Quote: @Montana Tom said:
I had a deep conversation with a friend who played for USC and is a big Trojans fan. He said that at USC, Sam Darnold was big, athletic, did not get flustered, good arm, mentally strong. All positives that should have translated to success in the NFL. However, his growth got stunted at the Jets and then again at Carolina. I may have judged this move prematurely.
The problem is that no QB that I'm aware of, whose first multiple years have been stunted at the NFL level, has been coached back to achieve his potential. The USC QB hype is legendary Sanchez, Leinart, Darnold.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ Montana Tom said:
I had a deep conversation with a friend who played for USC and is a big Trojans fan. He said that at USC, Sam Darnold was big, athletic, did not get flustered, good arm, mentally strong. All positives that should have translated to success in the NFL. However, his growth got stunted at the Jets and then again at Carolina. I may have judged this move prematurely.
The problem is that no QB that I'm aware of, whose first multiple years have been stunted at the NFL level, has been coached back to achieve his potential. The USC QB hype is legendary Sanchez, Leinart, Darnold.
No way he achieves the potential he had when the Jets drafted him 3rd overall. That ship has sailed. However, I think he'll play better in our offense than he's played to date.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Zanary said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ HappyViking said:
Are the other NFCN teams paying Kwesi's salary by any chance? It almost
seems intentional how he's making this roster crappier each off-season and void of any rational winning team plan.
Looks bleak right now, but you can see they are signing FAs. If they can hit on a QB in this Draft they like, its a plan that would be considered coming together. KAM needed some flexibility from the cap, that's what he worked toward each year....getting out of the cap hole. They'll have a shitload of cap room next year. They tried to resign Cousins.....are we going to blame KAM for not matching a 4 year contract with the guarantees Atlanta put in there? Not with a straight face. I don't entirely blame KAM for not signing Cousins. Actually, I now
hope Cousins falls flat on his dorky face in Atlanta. The fact that KAM
doesn't have a reasonable succession plan for QB in year three of his
"rebuild" is his fault, however. Did the Vikes believe Cousins when he
said he wanted to stay a Viking? Seems like they did, but Kirk showed
them he only wanted to stay a Viking if they gave him the most
guaranteed money.I guess I blame Kwesi and Kirk equally.
Kwesi has egg on his face (again) while "gosh, gee, golly good guy" Kirk is flipping him "the bird"
on his way to the Falcons. The Vikes don't have a QB now, and everyone here knows they won't come close to playoffs without one. They went from having the best NFCN QB to the worst in year 3 of Kwesi's rebuild.
Kirk Cousins, a guy with young kids, asked for something absolutely crazy and selfish to many Vikings fans. He asked for clarity and peace regarding the last years of his career. For some crazy reason, he didn’t want to wind up a journeyman QB having to constantly move around on one year contracts while his kids grow up. Yep, how selfish of him to not go along with Kwesi’s plan to dump him for a rookie contract as soon as possible.
The Vikings could have easily matched the contract of the Falcons, but they would have actually committed to something and Kwesi didn’t want to. He probably saw it as too risky. So they parted ways.
Kirk Cousins was a standup guy every second he was here. When he was treated like hot garbage by Zimmer despite performing well, he didn’t say a word. He just kept upholding his end of the deal with continuous great performances despite a horrendous line the front office couldn’t find a fix for.
Cousins took LESS MONEY than his market value the past couple of years so the team could get better defense. That’s how he ended up paid 15th in the league despite being a top 5 performer.
This team has been subpar because of poor drafting, not Kirk Cousins. Had they hit on even a few defenders in round 1-3 the past 6 years this was a top 5 team and competitive for a Superbowl. They hit on basically no one. Kirk Cousins didn’t do that. Kirk Cousins didn’t push dead money into this year. KAM did that. He didn’t sign free agencts and didn’t draft poorly. Cousins had zero control over this roster and why its been a struggle. He did everything he could on his end and did it well.
Kirk Cousins has done zip wrong. He’s still paid around 8th in the league - his market contract based upon his performance. The Vikings wouldn’t give him any stability and that was their choice, not Kirk’s.
Dude. I loved Kirko. But he won 1 playoff game. Minnesota has JJ, Darrisaw, etc. up for big contracts. They need help on D. The organization rightly didn't want to sign a 36 year old coming off Achilles surgery to a 4 year contract loaded with guarantees. If you want to live in the fantasy land that they can afford everything and anything, I can't stop your delusion.
I also think Kirk did zero wrong. But he shouldn't be a Viking for what Atlanta offered him.
"He won 1 playoff game"
He was notoriously horribly protected, while deep playoff teams tend to have top-5 lines (KC #5, Philly #1, etc). The TEAM failed to get the IOL shored up until...hell, half of last season.
As much as people talk about how good our D was rated in 2018, the team was obviously not right, overall, and Zimmer's defensive "brilliance" failed to create a single real starting CB after Rhodes. Waynes, Hughes, Dantzler...and let's not forget the complete dumpster fire of Breeland, who Zimmer insisted on starting as he lost us games.
After 2019, and that "one playoff win" which was followed by a trench humiliation at the hands of SF, our defense would be rated in the 30s for 3 straight seasons while our IOL was still barely rated better. How does that TEAM go for championships?
This is why I'm sad to see Cousins go, but almost relieved for him: the absolute babbling BS that HE failed to win more playoff games when the team, the coaching, and other areas were still needing addressing as well...it's just been a special kind of disgusting. After years and years of fragile/weak QBs, we get one that genuinely produces at a high level and many fans forget 52 other players plus the coaches.
And after all your outrage and blather.....he's still won one playoff game in Minnesota. This is the last time I'm going to mention how much I'm a fan of Kirko Chainz. I wanted him back and I've defended him constantly on this board in the past.
You're relieved for him?? lol, yeah the poor guy was so persecuted in Minnesota (eye roll). He was beloved on the team and got one of the loudest ovations ever blowing the Gjallarhorn last season. Save your melodrama and tears for Kirko, he's fine. I'll be rooting for him in Atlanta.
And he was the highest paid QB in the league the first 4 or 5 years he played in purple. Really not understanding the poor Kirk angle by some.
He has never been the highest paid QB.
2018: 3rd
2019: 7th
2020: 5th
2021: 8th
2022: 10th
2023: 15th
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ HappyViking said:
Are the other NFCN teams paying Kwesi's salary by any chance? It almost
seems intentional how he's making this roster crappier each off-season and void of any rational winning team plan.
Looks bleak right now, but you can see they are signing FAs. If they can hit on a QB in this Draft they like, its a plan that would be considered coming together. KAM needed some flexibility from the cap, that's what he worked toward each year....getting out of the cap hole. They'll have a shitload of cap room next year. They tried to resign Cousins.....are we going to blame KAM for not matching a 4 year contract with the guarantees Atlanta put in there? Not with a straight face. I don't entirely blame KAM for not signing Cousins. Actually, I now
hope Cousins falls flat on his dorky face in Atlanta. The fact that KAM
doesn't have a reasonable succession plan for QB in year three of his
"rebuild" is his fault, however. Did the Vikes believe Cousins when he
said he wanted to stay a Viking? Seems like they did, but Kirk showed
them he only wanted to stay a Viking if they gave him the most
guaranteed money.I guess I blame Kwesi and Kirk equally.
Kwesi has egg on his face (again) while "gosh, gee, golly good guy" Kirk is flipping him "the bird"
on his way to the Falcons. The Vikes don't have a QB now, and everyone here knows they won't come close to playoffs without one. They went from having the best NFCN QB to the worst in year 3 of Kwesi's rebuild.
...um:
no, I think you're missing the biggest part of Atlanta's deal- it's for 4 years.
Kirk wants to keep playing, the Vikings were looking for a short "bridge" contract. Given that some very good QBs have played to and past 40, Kirk thinks he can do the same and wanted the option. The Vikings didn't offer that.
The contract sounds huge, but it's still $10 million per season below current top dollar...and it's not all guaranteed, despite assumptions of that being a sticking point with the Vikings.
So, while I'll always pull for the Vikings above all others, I'll be watching Kirko's career...and, if he has a better 4 years with Atlanta than the Vikings do without with, both KAM and the haters can add that to the ways that the Kohl's Cash Dork proved them wrong.
the way i read into the contract kirk got is he is walking away with 150 million of the 180 guarenteed. if he only olays 2 seasons his hit is 75 million a year!!! the way it is structured within the cap is different. but again he is getting 150 of the 180 no matter what. 50 signing bonus and 100 million guaranteed
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ Montana Tom said:
I had a deep conversation with a friend who played for USC and is a big Trojans fan. He said that at USC, Sam Darnold was big, athletic, did not get flustered, good arm, mentally strong. All positives that should have translated to success in the NFL. However, his growth got stunted at the Jets and then again at Carolina. I may have judged this move prematurely.
The problem is that no QB that I'm aware of, whose first multiple years have been stunted at the NFL level, has been coached back to achieve his potential. The USC QB hype is legendary Sanchez, Leinart, Darnold.
No way he achieves the potential he had when the Jets drafted him 3rd overall. That ship has sailed. However, I think he'll play better in our offense than he's played to date.
That bar is very low. The very reasonable concern is whether that "better" play is starter caliber play.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ Montana Tom said:
I had a deep conversation with a friend who played for USC and is a big Trojans fan. He said that at USC, Sam Darnold was big, athletic, did not get flustered, good arm, mentally strong. All positives that should have translated to success in the NFL. However, his growth got stunted at the Jets and then again at Carolina. I may have judged this move prematurely.
The problem is that no QB that I'm aware of, whose first multiple years have been stunted at the NFL level, has been coached back to achieve his potential. The USC QB hype is legendary Sanchez, Leinart, Darnold.
No way he achieves the potential he had when the Jets drafted him 3rd overall. That ship has sailed. However, I think he'll play better in our offense than he's played to date.
That bar is very low. The very reasonable concern is whether that "better" play is starter caliber play.
He's going to be our Jim Plunkett.
Quote: @bigbone62 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Zanary said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ HappyViking said:
Are the other NFCN teams paying Kwesi's salary by any chance? It almost
seems intentional how he's making this roster crappier each off-season and void of any rational winning team plan.
Looks bleak right now, but you can see they are signing FAs. If they can hit on a QB in this Draft they like, its a plan that would be considered coming together. KAM needed some flexibility from the cap, that's what he worked toward each year....getting out of the cap hole. They'll have a shitload of cap room next year. They tried to resign Cousins.....are we going to blame KAM for not matching a 4 year contract with the guarantees Atlanta put in there? Not with a straight face. I don't entirely blame KAM for not signing Cousins. Actually, I now
hope Cousins falls flat on his dorky face in Atlanta. The fact that KAM
doesn't have a reasonable succession plan for QB in year three of his
"rebuild" is his fault, however. Did the Vikes believe Cousins when he
said he wanted to stay a Viking? Seems like they did, but Kirk showed
them he only wanted to stay a Viking if they gave him the most
guaranteed money.I guess I blame Kwesi and Kirk equally.
Kwesi has egg on his face (again) while "gosh, gee, golly good guy" Kirk is flipping him "the bird"
on his way to the Falcons. The Vikes don't have a QB now, and everyone here knows they won't come close to playoffs without one. They went from having the best NFCN QB to the worst in year 3 of Kwesi's rebuild.
Kirk Cousins, a guy with young kids, asked for something absolutely crazy and selfish to many Vikings fans. He asked for clarity and peace regarding the last years of his career. For some crazy reason, he didn’t want to wind up a journeyman QB having to constantly move around on one year contracts while his kids grow up. Yep, how selfish of him to not go along with Kwesi’s plan to dump him for a rookie contract as soon as possible.
The Vikings could have easily matched the contract of the Falcons, but they would have actually committed to something and Kwesi didn’t want to. He probably saw it as too risky. So they parted ways.
Kirk Cousins was a standup guy every second he was here. When he was treated like hot garbage by Zimmer despite performing well, he didn’t say a word. He just kept upholding his end of the deal with continuous great performances despite a horrendous line the front office couldn’t find a fix for.
Cousins took LESS MONEY than his market value the past couple of years so the team could get better defense. That’s how he ended up paid 15th in the league despite being a top 5 performer.
This team has been subpar because of poor drafting, not Kirk Cousins. Had they hit on even a few defenders in round 1-3 the past 6 years this was a top 5 team and competitive for a Superbowl. They hit on basically no one. Kirk Cousins didn’t do that. Kirk Cousins didn’t push dead money into this year. KAM did that. He didn’t sign free agencts and didn’t draft poorly. Cousins had zero control over this roster and why its been a struggle. He did everything he could on his end and did it well.
Kirk Cousins has done zip wrong. He’s still paid around 8th in the league - his market contract based upon his performance. The Vikings wouldn’t give him any stability and that was their choice, not Kirk’s.
Dude. I loved Kirko. But he won 1 playoff game. Minnesota has JJ, Darrisaw, etc. up for big contracts. They need help on D. The organization rightly didn't want to sign a 36 year old coming off Achilles surgery to a 4 year contract loaded with guarantees. If you want to live in the fantasy land that they can afford everything and anything, I can't stop your delusion.
I also think Kirk did zero wrong. But he shouldn't be a Viking for what Atlanta offered him.
"He won 1 playoff game"
He was notoriously horribly protected, while deep playoff teams tend to have top-5 lines (KC #5, Philly #1, etc). The TEAM failed to get the IOL shored up until...hell, half of last season.
As much as people talk about how good our D was rated in 2018, the team was obviously not right, overall, and Zimmer's defensive "brilliance" failed to create a single real starting CB after Rhodes. Waynes, Hughes, Dantzler...and let's not forget the complete dumpster fire of Breeland, who Zimmer insisted on starting as he lost us games.
After 2019, and that "one playoff win" which was followed by a trench humiliation at the hands of SF, our defense would be rated in the 30s for 3 straight seasons while our IOL was still barely rated better. How does that TEAM go for championships?
This is why I'm sad to see Cousins go, but almost relieved for him: the absolute babbling BS that HE failed to win more playoff games when the team, the coaching, and other areas were still needing addressing as well...it's just been a special kind of disgusting. After years and years of fragile/weak QBs, we get one that genuinely produces at a high level and many fans forget 52 other players plus the coaches.
And after all your outrage and blather.....he's still won one playoff game in Minnesota. This is the last time I'm going to mention how much I'm a fan of Kirko Chainz. I wanted him back and I've defended him constantly on this board in the past.
You're relieved for him?? lol, yeah the poor guy was so persecuted in Minnesota (eye roll). He was beloved on the team and got one of the loudest ovations ever blowing the Gjallarhorn last season. Save your melodrama and tears for Kirko, he's fine. I'll be rooting for him in Atlanta.
And he was the highest paid QB in the league the first 4 or 5 years he played in purple. Really not understanding the poor Kirk angle by some.
He has never been the highest paid QB.
2018: 3rd
2019: 7th
2020: 5th
2021: 8th
2022: 10th
2023: 15th
It was cumulative over that time period. something I heard on PAs show and looked it up at the time and it was legit.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ Zanary said:
@ HappyViking said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ HappyViking said:
Are the other NFCN teams paying Kwesi's salary by any chance? It almost
seems intentional how he's making this roster crappier each off-season and void of any rational winning team plan.
Looks bleak right now, but you can see they are signing FAs. If they can hit on a QB in this Draft they like, its a plan that would be considered coming together. KAM needed some flexibility from the cap, that's what he worked toward each year....getting out of the cap hole. They'll have a shitload of cap room next year. They tried to resign Cousins.....are we going to blame KAM for not matching a 4 year contract with the guarantees Atlanta put in there? Not with a straight face. I don't entirely blame KAM for not signing Cousins. Actually, I now
hope Cousins falls flat on his dorky face in Atlanta. The fact that KAM
doesn't have a reasonable succession plan for QB in year three of his
"rebuild" is his fault, however. Did the Vikes believe Cousins when he
said he wanted to stay a Viking? Seems like they did, but Kirk showed
them he only wanted to stay a Viking if they gave him the most
guaranteed money.I guess I blame Kwesi and Kirk equally.
Kwesi has egg on his face (again) while "gosh, gee, golly good guy" Kirk is flipping him "the bird"
on his way to the Falcons. The Vikes don't have a QB now, and everyone here knows they won't come close to playoffs without one. They went from having the best NFCN QB to the worst in year 3 of Kwesi's rebuild.
...um:
no, I think you're missing the biggest part of Atlanta's deal- it's for 4 years.
Kirk wants to keep playing, the Vikings were looking for a short "bridge" contract. Given that some very good QBs have played to and past 40, Kirk thinks he can do the same and wanted the option. The Vikings didn't offer that.
The contract sounds huge, but it's still $10 million per season below current top dollar...and it's not all guaranteed, despite assumptions of that being a sticking point with the Vikings.
So, while I'll always pull for the Vikings above all others, I'll be watching Kirko's career...and, if he has a better 4 years with Atlanta than the Vikings do without with, both KAM and the haters can add that to the ways that the Kohl's Cash Dork proved them wrong.
the way i read into the contract kirk got is he is walking away with 150 million of the 180 guarenteed. if he only olays 2 seasons his hit is 75 million a year!!! the way it is structured within the cap is different. but again he is getting 150 of the 180 no matter what. 50 signing bonus and 100 million guaranteed
I may be wrong, but Im pretty sure the signing bonus is included in the guaranteed money.
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