Wilson is the only QB outside of Lawrence that I would move up for, but he goes no lower than 3rd and that is to much draft capital. If Lance is there at 14 I would pull the trigger, but even then I have reservations as I don't know that he is as special as some think. IMO we really need to get a quality dev QB in the fold this year and they need to be the assumed starter for 23 as we can't be forced into keeping Cousins if his contracts demands are going to hinder future caps.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Kirk lead us to a 1-5 start?
The D gave up 32 a game!
Lol.
The defense actually had us a lead in the first half of the GB game despite an extremely lopsided TOP... then Kirk makes a terrible throw just before half and GB scores off it... the second half got out of hand, but our offense didn't really come alive until we were down like 16 points and we scored some garbage time points.
Week 2 the defense held us in the game against Indy, but Kirk and the offense sucked so bad they finally scores a TD late in the 4th quarter and Cousins was brutal. Not gonna blame the defense for that one.
We lost on a last second FG against a good Titans team.
Lost the Seattle game when the defense played really well and held the Seahawks to 20 points until the final minute. Our offense couldn't convert a 4th and 1 inside the 5 to seal the game so again, not really gonna blame the defense solely for that loss.
Cousins played like absolute dog shit against the Falcons.
I guess Kirk's 10 interceptions in those 6 games didn't contribute to any losses... it was all the defense. Lol
There's no denying that Cousins was awful the first six games of the season. Don't know why that was--communication, kubiak adjustment, could've been a lot of things.
But over the last 10 games, he was one of the best QBs in the NFL (he ranked 4th). What I'm getting at is this isn't a consistency thing. If those six games were sprinkled all over the season, that would be different. That would be a QB you couldn't count on. But whatever the problem was early on was fixed. And decidedly so.
Take your Kirk bias out of it and think about it another way: If a corner, for example, started the season with 6 straight bad games but finished with 10 straight where he was the 4th best CB in the league, would you be bullish on that corner? Of course you would.
The dude got 30 million bucks in March to be the leader.
Everyone knew the defense would not be firing on all cylinders at the start of the season.
The QB craps the bed in the first 6 games.
That is when they needed their leader the most.
They missed the playoffs by how many games? 1 right?
There it is.
It is not rocket science.
Sometimes one side of the ball has to carry the other side of the ball for NFL teams.
The Chiefs offense carries them most of the time.
The Vikings needed the offense to carry them especially at the start of last season.
The QB did not deliver.
If you want an excuse for the dude then I would point to the front office's conscious decision to go with Elflein and Dozier at guard.
I mean, they felt so comfortable with that arrangement that they did not draft an interior lineman until pick #253 last year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Kirk lead us to a 1-5 start?
The D gave up 32 a game!
Lol.
The defense actually had us a lead in the first half of the GB game despite an extremely lopsided TOP... then Kirk makes a terrible throw just before half and GB scores off it... the second half got out of hand, but our offense didn't really come alive until we were down like 16 points and we scored some garbage time points.
Week 2 the defense held us in the game against Indy, but Kirk and the offense sucked so bad they finally scores a TD late in the 4th quarter and Cousins was brutal. Not gonna blame the defense for that one.
We lost on a last second FG against a good Titans team.
Lost the Seattle game when the defense played really well and held the Seahawks to 20 points until the final minute. Our offense couldn't convert a 4th and 1 inside the 5 to seal the game so again, not really gonna blame the defense solely for that loss.
Cousins played like absolute dog shit against the Falcons.
I guess Kirk's 10 interceptions in those 6 games didn't contribute to any losses... it was all the defense. Lol
There's no denying that Cousins was awful the first six games of the season. Don't know why that was--communication, kubiak adjustment, could've been a lot of things.
But over the last 10 games, he was one of the best QBs in the NFL (he ranked 4th). What I'm getting at is this isn't a consistency thing. If those six games were sprinkled all over the season, that would be different. That would be a QB you couldn't count on. But whatever the problem was early on was fixed. And decidedly so.
Take your Kirk bias out of it and think about it another way: If a corner, for example, started the season with 6 straight bad games but finished with 10 straight where he was the 4th best CB in the league, would you be bullish on that corner? Of course you would.
I don't have a Kirk bias, I actually applauded the move at the time it happened (despite a vocal portion of the fan base not liking the move). I also don't think he's a bad QB. He's good most of the time, but has more bad games than the elite guys. I'm just looking at this through the lens of... did our window close? I'd say yes, considering we were coming off an NFCCG appearance when we signed Kirk. All we have from that window is magical season with Case Keenum and a satisfying playoff win against the Saints. We didn't make the playoffs the other two seasons with Kirk.
I like what we've done in FA this year and we have a chance to add a really good player at 14... but looking at the youth on this team, are we really expecting a Super Bowl contender? I don't know... it seems like we're trying to reload on the fly and we're stuck in this situation of being up against the cap (and likely will be again in 2022) continually.
I wouldn't be mad if the Vikings trade up to get a guy they like. Kirk has two years left... I don't think he's good enough that we should ignore an opportunity to get a good young QB we love... That's all I'm saying.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Kirk lead us to a 1-5 start?
The D gave up 32 a game!
Lol.
The defense actually had us a lead in the first half of the GB game despite an extremely lopsided TOP... then Kirk makes a terrible throw just before half and GB scores off it... the second half got out of hand, but our offense didn't really come alive until we were down like 16 points and we scored some garbage time points.
Week 2 the defense held us in the game against Indy, but Kirk and the offense sucked so bad they finally scores a TD late in the 4th quarter and Cousins was brutal. Not gonna blame the defense for that one.
We lost on a last second FG against a good Titans team.
Lost the Seattle game when the defense played really well and held the Seahawks to 20 points until the final minute. Our offense couldn't convert a 4th and 1 inside the 5 to seal the game so again, not really gonna blame the defense solely for that loss.
Cousins played like absolute dog shit against the Falcons.
I guess Kirk's 10 interceptions in those 6 games didn't contribute to any losses... it was all the defense. Lol
There's no denying that Cousins was awful the first six games of the season. Don't know why that was--communication, kubiak adjustment, could've been a lot of things.
But over the last 10 games, he was one of the best QBs in the NFL (he ranked 4th). What I'm getting at is this isn't a consistency thing. If those six games were sprinkled all over the season, that would be different. That would be a QB you couldn't count on. But whatever the problem was early on was fixed. And decidedly so.
Take your Kirk bias out of it and think about it another way: If a corner, for example, started the season with 6 straight bad games but finished with 10 straight where he was the 4th best CB in the league, would you be bullish on that corner? Of course you would.
I don't have a Kirk bias, I actually applauded the move at the time it happened (despite a vocal portion of the fan base not liking the move). I also don't think he's a bad QB. He's good most of the time, but has more bad games than the elite guys. I'm just looking at this through the lens of... did our window close? I'd say yes, considering we were coming off an NFCCG appearance when we signed Kirk. All we have from that window is magical season with Case Keenum and a satisfying playoff win against the Saints. We didn't make the playoffs the other two seasons with Kirk.
I like what we've done in FA this year and we have a chance to add a really good player at 14... but looking at the youth on this team, are we really expecting a Super Bowl contender? I don't know... it seems like we're trying to reload on the fly and we're stuck in this situation of being up against the cap (and likely will be again in 2022) continually.
I wouldn't be mad if the Vikings trade up to get a guy they like. Kirk has two years left... I don't think he's good enough that we should ignore an opportunity to get a good young QB we love... That's all I'm saying.
Excellent points!
Look at what GB just did last draft...And that's with a HOF'er @ QB
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
I wonder what this says about the QB ...
![[Image: ujd76h73lkv4.png]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/8v/ujd76h73lkv4.png)
"I walked away from my Pizza Ranch dutch lunch with Kirk thinking, "Can't this guy with his 94 million bucks spring for lunch, and maybe in a decent place?" - Dru Samia, hoping for a job, any job, in the NFL.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
What do the Anti-Kirk folks think of Dan Marino? Not trying to be a smart ass, genuinely curious
If comparing Dan Marino, I would compare the number of Fourth Quarter Comebacks, Game-Winning Drives.
Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Career)Marino:33 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 47 Game-Winning Drives.
Cousins: 11 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 16 Game-Winning Drives
Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Single Season)Marino: 6 Fourth Quarter Comebacks in 1992 with Miami. 6 were Game-Winning drives.
Cousins: 4 Fourth Quarter Comebacks in 2016 with Washington. 4 were Game-Winning drives
Kirk Cousins Between Washington and MinnesotaWashington: 8 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 12 Game-Winning Drives Minnesota: 3 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4 Game-Winning Drives
Active QBs - Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Career)
Tom Brady: 39Drew Brees: 36
Ben Roethlisberger: 35Matthew Stafford: 31
Matt Ryan: 30
Philip Rivers: 29Russel Wilson: 24Andy Dalton: 23Ryan Tannelhill: 22Derek Carr: 21Alex Smith: 19Joe Flacco: 18Aaron Rodgers: 17Cam Newton: 16Ryan Fitzpatrick: 13 Kirk Cousins: 11Matt Schaub: 11Nick Foles: 10Marcus Mariota: 9Carson Wentz: 9Josh Allen: 8Deshawn Watson: 8Blaine Gabbert: 7Jimmy Garappollo: 7Jamison Winston: 7https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm
Active QBs - Game Winning Drives (Career)
Drew Brees 53Tom Brady 48Ben
Roethlisberger 46
Matt Ryan 38Matthew
Stafford 38
Philip
Rivers 35
Russell
Wilson 31
Andy Dalton 27
Aaron
Rodgers 25
Derek Carr 24
Joe Flacco 24
Alex Smith 23
Ryan
Tannehill 22
Cam Newton 20
Ryan
Fitzpatrick 18
Kirk Cousins 16
Dak Prescott
15
Matt Schaub 14
Nick Foles 12
Josh Allen 11
Marcus
Mariota 11
Jameis
Winston 11
Case Keenum 10
Deshaun
Watson 10
Carson Wentz
10
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/l...active.htm
Justin Fields just blazed a 4.41/40 training for his Pro Day. I don't know that the Vikings should trade up, but if one of the top 4 QB's were to fall into our laps at #14...consider it a gift and pull the trigger.
Quote: @DeepFreeze05 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
What do the Anti-Kirk folks think of Dan Marino? Not trying to be a smart ass, genuinely curious
If comparing Dan Marino, I would compare the number of Fourth Quarter Comebacks, Game-Winning Drives.
Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Career)Marino:33 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 47 Game-Winning Drives.
Cousins: 11 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 16 Game-Winning Drives
Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Single Season)Marino: 6 Fourth Quarter Comebacks in 1992 with Miami. 6 were Game-Winning drives.
Cousins: 4 Fourth Quarter Comebacks in 2016 with Washington. 4 were Game-Winning drives
Kirk Cousins Between Washington and MinnesotaWashington: 8 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 12 Game-Winning Drives Minnesota: 3 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4 Game-Winning Drives
Active QBs - Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Career)
Tom Brady: 39Drew Brees: 36
Ben Roethlisberger: 35Matthew Stafford: 31
Matt Ryan: 30
Philip Rivers: 29Russel Wilson: 24Andy Dalton: 23Ryan Tannelhill: 22Derek Carr: 21Alex Smith: 19Joe Flacco: 18Aaron Rodgers: 17Cam Newton: 16Ryan Fitzpatrick: 13 Kirk Cousins: 11Matt Schaub: 11Nick Foles: 10Marcus Mariota: 9Carson Wentz: 9Josh Allen: 8Deshawn Watson: 8Blaine Gabbert: 7Jimmy Garappollo: 7Jamison Winston: 7https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm
Active QBs - Game Winning Drives (Career)
Drew Brees 53Tom Brady 48Ben
Roethlisberger 46
Matt Ryan 38Matthew
Stafford 38
Philip
Rivers 35
Russell
Wilson 31
Andy Dalton 27
Aaron
Rodgers 25
Derek Carr 24
Joe Flacco 24
Alex Smith 23
Ryan
Tannehill 22
Cam Newton 20
Ryan
Fitzpatrick 18
Kirk Cousins 16
Dak Prescott
15
Matt Schaub 14
Nick Foles 12
Josh Allen 11
Marcus
Mariota 11
Jameis
Winston 11
Case Keenum 10
Deshaun
Watson 10
Carson Wentz
10
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/l...ctive.html
Brees and Rivers are retired but... yeah.
What stands out to me most about these lists is how high Josh Allen already is. Impressive
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ DeepFreeze05 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
What do the Anti-Kirk folks think of Dan Marino? Not trying to be a smart ass, genuinely curious
Brees and Rivers are retired but... yeah.
What stands out to me most about these lists is how high Josh Allen already is. Impressive
I thought about removing them but they did play this past season.
Here is a comparison between a 40-41 year old Brett Favre to Kirk Cousins.
Minnesota Vikings: Brett Favre vs Kirk CousinsFavre: 29 starts - 3 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4 Game-Winning DrivesCousins: 47 starts - 3 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4 Game-Winning Drives
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Justin Fields just blazed a 4.41/40 training for his Pro Day. I don't know that the Vikings should trade up, but if one of the top 4 QB's were to fall into our laps at #14...consider it a gift and pull the trigger.
That's how I feel about it. But I can't see it happening
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