Quote: @Jor-El said:
Compare WRs head to head: Spielman thought Patterson and Treadwell were far more likely to succeed in his team/system/culture than Diggs or Thielen.
Hidalgo's original point was that Spielman and Zimmer underfed the offense or spent high picks on offensive players who didn't work out - but that it has been masked by falling backwards into Diggs and Thielen. I'm standing by that assessment.
That doesn't even make sense. Randy Moss slid, so one can assign some blame to teams that passed on him. Diggs and Thielen didn't slide out of the first. Diggs had flags/risks and hence was taken in the 5th. Before anyone else took him. Thielen wasn't drafted, didn't go to the combine. That one you could argue fell into our lap. But still, they signed him out of that first weekend and stuck with him all the while many draftniks mocked them for keeping a local boy on the team.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ Hidalgo said:
If the team hadn't got lucky with a 5th round WR and an undrafted WR, every fan would be calling for Zimmer and Spielman's heads.
Getting lucky on a couple of wide receivers is ALL that keeps us from being on the same page.o
No kidding - take away the sheer luck of Thielen and Diggs falling in our lap, and Cousins would be throwing to Cordarelle Patterson and Laquon Treadwell, the guys Rick Spielman thought would be superstar WRs.
Spielman defenders usually hold up Diggs and Thielen as examples of his personnel prowess, but they were just luck. If you really believe that Spielman "knew" Diggs was going to be a star, how do you explain that he passed him over 5 times, including for TJ Clemmings and MyCole Pruitt? "Hmmmm, there's a #1 WR still on the board, but I think his draft value is only round 5 so I will risk letting another team pick him so I can pick a scrub TE..."
No, it was dumb luck. Spielman has had 16 5th round picks in 10 years and Diggs is the only one to even stick with the team. It's just a blind squirrel.
I'm not calling for Zimmer's head - because he's at least above average and our last two HCs were well below that. But IF it ever came to him leaving, and Spielman wasn't riding out on the same rail, I would be at least as ticked as NJVike.
And basically, the only reason they have Thielan is because he grew up a Vikings fan and is from the area. Decided to go to an open tryout. If he was from Michigan he'd most likely be playing for the Lions.
Quote: @Purplewhizz said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Hidalgo said:
If the team hadn't got lucky with a 5th round WR and an undrafted WR, every fan would be calling for Zimmer and Spielman's heads.
Getting lucky on a couple of wide receivers is ALL that keeps us from being on the same page.o
No kidding - take away the sheer luck of Thielen and Diggs falling in our lap, and Cousins would be throwing to Cordarelle Patterson and Laquon Treadwell, the guys Rick Spielman thought would be superstar WRs.
Spielman defenders usually hold up Diggs and Thielen as examples of his personnel prowess, but they were just luck. If you really believe that Spielman "knew" Diggs was going to be a star, how do you explain that he passed him over 5 times, including for TJ Clemmings and MyCole Pruitt? "Hmmmm, there's a #1 WR still on the board, but I think his draft value is only round 5 so I will risk letting another team pick him so I can pick a scrub TE..."
No, it was dumb luck. Spielman has had 16 5th round picks in 10 years and Diggs is the only one to even stick with the team. It's just a blind squirrel.
I'm not calling for Zimmer's head - because he's at least above average and our last two HCs were well below that. But IF it ever came to him leaving, and Spielman wasn't riding out on the same rail, I would be at least as ticked as NJVike.
And basically, the only reason they have Thielan is because he grew up a Vikings fan and is from the area. Decided to go to an open tryout. If he was from Michigan he'd most likely be playing for the Lions.
Na the lions would have traded him for a 3rd rounder.
Spielman doesn’t operate in a vacuum, it’s not like no one else rated these players similarly.
Fans: nitpicky when the team wins, nitpicky when they lose. The worry that many had about the offensive line and right behind that, the offensive line depth, has come true. The run game is bad. Its obvious that this season is one of inconsistency and mediocrity. They nailed the QB position, so that is very good news moving forward. But lots to do this offseason and some talent is going to have to be allowed to leave to pay attention to a much neglected offensive line.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Fans: nitpicky when the team wins, nitpicky when they lose. The worry that many had about the offensive line and right behind that, the offensive line depth, has come true. The run game is bad. Its obvious that this season is one of inconsistency and mediocrity. They nailed the QB position, so that is very good news moving forward. But lots to do this offseason and some talent is going to have to be allowed to leave to pay attention to a much neglected offensive line.
In fairness...how many teams could lose their top 2 LT, top 2 LG, and start the season with a back up center and show much better? we talk constantly about the lack of overall talent at OL across the league. I don't know that any team would be sitting much better at OL with all those injuries and who knows, maybe if we had taken OL in the first as some continue to talk about, as vikings they may have gotten hurt as well and we would be in the same boat.
The team tried a direction and the inury bug got them again. Yes they could make improvements but it's not like the current issue would conclusively and necessarily be better. Shit happens.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
Fans: nitpicky when the team wins, nitpicky when they lose. The worry that many had about the offensive line and right behind that, the offensive line depth, has come true. The run game is bad. Its obvious that this season is one of inconsistency and mediocrity. They nailed the QB position, so that is very good news moving forward. But lots to do this offseason and some talent is going to have to be allowed to leave to pay attention to a much neglected offensive line.
In fairness...how many teams could lose their top 2 LT, top 2 LG, and start the season with a back up center and show much better? we talk constantly about the lack of overall talent at OL across the league. I don't know that any team would be sitting much better at OL with all those injuries and who knows, maybe of we had taken OL in the first as some continue to talk about, as vikings they may have gotten hurt as well and we would be in the same boat.
The team tried a direction and the inury bug got them again. Yes they could make improvements but it's not lie the current issue would conclusively and necessarily be better. Shit happens.
I hate to use injuries as an excuse as every team has them....and if you had time to research each team's starting lineup and how many injuries they have, you'd be probably very surprised how high it can be for some. But yeah, Minnesota certainly has had their share. Some teams do better than others at overcoming them however. Its a constant in the NFL, so I'm not cutting a ton of slack. But its been a factor without a doubt.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ Maple Surple said:
Funny how earlier this same year, this same franchise, beat the same team by a small margin ( some might even dub it a miracle ) & No One in this thread was questiong anyone nor anything. Probably too busy running around cheering
This doesn't surprise you, does it? Fans are bipolar, everything is super great or absolutely sucks. Fire Zimmer. Blah blah blah. Highly emotional and too close to the trees. I noticed the term "same team" wasn't used to describe the Vikings. Because this isn't the same team. It's supposed to be better, thru decisions made by the front office... Correct? They are not,,, currently. I do believe they will be, perhaps and hopefully by the end of this year they will be clicking like they were but it might take til next year. Our franchise had a solid lockerroom, good team chemistry and were winning. The front office decided to "change things up" and the Vikings are 4-3-1. Some people are not happy about that. Winning would fix that and it starts by beating the lions this weekend.
I haven't like Rick's talent evaluation skills for a long time and now(since 2012, I think) he's THE guy. If people cannot accept blame being placed on him then they should not be able to heap praise on him either. Giving credit to him for picking Diggs and Thielen's being on the team is bullshit. We are lucky to have those two players. If they were Rick's "guys" they would have been starting from day one and even if they struggled mightily they would still be on the field (Cough Tread cough Well cough cough). When I saw Diggs at training camp I said he was going to be special, but yet it took an injury for him to see the field. Treadwell is out there every game to fuck it up with a non catch at a crucial time. Why? Cuz Rick spent a #1 on him.
Zimmer totally strikes me as a Head Coach who allows the GM to tell him who starts and who doesn't. Good call Zerk.
I wonder if in their interview with D-Flip they asked him if he would have a problem when Rick ordered him to keep Treadwell in the starting Lineup because he wasted a 1st on him and didn't want his ego bruised.
Or what Kirk's answer was when he was told not to sign with Minnesota unless he was comfortable targeting Laquon to make Rick feel beter.
Wondering about and questioning things are how a person learns. Good start FSU.
=)
Who is Zim's boss again?
You choose to not see things said in this thread about players and who has final say about them. Rick a great double talker(smiley gladhander) so I doubt he even asked D-Flip about Treadwell. And Kirk didn't have a good sample size last year to even know about Treadwell.
But good ones.
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