Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Again, if there is no intention to retain him on an extension past this upcoming season, the smart thing to do is to trade his ass. Sorry but we aren't going to the Super Bowl this upcoming season with or without Kirk Cousins (attention Wilf family!) Geoff thinks we can still get a late 1st round pick or some type of package of picks in trade compensation for Cousins, so how does that not make sense to do that? Yes, you are essentially sacrificing the upcoming season and yes the optics may look bad to Jefferson, but if there's a long term plan...do it! The Kirk Cousin hostage train is annoying every offseason. It's become the Minnesota version of Aaron Rodgers and if he is going to come back and play or not. As much as I like Kirk, it's time for this GM to step up to the plate and put his own stamp on the organization and I think even he knows that he can't do that as long as we keep playing the Cousins extension game.
Vikings are not going to trade their QB without first having their QBOTF in the pipeline.
And by what means would they go about acquiring a QBOTF prior to trading Cousins? I also think if that were to happen first it lowers the trade value and would give other teams leverage in trade talks. There's really just no way to finesse this Cousins situation to where the pieces line up perfectly for the Vikings. If they want off the rollercoaster they just need to jump at some point and trust in their new front office to make the right decisions in addressing the QB position.
By drafting one. Confused by the question.
No team would ever trade their perfectly good veteran QB for a draft pick. It would just never happen. Draft one, see what he's got, then trade? Sure. QB for QB, OK, but the QB has to be proven.
But QB for a rookie? Never happen. Not in a million years. Imagine the egg on the face of the GM of a 13-win team trading one of the NFL's best QBs, who's still only 34, for a draft pick that turns out to be Dwayne Haskins or Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen or Trubisky or Wentz or Winston or Mariota, or Bortles, Manziel, Manuel, RGIII, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder.........No, it would never happen.
I think for some of you, your hatred of Cousins has clouded your ability to see things clearly.
Nothing confusing about it. We are on a time restriction with Cousin's playing out the last year of his deal with the Vikings unwilling to budge on the guaranteed money he wants in an extension. So do we simply let him play out the last year of his contract and let him walk for nothing at the end of the year, or do you recoup what you can now in a trade pre-draft and use the assets acquired to try to move up in the draft to land a young franchise QB? To me the latter makes much more sense. I like Kirk, I just don't like playing the contract/extension game with Kirk every offseason and understand his time is coming to an end, whether this year or next
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think the team wants to see what he does in year two of the offense. And how he performs in '23 will dictate what happens with the contract.
Of course, if they have a chance to land a much younger, proven veteran like Lamar Jackson, they might just do that. And I would not be opposed to that at all. See, for me, it's not as much about the QB as it is about avoiding the crapshoot and getting a proven vet. I think any time you have a chance to get one--whether it's Cousins in '18 or Jackson in '23 or Brady in '21 or even Russell Wilson in '22--you gotta do that. But it's not going to be for a QB who's never played a down in the NFL. Unless someone has gone off the wails on a Kwesi twain. :-) A lot may depend on how the draft plays out, but continue to think they will try to identify if there is a QB worth moving up for or if they feel strongly enough about Hooker or McKee. That may or may not work out but their approach to this point leaves that option open. While Kirk doesn't deserve the questioning he is now getting I think two points really are driving home the decision.
1. Winning with a QB on a rookie scale contract is the single most significant advantage in the NFL
2. New FO/Coaches nearly always draft "their guy" at QB. They've already done this in a minor way retaining Hicks
I tend to think the current plan is to move off Kirk if they can secure an alternative. It just doesn't make much sense to see what happens in 2023. If he doesn't take another step you're left with no QB. If he's successful you have no leverage and potentially no QB. Due to the 3rd tag rules and Kirk's early void date he can force his way to FA. The Vikings can simply do nothing if he wants to see the market.
My guess is they aggressively try to draft a QB. If they do he plays out the contract. If they can't secure a QB I tend to think they will circle-back on extension talks prior to the season.
I just don't see the Vikings landing one of the perceived elite QB prospects in this draft without doing what the 49ers did and mortgaging a good part of our future draft capital to move up into position to do it. So it will likely be back to the bargaining table with Kirko once again calling the shots
Mortgage the future. Move up to get a QB. I have no problem with that. But they won't use Cousins to do it. Just like the 49ers didn't use Jimmy G to do it. No team would ever do that.
Ok so what do you propose they do with Cousins then? Come whimpering back to the bargaining table after the draft when they aren't in position or aren't willing to move all the way up for a QB and give Kirk what he wants in guaranteed extension money? Again, I know you think Kirk is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's 35 going into the last year of his deal and wants a guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. Myself along with almost every other Vikings supporter is tired of playing this contract/extension/kick the can down the road game with him and his agent every offseason. I will forever contend the right thing to do is to trade him, but what most likely happens is the Vikings are unable to draft a QBOTF in this draft and once again bend over for Kirk and his agent and gives him what he wants in another short term deal while the team is average and we are playing the same game next offseason. I would sign and start Cam Newton at QB before I'd want to go down this again. What the Raiders did with Carr was the right way to handle things, the Vikings continuing to do with Cousins is delaying the inevitable and not making us any better in the future.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
I just don't see the Vikings landing one of the perceived elite QB prospects in this draft without doing what the 49ers did and mortgaging a good part of our future draft capital to move up into position to do it. So it will likely be back to the bargaining table with Kirko once again calling the shots
Mortgage the future. Move up to get a QB. I have no problem with that. But they won't use Cousins to do it. Just like the 49ers didn't use Jimmy G to do it. No team would ever do that.
Ok so what do you propose they do with Cousins then? Come whimpering back to the bargaining table after the draft when they aren't in position or aren't willing to move all the way up for a QB and give Kirk what he wants in guaranteed extension money? Again, I know you think Kirk is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's 35 going into the last year of his deal and wants a guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. Myself along with almost every other Vikings supporter is tired of playing this contract/extension/kick the can down the road game with him and his agent every offseason. I will forever contend the right thing to do is to trade him, but what most likely happens is the Vikings are unable to draft a QBOTF in this draft and once again bend over for Kirk and his agent and gives him what he wants in another short term deal while the team is average and we are playing the same game next offseason. I would sign and start Cam Newton at QB before I'd want to go down this again. What the Raiders did with Carr was the right way to handle things, the Vikings continuing to do with Cousins is delaying the inevitable and not making us any better in the future.
I don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. What are you, 80? But is he the greatest thing since squeeze mayonnaise? It's close.
What do I propose? I propose we draft a QB. Let Cousins play year two in this offense. If he has a great year like I expect, extend him. Give the rookie more time to develop. If he doesn't have a great year, assuming the young QB looks like he has a future, then that's the end of the road for Cap'n Clutch. He hits free agency, we get a couple of 3rds and a shit-ton of cap space.
But ya gotta have a proven QB. Even the Raiders knew they couldn't replace Carr with a rookie (like so many thought they were going to do), even with the 7th pick in the draft and plenty of ammo to move up. So they brought in Jimmy G. But this is not the same situation. Cousins won 13 games, broke the record for most comebacks, went to the playoffs and the Pro Bowl. Carr was benched.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I just don't see the Vikings landing one of the perceived elite QB prospects in this draft without doing what the 49ers did and mortgaging a good part of our future draft capital to move up into position to do it. So it will likely be back to the bargaining table with Kirko once again calling the shots
Mortgage the future. Move up to get a QB. I have no problem with that. But they won't use Cousins to do it. Just like the 49ers didn't use Jimmy G to do it. No team would ever do that.
Ok so what do you propose they do with Cousins then? Come whimpering back to the bargaining table after the draft when they aren't in position or aren't willing to move all the way up for a QB and give Kirk what he wants in guaranteed extension money? Again, I know you think Kirk is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's 35 going into the last year of his deal and wants a guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. Myself along with almost every other Vikings supporter is tired of playing this contract/extension/kick the can down the road game with him and his agent every offseason. I will forever contend the right thing to do is to trade him, but what most likely happens is the Vikings are unable to draft a QBOTF in this draft and once again bend over for Kirk and his agent and gives him what he wants in another short term deal while the team is average and we are playing the same game next offseason. I would sign and start Cam Newton at QB before I'd want to go down this again. What the Raiders did with Carr was the right way to handle things, the Vikings continuing to do with Cousins is delaying the inevitable and not making us any better in the future.
I don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. What are you, 80? But is he the greatest thing since squeeze mayonnaise? It's close.
What do I propose? I propose we draft a QB. Let Cousins play year two in this offense. If he has a great year like I expect, extend him. Give the rookie more time to develop. If he doesn't have a great year, assuming the young QB looks like he has a future, then that's the end of the road for Cap'n Clutch. He hits free agency, we get a couple of 3rds and a shit-ton of cap space.
But ya gotta have a proven QB. Even the Raiders knew they couldn't replace Carr with a rookie (like so many thought they were going to do), even with the 7th pick in the draft and plenty of ammo to move up. So they brought in Jimmy G. But this is not the same situation. Cousins won 13 games, broke the record for most comebacks, went to the playoffs and the Pro Bowl. Carr was benched.
Yep that is the scenario I am hoping for!
If Kirk plays great then we can extend and give rookie QB another year to watch.
If Kirk plays just OK/bad then rip the band-aide off and move to a rookie QB contract with tons of cap space.
I think this is the ideal scenario this draft. All that said, and if our brass does not deem any of these QB's as first round talent, then don't reach!
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I just don't see the Vikings landing one of the perceived elite QB prospects in this draft without doing what the 49ers did and mortgaging a good part of our future draft capital to move up into position to do it. So it will likely be back to the bargaining table with Kirko once again calling the shots
Mortgage the future. Move up to get a QB. I have no problem with that. But they won't use Cousins to do it. Just like the 49ers didn't use Jimmy G to do it. No team would ever do that.
Ok so what do you propose they do with Cousins then? Come whimpering back to the bargaining table after the draft when they aren't in position or aren't willing to move all the way up for a QB and give Kirk what he wants in guaranteed extension money? Again, I know you think Kirk is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's 35 going into the last year of his deal and wants a guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. Myself along with almost every other Vikings supporter is tired of playing this contract/extension/kick the can down the road game with him and his agent every offseason. I will forever contend the right thing to do is to trade him, but what most likely happens is the Vikings are unable to draft a QBOTF in this draft and once again bend over for Kirk and his agent and gives him what he wants in another short term deal while the team is average and we are playing the same game next offseason. I would sign and start Cam Newton at QB before I'd want to go down this again. What the Raiders did with Carr was the right way to handle things, the Vikings continuing to do with Cousins is delaying the inevitable and not making us any better in the future.
I don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. What are you, 80? But is he the greatest thing since squeeze mayonnaise? It's close.
What do I propose? I propose we draft a QB. Let Cousins play year two in this offense. If he has a great year like I expect, extend him. Give the rookie more time to develop. If he doesn't have a great year, assuming the young QB looks like he has a future, then that's the end of the road for Cap'n Clutch. He hits free agency, we get a couple of 3rds and a shit-ton of cap space.
But ya gotta have a proven QB. Even the Raiders knew they couldn't replace Carr with a rookie (like so many thought they were going to do), even with the 7th pick in the draft and plenty of ammo to move up. So they brought in Jimmy G. But this is not the same situation. Cousins won 13 games, broke the record for most comebacks, went to the playoffs and the Pro Bowl. Carr was benched.
It's just a difference in philosophy and roster building. I just don't see the advantage in allowing a 35 year old QB, who still has some trade value, simply play out the last year of his deal when we are at a stalemate over guarantees he wants on an extension. By continuing to extend him you are tying up that shit-ton of cap space in the form of a guaranteed contract and continuing to bet that he bucks NFL history and his play doesn't fall off a cliff or that he doesn't sustain catastrophic injury. And just for statistical purposes and pointing out all his yardage he threw for last season, he was also tied for second most interceptions in the league last year (14) and had that inexplicable check down in our playoff game on 4th and 8. Like I said, it's time to get off the Kirk Cousins hostage train by whatever means necessary and moving him while he has trade value is the sensible thing to do, regardless of who we may or may not have in the pipeline. I'd probably be more okay with letting things play out your way if we were a legit Super Bowl contender, but my money is on this team taking step back this season. Catching lightning in a bottle two seasons in a row is next to impossible and we have a more difficult schedule along with our own division being better.
Also just for fun, which of these QB's would you rather have;
Option 1.) 65.9% completions, 4,547 yards, 29 TD's, 14 INT's, 92.5% QBR
Option 2.) 65.1% completions, 4,438 yards, 29 TD's, 7 INT's, 99.3% QBR
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Also just for fun, which of these QB's would you rather have;
Option 1.) 65.9% completions, 4,547 yards, 29 TD's, 14 INT's, 92.5% QBR
Option 2.) 65.1% completions, 4,438 yards, 29 TD's, 7 INT's, 99.3% QBR
The one who won 13 games in a brand new offense and an historically bad defense.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Also just for fun, which of these QB's would you rather have;
Option 1.) 65.9% completions, 4,547 yards, 29 TD's, 14 INT's, 92.5% QBR
Option 2.) 65.1% completions, 4,438 yards, 29 TD's, 7 INT's, 99.3% QBR
The one who won 13 games in a brand new offense and an historically bad defense.
I'd take the guy who put up the same statistics with half the INT's, throwing to Josh Reynolds and Brock Wright while also in a brand new offense with a historically bad defense, which gave up the same average points per game as the Vikings (25.1 points per).
In case everyone hasn't guessed it, that's right option #2 is everyone's favorite punching bag...Jared Goff. So let's not think Kirk Cousins is some irreplaceable savant
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Also just for fun, which of these QB's would you rather have;
Option 1.) 65.9% completions, 4,547 yards, 29 TD's, 14 INT's, 92.5% QBR
Option 2.) 65.1% completions, 4,438 yards, 29 TD's, 7 INT's, 99.3% QBR
The one who won 13 games in a brand new offense and an historically bad defense.
I'd take the guy who put up the same statistics with half the INT's, throwing to Josh Reynolds and Brock Wright while also in a brand new offense with a historically bad defense, which gave up the same average points per game as the Vikings (25.1 points per).
In case everyone hasn't guessed it, that's right option #2 is everyone's favorite punching bag...Jared Goff. So let's not think Kirk Cousins is some irreplaceable savant
I agree, Goff was great last year. So what do you do if you're the Lions? You have the 6th and 18th pick in the draft. Plenty of ammo to either stay put and get a top 4 QB or even move up and for one of top 2.
I know one thing you DON'T do. And that's get rid of Goff.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Also just for fun, which of these QB's would you rather have;
Option 1.) 65.9% completions, 4,547 yards, 29 TD's, 14 INT's, 92.5% QBR
Option 2.) 65.1% completions, 4,438 yards, 29 TD's, 7 INT's, 99.3% QBR
The one who won 13 games in a brand new offense and an historically bad defense.
I'd take the guy who put up the same statistics with half the INT's, throwing to Josh Reynolds and Brock Wright while also in a brand new offense with a historically bad defense, which gave up the same average points per game as the Vikings (25.1 points per).
In case everyone hasn't guessed it, that's right option #2 is everyone's favorite punching bag...Jared Goff. So let's not think Kirk Cousins is some irreplaceable savant
Goff? The QB that McVay gave up on so he could win a superbowl? Goff did surprise last year, but until he does it consistently, I will say that last year is the anomaly for him.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Also just for fun, which of these QB's would you rather have;
Option 1.) 65.9% completions, 4,547 yards, 29 TD's, 14 INT's, 92.5% QBR
Option 2.) 65.1% completions, 4,438 yards, 29 TD's, 7 INT's, 99.3% QBR
The one who won 13 games in a brand new offense and an historically bad defense.
I'd take the guy who put up the same statistics with half the INT's, throwing to Josh Reynolds and Brock Wright while also in a brand new offense with a historically bad defense, which gave up the same average points per game as the Vikings (25.1 points per).
In case everyone hasn't guessed it, that's right option #2 is everyone's favorite punching bag...Jared Goff. So let's not think Kirk Cousins is some irreplaceable savant
I agree, Goff was great last year. So what do you do if you're the Lions? You have the 6th and 18th pick in the draft. Plenty of ammo to either stay put and get a top 4 QB or even move up and for one of top 2.
I know one thing you DON'T do. And that's get rid of Goff.
Well of course not, he's 28 and under contract the next two seasons at a manageable 30 million per year. Not the same story with Kirko
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