The Defenses across the League sure as hell looked a lot better the 2nd half of last season. And did anyone happen to catch that offensive snoozefest that happened in the Super Bowl?
Methinks this notion that Defense is irrelevant is ignoring a lot of history, including recent history.
Quote: @"kmillard" said:
@"Jor-El" said:
@"kmillard" said:
@"pumpf" said:
Blame Cousins all you want... but the difference between last season and the season before it... had nothing to do with the QB. The defense regressed noticeably. But, yeah: blame the QB for that (re: wins and losses).
Good Point. Its not just cousins that needs to play up to his contract, I can think of only one of the High paid Defensive Players who met his contract expectations last year ( Danielle Hunter).
Is it so significant that we had to pay a QB? The Vikings are one of 14 teams with $25-$31M cap space at QB this year, so it's not like this is an outlier within the NFL. Cousins costs about $5M more than Derek Carr or Eli Manning - would that extra $5M make that much difference?
The real trap for the Vikings, in terms of salary, is that they have bucked the NFL trend by believing they should spend heavily on defense in an era when the NFL is legislating away the impact of defense. We have 52.73% of our 2019 cap space allocated to defensive players, highest percentage in the NFL. That's not just due to 1 player, it's a series of decisions - 10 defensive players on our squad add up to $80M in cap space. If Cousins was a mistake or was just getting more than a smart team allocates for QB, he'll be gone after 2020; the commitment to the defense will be a longer-lived "trap" if it was a bad strategy.
I wasn't calling him out. I agree with your assessment, I was more pointing to the fact that the high paid defense took much of the year off in 2018.
Sorry, I did not think you were - I was adding on you remarks about the defense.
Thanks a lot maroon---first ya get me drinking the koolaid AGAIN with all the stars aligning player versus coaching setup, then ya gut punch me with the reality check of being a long suffering Viking Fan(yes there is a support group for that)
Quote: @"suncoastvike" said:
I don't agree that we "fell in a trap". We're in a pit for over 2 decades. We have not had the same QB named opening day starter for a 3rd straight season since Culpeper. We forever been looking for a long term solution. How can you fall into a trap when your still trying to crawl out of a pit? We may still be in that pit/trap. We didn't just fall in it because of Kirk.
This is what I was thinking when I saw the thread title. It would be great to find a QB that we could pencil in for the next decade. Maybe Browning could be our Kurt Warner.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@"suncoastvike" said:
I don't agree that we "fell in a trap". We're in a pit for over 2 decades. We have not had the same QB named opening day starter for a 3rd straight season since Culpeper. We forever been looking for a long term solution. How can you fall into a trap when your still trying to crawl out of a pit? We may still be in that pit/trap. We didn't just fall in it because of Kirk.
This is what I was thinking when I saw the thread title. It would be great to find a QB that we could pencil in for the next decade. Maybe Browning could be our Kurt Warner.
Well, they did guarantee Browning more $$ than Mannion...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@"suncoastvike" said:
I don't agree that we "fell in a trap". We're in a pit for over 2 decades. We have not had the same QB named opening day starter for a 3rd straight season since Culpeper. We forever been looking for a long term solution. How can you fall into a trap when your still trying to crawl out of a pit? We may still be in that pit/trap. We didn't just fall in it because of Kirk.
This is what I was thinking when I saw the thread title. It would be great to find a QB that we could pencil in for the next decade. Maybe Browning could be our Kurt Warner.
It will be interesting to see how the backup situation flushes out come September behind Cousins. Sloter has the size, arm strength and mobility that you want at the position, but its obvious that the Vikings might like him, but they aren't loving him. As always, let them compete and see how it all goes.
Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
The Defenses across the League sure as hell looked a lot better the 2nd half of last season. And did anyone happen to catch that offensive snoozefest that happened in the Super Bowl?
Methinks this notion that Defense is irrelevant is ignoring a lot of history, including recent history.
People always seems to forget that every single year offenses get preferential treatment during the regular season, and then once we get to the playoffs, they "let the players play". That said I think it's pretty tough to win a SB without being semi-competent on both sides of the ball.
Jor-El hit the nail on the head.
The decision to trade for Bradford put into motion the signing of Cousins. That was really a dumb trade.
Spielman got taken advantage of by Roseman really.
I have no idea why Spielman had Hill as his #2 QB if he was not ready to play him. The Patriots lost Brady in the first game in 2008 and went with Matt Cassel who had less experience than Hill. They did not panic and trade a future 1st round pick to get a dude that was now out of favor with a 2nd team.
If they play Hill and sign some other backup off the scrap heap they like lose 2 more games. I think that is a reasonable guess and that would have put them at 6-10 and drafting 9th in 2017.
They could have been in the running for Mahomes (who they brought in for a visit) and Watson. Even if they did not want one of them they could have maybe traded with the Chiefs or Texans.
The lesson to learn here is you never trade your 1st round pick unless you are getting an All Pro like Allen.
At the worst, Spielman should have at least given Hill 3 to 5 more games to see how he was doing and to try and drive that price down for Bradford. If he could have gotten Bradford for a 3rd and something else that would have been easier to understand.
That move set into motion this whole scenario.
I would refute those that say Cousins fumbles a lot. He fumbles just as much as other QBs. The problem last year was that the Vikings were very unlucky recovering those fumbles.
https://www.footballperspective.com/the-vikings-had-the-worst-fumble-luck-in-2018/
Last year Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, Lamar Jackson, Case Keenum, Josh Rosen, Matt Ryan, and Russell Wilson all had more fumbles (max was 12 so not that many).
Carson Wentz, Marcus Mariota, Deshaun Watson, and Patrick Mahomes all had the same number of fumbles.
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M
The narrative that Cousins fumbled a lot is really false. He is about in the middle. Plus, two of the fumbles charged to Cousins were the backwards (laterals) passes they threw that went out of bounds. Very very few posters ever mention this fact.
I think the Viking should draft a QB next year no matter what they do with Cousins. I was kind of surprised they did not take one this year but I guess after Grier was gone they felt the UDFA route was the way to go.
Quote: @"MarkSP18" said:
Jor-El hit the nail on the head.
The decision to trade for Bradford put into motion the signing of Cousins. That was really a dumb trade.
Spielman got taken advantage of by Roseman really.
I have no idea why Spielman had Hill as his #2 QB if he was not ready to play him. The Patriots lost Brady in the first game in 2008 and went with Matt Cassel who had less experience than Hill. They did not panic and trade a future 1st round pick to get a dude that was now out of favor with a 2nd team.
If they play Hill and sign some other backup off the scrap heap they like lose 2 more games. I think that is a reasonable guess and that would have put them at 6-10 and drafting 9th in 2017.
They could have been in the running for Mahomes (who they brought in for a visit) and Watson. Even if they did not want one of them they could have maybe traded with the Chiefs or Texans.
The lesson to learn here is you never trade your 1st round pick unless you are getting an All Pro like Allen.
At the worst, Spielman should have at least given Hill 3 to 5 more games to see how he was doing and to try and drive that price down for Bradford. If he could have gotten Bradford for a 3rd and something else that would have been easier to understand.
That move set into motion this whole scenario.
I would refute those that say Cousins fumbles a lot. He fumbles just as much as other QBs. The problem last year was that the Vikings were very unlucky recovering those fumbles.
https://www.footballperspective.com/the-vikings-had-the-worst-fumble-luck-in-2018/
Last year Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, Lamar Jackson, Case Keenum, Josh Rosen, Matt Ryan, and Russell Wilson all had more fumbles (max was 12 so not that many).
Carson Wentz, Marcus Mariota, Deshaun Watson, and Patrick Mahomes all had the same number of fumbles.
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M
The narrative that Cousins fumbled a lot is really false. He is about in the middle. Plus, two of the fumbles charged to Cousins were the backwards (laterals) passes they threw that went out of bounds. Very very few posters ever mention this fact.
I think the Viking should draft a QB next year no matter what they do with Cousins. I was kind of surprised they did not take one this year but I guess after Grier was gone they felt the UDFA route was the way to go.
I think RS/MZ were comfortable with Hill holding down the fort a game or 2, not a season. They had what they thought was a SB contending team too, lots of at stake.
I'll bet there were many in Eden Prairie who even thought Bradford was going to be an improvement over Bridgewater. Those were such extenuating circumstances, I applaud them for what they did, even in retrospect.
But then again, I was never a big Bridgewater fan and I felt Bradford could have been the final cog to the machine.
Quote: @"purplefaithful" said:
@"MarkSP18" said:
Jor-El hit the nail on the head.
The decision to trade for Bradford put into motion the signing of Cousins. That was really a dumb trade.
Spielman got taken advantage of by Roseman really.
I have no idea why Spielman had Hill as his #2 QB if he was not ready to play him. The Patriots lost Brady in the first game in 2008 and went with Matt Cassel who had less experience than Hill. They did not panic and trade a future 1st round pick to get a dude that was now out of favor with a 2nd team.
If they play Hill and sign some other backup off the scrap heap they like lose 2 more games. I think that is a reasonable guess and that would have put them at 6-10 and drafting 9th in 2017.
They could have been in the running for Mahomes (who they brought in for a visit) and Watson. Even if they did not want one of them they could have maybe traded with the Chiefs or Texans.
The lesson to learn here is you never trade your 1st round pick unless you are getting an All Pro like Allen.
At the worst, Spielman should have at least given Hill 3 to 5 more games to see how he was doing and to try and drive that price down for Bradford. If he could have gotten Bradford for a 3rd and something else that would have been easier to understand.
That move set into motion this whole scenario.
I would refute those that say Cousins fumbles a lot. He fumbles just as much as other QBs. The problem last year was that the Vikings were very unlucky recovering those fumbles.
https://www.footballperspective.com/the-vikings-had-the-worst-fumble-luck-in-2018/
Last year Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, Lamar Jackson, Case Keenum, Josh Rosen, Matt Ryan, and Russell Wilson all had more fumbles (max was 12 so not that many).
Carson Wentz, Marcus Mariota, Deshaun Watson, and Patrick Mahomes all had the same number of fumbles.
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M
The narrative that Cousins fumbled a lot is really false. He is about in the middle. Plus, two of the fumbles charged to Cousins were the backwards (laterals) passes they threw that went out of bounds. Very very few posters ever mention this fact.
I think the Viking should draft a QB next year no matter what they do with Cousins. I was kind of surprised they did not take one this year but I guess after Grier was gone they felt the UDFA route was the way to go.
I think RS/MZ were comfortable with Hill holding down the fort a game or 2, not a season. They had what they thought was a SB contending team too, lots of at stake.
I'll bet there were many in Eden Prairie who even thought Bradford was going to be an improvement over Bridgewater. Those were such extenuating circumstances, I applaud them for what they did, even in retrospect.
But then again, I was never a big Bridgewater fan and I felt Bradford could have been the final cog to the machine.
Yes, I believe that is true: some people in WP might have almost welcomed the opportunity to replace Bridgewater. No one will ever admit it, but I don't think Bridgewater was unanimously loved within the organization. Zimmer probably loved him as a minimize-mistakes/game-manager/handoff-to-Peterson QB, but as Peterson faded from the team's plans, I think others wanted a big strong-armed pocket passer, and thought Bradford could be the guy. By then we had Pat Shurmur here, who loved Bradford. I think the division over Bridgewater showed up in the way he left the team last year.
Like several others, I will admit I liked the move at the time. But we are still allowed to look back and say it was a mistake with long impact, and that we're disappointed our professional GM did not make a better decision.
Another aspect of that trade: we were already in cap space trouble. Yes, even though we were in the "QB on a rookie contract magic formula" that everyone in the NFL now loves, we could not afford to pay Bradford's contract ($18M in 2016), so we negotiated with the Eagles to pay $11M by improving our trade from a 2nd round pick to a 1st. So our cap space problem cost us a draft pick.
But hey, if the Vikings' salary problems are due to a "quarterback trap", why were we already in trouble in 2016 while only paying Bridgewater and Hill about $3M combined? Partly due to some high offensive contracts (Kalil, Peterson) but we were already paying a big chunk of our cap to defensive players, and that is only worsening.
I'm having trouble feeling optimistic about this coming season (I know, some would say ever about me), because we are so cap-strapped that the team is asking players to restructure and considering trading away an established starting TE or CB to save salary space. Championship seasons usually start by adding more talent and resources, not being forced to remove some. Heaven help this team if they need to sign a veteran in week 2 due to injury.
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