Quote: @HappyViking said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ Ilovebigtd's said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
Why does Teddy’s Bengals performance get a pass?
Did he look comfortable? Did it look like he had improved? Did he look like a starter?
For me the answer is no for all those questions. Teddy was handed the keys to this team due to the lack of QB talent at the time... Today the Vikings have QB talent, one traded for and one emerged to play his best ball yet. Nobody can say that they knew Case would preform the way he did... well maybe his mom... but I digress. IF Teddy could be “the guy”, that would be the best thing for this org. BUT....
Will Teddy still trust his legs when a play breaks down? Did he lose a step due to the injury? Was the injury genetics? Can Teddy come back mentally from such an injury? Having your leg fall off while doing “normal” walk thru type things.. cannot be a comfort when you are going to have 300+ lb people trying to take you down.
Sam could have the same questions, except his game was never a “running/scramble” QB. His game was arm and accuracy.
Case just put up his best season. He loves it here... might play into taking less money, doubt it, but it might. BUT... how much of his success was OC related. Will a new OC mean a less successful Case?
Rick gets A TON of credit on this site, for a GM who hasn’t got the QB position right yet.... this will be the decision that either erases all those struggling years or adds to them.
I’m not getting any younger.... I hope he gets it right.
bro he was in for TWO PLAYS
Whose fault was that?
The second drive, it was Floyd dropping an easy first down?
And the fact that we were leading and in the 5 minute offense.
Was the throw where it needed to be or did the ball placement make what should have been an easy catch... a difficult one?
And what happened on that first drive? He threw high...like he’s done in the past... accuracy is important.
Zerk, I'm pretty sure the Vikes had backups in by the time Teddy got in the game. I wouldn't put too much stock in how he played. I'm sure it was a very emotional one for him. What's your point? The QB is as good as his last game? If so, how does Case and Sam look right now? Maybe all three of these guys suck based on their last performances.
Teddy was a backup himself so he was playing with his practice mates. If you read the thread I was asked to use apples to apples when talking about Teddy so that means I have to use his 2017 stats.
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
So only Teddy can be excused for being amped up? I thought he was GUMP? Sam wasn’t amped up on his first game, Monday night “everyone watching”? Case wasn’t amped at his chance to earn millions in a new contract if he plays well? If Teddy hadn’t thrown high in his previous seasons I coudn’t care less about that INT in mop up. But his accuracy is a question.... is it not?
All three QBs have questionable futures. People assume Sam will not play a 16 game season in his career again. Case is assumed to already hit his ceiling. But Teddy’s assumptions are all positives? I don’t understand that train of thought and just offering up reasons (within the apples to apples criteria) behind that.
settle down.... i havent said Teddy doesnt come with as many questions as the others, i have said he likely has more than them. I have argued for all of them and against all of them when it comes to people trying to get crazy with their claims.
by the way, all QBs throw high when they are getting hit alot (which Teddy was) Case threw high a shit load this year, and Sam sailed his share as well. Its a natural degradation of the throwing mechanics to get the arm ahead of the rest of the body when rushed. Teddy and Sam were getting planted a lot in a very short amount of time, Case often would hang onto the ball waiting for his primary targets routes to develop and allow the pressure to get to him, either way its a mechanical issue and one that is typically fixed unless a QB gets shell shocked ala David Carr... then there is no hope.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
Look, you guys stated that we should only compare “apples to apples” when discussing the QB position so that’s what I’m trying to do. I can only focus on Teddy’s 2017 season under our then OC, same line scheme, same head coach same whatever. Is it fair? No... and I know that, it’s extremely obvious that it’s not. But it’s the only “stats” allowed if you want to discuss “apples to apples”. Sam had a huge first game vs Saints(2017 Playoff team)under Pat. Case struggled his first outing vs the Steelers(2017 Playoff team) under Pat. Teddy threw a pick and an incomplete pass(could be called a “bad throw” but the receiver got his hands on it so that should be a catch at the NFL level) vs the Bengals(7-9 2017 team... 5-8 when we played them) under Pat.
Sam’s first six plays trailing by 3.
Sam Bradford pass complete short middle to Dalvin Cook for 4 yards
if its not a fair comparison... . then why do it? you wont convince anybody of anything with that small of a bag of evidence. not saying not to do it, but I am saying it will be easy to shoot full of holes... just as easy as saying that Teddy looked great in preseason 2 years ago so he should be out guy.. or Sam was awesome against the Saints, to small of a sample or too much has transpired since.
To show that “apples to apples” comparisons are not the way to go when dicussing this. Did I take the longest route possible to get there, yes... and quite frankly I’m fairly sure poeple still haven’t made that connection and assume I’m just a dumbass that hates Teddy.
People will defend “their” guy no matter what. Teddy was never given a chance with a solid O line like we had in 2017 or Teddy was handcuffed to Norv and his use of Peterson. All true... but there is zero, nada, zilch, no evidence that says Teddy would have been just as successful as Case was this year. The coaches saw all three QBs in practice all year and activated Sam to backup Case in the playoffs. What does that tell you about who is the better of our QBs and where Teddy stands in the eyes of our coaches? Teddy may be the Vikings QB in 2018, but he was not the one they called upon in 2017 and that concerns me if he is our QB of the future.
Quote: @Ilovebigtd's said:
wow that zerk guy is delusional lol
coming from you I am sure he will be ok with that comment.
Recovering from an devestating injury and making it back might involve more nerves than a normal start. I don't recall standing ovations for Sam or Case.
And if you read my comment above, all 3 (including Teddy) had cons. I don't assume Sam won't stay healthy, but it is a significant risk. Same with Teddy.
Quote: @Ilovebigtd's said:
wow that zerk guy is delusional lol
Probably.... every year I believe the Vikings will win the Super Bowl...
Quote: @Ilovebigtd's said:
wow that zerk guy is delusional lol
Paragon of rationality, you are not.
Quote: @Norse said:
Only about 30 more days of this QB discussion. 
It's fantastic! I am loving every minute of it to be honest.
Otherwise I could be thinking about the freaking Eagles in the Super Bowl.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ Norse said:
Only about 30 more days of this QB discussion.
It's fantastic! I am loving every minute of it to be honest.
Otherwise I could be thinking about the freaking Eagles in the Super Bowl.
Me too...Educational as hell for me. I love hearing the rational from all sides. What else is there to do SB week if you're not from NE or Philly?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Tom Moore said:
Teddy is a wonderful person. Now, with that said, what game do you point to in his career that makes you say, "man, that is a franchise QB and he really lit them up"? To me, he is a game manager. A guy who was a high pick out of college, and has been a QB since age 9, should not need 5 years to learn how to throw an accurate deep ball.
Problem is, everyone keeps saying Case is not the guy....yet he produced 13 wins. Drew Brees sucked in San Diego for a few years, and then the lights came on. Maybe they did for Case. Yes, he takes unnecessary risks and had 10 INTs (3 in the playoffs), but few were his fault. To be fair, there were a few other dropped INTs that he very well could have made his stats look worse. But, he is the gunslinger we want. Teddy doesn't take those chances.
And, Sam. He is my pick, were it not for the injury concerns. By far the most accurate, but the least mobile.
I think Case deserves to start in this league. I think Sam deserves to start in this league. And I think Teddy was the best QB we had had in Minnesota since Favre was here, until Sam came and Case emerged.
Biggest fear is like StickyBun - just don't screw it up. If we pick Teddy, and he flames out, and the other 1 or 2 do well, it's starting from scratch again. I'm sick of retread QBs.
If it were me, I'd franchise Case, and sign Sam for $12M more. We have the money, and I don't see anyone paying Sam more than $12m a year to start due to the injury concerns.
Few Ints were Case's fault? Seriously? I suppose the Pick 6 he threw into triple coverage wasn't his fault because his arm got tipped. Otherwise it would have magically passed through all the Defenders.
And how many times did he throw up a floater that Diggs or Thielen bailed him out on? How many times did he hit DBs right in the damn hands and they dropped it?
It's great that Minnesota has two WRs capable of being in the Top 10 in contested catches. It's not great that Keenum doesn't have the arm to hit them when they're open and has to rely on their ball skills to bail him out.
Case gets a little bit of credit from me because he actually was willing to throw into coverage at times to let his receivers make a play. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. When you have good playmakers that can end up bailing you out of a lot of shitty decisions. But sometimes the decisions you make are very shitty. You do not EVER throw a ball up for grabs against the Saints when you're winning by 14 points. That Marcus Williams pick let them back into the game. Same thing could be said in the Redskins game. You're up by what, 14+ points? Then you give up a near pick-6 to let them back into the game.
Ultimately, it's who Case is. He is a gambler. He'll make some throws others QB's won't and make out ok. But he also will also miss wide open receivers to huge plays as well from time to time. The question with Case is not whether he can repeat what he did in 2017. It's if his massive jump in production is due to the weapons he was surrounded with. If its the latter you immediately become more confident in an external option or Bridgewater + veteran over paying Case $23M on the tag.
If we're looking at 23 million for Case, it would make a lot more sense in my mind to pay 25 for Cousins.
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