin. Hell it always looks like the player is the problem. Yet, you never hear the real story. You hear what they want you to hear.
Think about it, players are the only ones who have to adhere to contracts. They can't talk to other teams while under contracts etc. But if a team doesn't want to live up to the contract, well just cut the player.
Yeah Brian did make a lot of money. He also gave up a lot of money to be here his last 2 years and made it pretty clear that this would be his last year.
It's not always about money, (please read my previous posts) but that's what is thrown up to all players if they have a gripe.
I'd be fine if I believed he didn't have at least 1 year left in him or if he had nothing to contribute to this team. But staying with this team through good times and bad, was it too much to ask for a final year to try to give the organization, yourself and the fans a SB championship? Yes that was his goal and he said it from the beginning of his career. The fans DESERVE a SB Championship team and he wanted to be a part of that. That's why he stayed put in Minnesota, it's the only place he really wanted to play. As he told me, he didn't want to chase money and move from one team to the other. I know you don't believe it but to some players there is some things more important than money. I bet you'd be pretty upset if your employer let you go just because someone higher up just didn't like you, or you were too old.
Which brings me to the age thing
. As i said, i wouldn't have a problem if I thought he still couldn't play. I don't like to say anything bad about another player and i won't but Brian missed 3 games in his NFL career, hell, he's been playing this game 31 years and missed a grand total of 6 games, due to injury, his entire life. How many has the DEs Spielman wanted to keep missed just this year.
You know, never mind. You're right I'm just soreheaded.
Maybe it's best I don't tarnish my son's name by voicing MY opinion.
Pops,
I wouldn't deny you your right to feel hurt about things and you're right, we don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes. But this is a tough business and you know that as well as anyone. Guys lose their livelihoods in an instant for various reasons. I don't mention money because it matters more than Brian's passion for the game or anything else, but I am trying to be balanced. Maybe he got a tough break at the end but he also got to enjoy success and wealth that most of us never will. In this world we get some bad breaks but we also have to try to see that we get some good ones too along the way and that's just how life goes.
im sure Teddy B’s daddy & hundreds more felt done wrong too
He had a good career, is healthy of sound mind and rich beyond belief !
its now someone elses turn to enjoy the ride !
in a few years, it wont be a thing at all
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