I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Exactly. For those that criticize Zim as out of touch and unwilling to change, yet think that he is Rick's lackey... Baffling is the only thought that comes to mine.
Treadwell plays because he is a solid #3. Big bodied and has been fairly consistent since he hit bottom against GB. The DB made a great play to swat that 4th down catch out of his hands. Or is it only a great play when our DBs do that? That wasn't the reason we lost. Our two stud WRs made two crucial mistakes. It happens. Thielen needs to protect better when cutting back inside. You have to know you are going to get blasted when you cut back inside. Digg's mistake was bigger IMO. That wasn't a great play by the defense (like Thielen's or Treadwell's mistake) it was just a boneheaded play. He owned it and we move on, but it was a bad play that had a bad result.
So any anger at Treadwell should be secondary to anger directed at Adam and Diggs.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Exactly. For those that criticize Zim as out of touch and unwilling to change, yet think that he is Rick's lackey... Baffling is the only thought that comes to mine.
Treadwell plays because he is a solid #3. Big bodied and has been fairly consistent since he hit bottom against GB. The DB made a great play to swat that 4th down catch out of his hands. Or is it only a great play when our DBs do that? That wasn't the reason we lost. Our two stud WRs made two crucial mistakes. It happens. Thielen needs to protect better when cutting back inside. You have to know you are going to get blasted when you cut back inside. Digg's mistake was bigger IMO. That wasn't a great play by the defense (like Thielen's or Treadwell's mistake) it was just a boneheaded play. He owned it and we move on, but it was a bad play that had a bad result.
So any anger at Treadwell should be secondary to anger directed at Adam and Diggs.
Except for the fact that Diggs and Thielen have long histories of producing for this team. For Treadwell, it was just one more f*ck up in a long line of them and making tough contested catches was supposed to be his forte. For the 3rd year in a row, he is being out-performed by the 4th string WR. This year it is a 30 year old WR they signed off the street in mid-September.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Exactly. For those that criticize Zim as out of touch and unwilling to change, yet think that he is Rick's lackey... Baffling is the only thought that comes to mine.
Treadwell plays because he is a solid #3. Big bodied and has been fairly consistent since he hit bottom against GB. The DB made a great play to swat that 4th down catch out of his hands. Or is it only a great play when our DBs do that? That wasn't the reason we lost. Our two stud WRs made two crucial mistakes. It happens. Thielen needs to protect better when cutting back inside. You have to know you are going to get blasted when you cut back inside. Digg's mistake was bigger IMO. That wasn't a great play by the defense (like Thielen's or Treadwell's mistake) it was just a boneheaded play. He owned it and we move on, but it was a bad play that had a bad result.
So any anger at Treadwell should be secondary to anger directed at Adam and Diggs.
its like people need an excuse to be angry so they target a pissing post instead of the true nature of their anger because that would be unpopular. as soon as AT put that ball on the turf I said to my wife that he knows better than to carry it that way, total mental flop by AT as he is the poster child for carrying high and tight. same goes for Diggs, he didnt think about the situation when he tried to improv that route, he had to know that a dragging coverage guy would over run him and that KC would be looking to dump the ball as he broke the pocket.... he wont make that mistake again.
I still say if people dont like the Treadwell pick, or any pick, that is on speilman and not the player unless that player is slacking off... all reports have said the Tread works his ass off but yet that isnt good enough for some people.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Exactly. For those that criticize Zim as out of touch and unwilling to change, yet think that he is Rick's lackey... Baffling is the only thought that comes to mine.
Treadwell plays because he is a solid #3. Big bodied and has been fairly consistent since he hit bottom against GB. The DB made a great play to swat that 4th down catch out of his hands. Or is it only a great play when our DBs do that? That wasn't the reason we lost. Our two stud WRs made two crucial mistakes. It happens. Thielen needs to protect better when cutting back inside. You have to know you are going to get blasted when you cut back inside. Digg's mistake was bigger IMO. That wasn't a great play by the defense (like Thielen's or Treadwell's mistake) it was just a boneheaded play. He owned it and we move on, but it was a bad play that had a bad result.
So any anger at Treadwell should be secondary to anger directed at Adam and Diggs.
Except for the fact that Diggs and Thielen have long histories of producing for this team. For Treadwell, it was just one more f*ck up in a long line of them and making tough contested catches was supposed to be his forte. For the 3rd year in a row, he is being out-performed by the 4th string WR. This year it is a 30 year old WR they signed off the street in mid-September.
how about comparing apples to apples, Robinson isnt asked to do what Treadwell is doing. They are not competing for the same routes and snaps. Robinson isnt nearly as impressive when asked to go across the middle and play in the trees. he is a little fast guy that can get behind defenses when they arent expecting a deep shot. his usage is what makes him shine, Treadwell is asked to run the dirty routes and do the dirty work in the run game, Robinson would get his ass handed to him if he had to block a LB on a stretch run.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I think Spielman is a POS for the way he handled BRob and a few other vets... no arguements. I think he has made some headscratchers that deserve to be scrutinized. however I think he has done some good things as well and certainly has made some contributions to this team since he soley took the reins of the team, however I dont think he makes game day decisions like who plays and who doesnt... he doesnt have that kind of power and Zim would have walked or spouted off by now if rick was putting his 2 cents where it doesnt belong.
Exactly. For those that criticize Zim as out of touch and unwilling to change, yet think that he is Rick's lackey... Baffling is the only thought that comes to mine.
Treadwell plays because he is a solid #3. Big bodied and has been fairly consistent since he hit bottom against GB. The DB made a great play to swat that 4th down catch out of his hands. Or is it only a great play when our DBs do that? That wasn't the reason we lost. Our two stud WRs made two crucial mistakes. It happens. Thielen needs to protect better when cutting back inside. You have to know you are going to get blasted when you cut back inside. Digg's mistake was bigger IMO. That wasn't a great play by the defense (like Thielen's or Treadwell's mistake) it was just a boneheaded play. He owned it and we move on, but it was a bad play that had a bad result.
So any anger at Treadwell should be secondary to anger directed at Adam and Diggs.
Except for the fact that Diggs and Thielen have long histories of producing for this team. For Treadwell, it was just one more f*ck up in a long line of them and making tough contested catches was supposed to be his forte. For the 3rd year in a row, he is being out-performed by the 4th string WR. This year it is a 30 year old WR they signed off the street in mid-September.
Yes, but this game they screwed up big and it cost the team. So they deserve the blame if they deserve the credit. And you could see from Adam's face that he knew it.
But if you think Treadwell is being out performed by a guy with 5 catches, so be it. Robinson didn't catch the ball when we really needed it versus the Saints either.
It's a business... It's a business... how many times have we heard that? Could it be that Treadwell is seeing the field so hopefully he raises his stock before traded away? And IF he improves a bunch.. then we can keep him? What if he's already gone by the end of the season and all that other teams have on him is that he can't catch when counted on. Do you think they'd be interested? It makes good "business sense" to keep him out there and hope he gets better so you can get some value out of him, doesn't it?
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
It's a business... It's a business... how many times have we heard that? Could it be that Treadwell is seeing the field so hopefully he raises his stock before traded away? And IF he improves a bunch.. then we can keep him? What if he's already gone by the end of the season and all that other teams have on him is that he can't catch when counted on. Do you think they'd be interested? It makes good "business sense" to keep him out there and hope he gets better so you can get some value out of him, doesn't it?
so you are saying that even though he is inferior and could be costing us wins and ultimately a playoff spot that the coaches are playing him in hopes of netting a late round compensatory pick or maybe even a late round draft pick in trade? sorry in the cut throat business of the nfl, no way a coach puts a player out there for anything but production IMO. That first round pick is lost and IMO no longer has a bearing on him being on the field.
Well... some years the ball bounces your way and some it doesn't. An idiot kicker in Green Bay, Cousins fumbling the game to the Bills, Theilan fumbling it to the Saints. Heck, we lost two games to 2 teams that are a combined 14-1 and will probably meet in the NFCC next January. None of this makes me want to "fire Zimmer!". The franchise karma will never go away btw, it's product of when it was born. Mistakes and miscues will always be our lot and winning the title is a longshot. Nevertheless, the NFCN doesn't contain any juggernauts and we have as a good or better a shot than the Bears, Lions and Pukers.
And the Wilfs love them some RS and he ain't goin' anywhere. I say this all the time but I guess if NJVike can rant the same crap about Speilman year in and year out then I can say my piece. The brothers grimm from NJ stumbled around trying to run it themselves and gave us years of crappy football. They gave RS the reins in 2012 and once they stopped forcing him to keep Les Frazier he gave us Zimmer, a good roster, and a chance. That's all you can ask for.
And too bad about BRob and his soreheaded dad, but he made millions as a journeyman and there's no crying in football, boys.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
I totally understand the idea of taking a flyer in a later round on a player with risks. But if it was even a case of "The Vikings were smart enough to be less wrong", then why hasn't Spielman ever repeated the late-round success of Diggs, despite having 60 picks (double the normal assigned) in rounds 5-7 in ten years? Luck is random, but being smart should repeat, at a rate higher than 1.6%. That's not even a rate you should call good luck.
Or, if all draft picks are just a combination of lucky fit of system and human traits etc, why does Spielman get credit for Smith, Rhodes, Barr, Hunter, Kendricks?
DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!! We have a winner!!!
This whole "I want 10 draft picks per year" (especially when most of them are wasted 5-7 rounders) is just another way of dodging his lame-ass playoff record...with the Vikings, Dolphins and Bears. "You can't blame ME, I drafted 10 players and signed 15 UDFA, it's not MY fault!!".
There is no ONE formula for building a team. You can't just roll the dice on "down the road" players every year when your NOT WINNING PLAYOFF GAMES. Smart, WINNING teams utilize ALL avenues available wisely (for the most part) : draft, F/A, trade, practice squads. Ultimately, the teams/front offices that make the playoffs consistently and WIN playoff games consistently, and WIN Super Bowls at least occasionally, will be looked upon as more successful than the teams/front offices that occasionally make the playoffs, do NOT win playoff games consistently and NEVER win Super Bowls. That's kinda how professional sports works....WINNING.
What about all the draft equity WASTED between 04/2011 and 09/2016 on 3 QB's, ALL of whom are no longer on the team? What about Ricky DRAFTING not 1, not 2, but THREE kickers in his tenure here, ALSO none still on the team?
And the coup-de-grace : TWO FRICKING PLAYOFF WINS SINCE 2006.
I'll bet Ricky is laughing his ass off at these posts......."Ha,ha, ha!! NOW I have Zim as my NEXT scapegoat!! And maybe Thielen, too. Fuck what he's accomplished over the past 2+ seasons! If fans want to make him a scapegoat for ONE play, then damnit, I'm gonna capitalize on THAT and cover my ass! Whoo-hoo!!"
I wish Vikings fans would stop focusing on the minutiae of single plays in single GAMES, and also PLEASE stop with the "woulda-coulda-shoulda" revisionist history that turns LOSSES into wins in some fictional reality. I can easily play the same revisionist history game and make the Vikings 2-6..... but they're NOT, are they? It's also REALLY easy to turn that playoff victory over the Saints last year and make it another "Schpileman Special" (A playoff winless season, patent pending). It's about time we take a MACRO view, dontcha think?
Focus on the core CAUSE, not the symptoms. 13 seasons is a LOOOOONG time in the NFL without having some playoff success. Other than Jerry Jones, what GM or VP of PP has lasted that long with such anemic results? The Giants shit-canned a GM that WON TWO SB's in 7 years because he had 5 seasons of playoff futility!!
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