Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ prairieghost said:You get a guy like Kearse who comes in for spot duty, and he does pretty decent, but there's a guy in George Iloka sitting on the bench for an unknown reason who I would think could really bring something that's missing to this D. I really don't understand why he's not playing. Does he have a mystery injury that's not been reported? Is he having trouble with the different terminology for a scheme he's already very familiar with? Has his play slipped so bad that he sucks worse than guys like Kearse or Sendejo?? I really thought this guy was going to come in and put Dejo on the bench, but here we are 4 games into the season and he's not even playing..
Could it be that Zimmer complexifies and changes the defense so much that 4 years away from him has forced Iloka into a remedial tutoring program that will make him unable to play half a season?
I imagine that's possible since there's no way to know that unless you're coach Zim, Iloka, Jerry Gray or George Edwards. When he was signed, both Zim and Iloka remarked that he should get up to speed quickly, that really it was only a matter of learning the different terminology.
What FSU said about Iloka makes a lot sense to me. Iloka is the big nickel piece and maybe is taking more time to learn the role....or perhaps Zim is abandoning the big nickel idea. FSU's post was really insightful and seemed completely plausible to me, on all counts.
My impression is they aren't getting much pressure with their 4 down linemen. Zim isn't sending the blitz quite as often. And they seem to be playing a lot more zone and less press man coverage. I think this is something Zimmer will figure out. Watching Barr trailing a wide receiver down the field is crazy. Where was the safety over the top?
I don't know if playing IIoka would make any difference, but why didn't they get him some snaps in the Buffalo game blowout?
This team has only lost two games and still has a chance. I don't know if they were highly overrated or just under performing. We shall see.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ Purplewhizz said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
I know some will always disagree but I think the veteran leadership is really important. I have said it often and will continue to say that this defense misses BRob and Newman too.
Its not just Robison. It’s Griffen and Newman too.
All of the veteran leadership that side of the ball is gone now. Harrison Smith is a good player but he’s not that guy.
Why isn't Kendricks? Smart, intense, 4th year, team commitment in new contract. MLB usually is QB of the defense.
A stud player with a big contract doesn't make a leader...Harry would be a perfect example. Maybe Kendricks being a little brother isn't comfortable being that guy that calls the shots. ...it's a personality as much as it is the knowledge and experience.
Smith and Kendricks were both captains in college. Kendricks even won some sort of "captains" award at UCLA. They must have some leadership qualities. I recall Saint Richard being LAUDED for bringing in "leaders" for the team. Revisionist history.....NOW they're not leaders. Gotcha.
Robison, Newman and Griffen were all part of the defense during last season's playoff debacle.....what was the EXCUSE then?
Cousins, Joseph and Rudolph are all longtime NFL players and starters, and all are current captains. Is it that they don't YELL enough? Curse enough? Throw their helmets enough? What specifically do they not bring to the table? Isn't Newman still on the sidelines? At practices? Communicating with players in between plays and during the endless timeouts during the game?
We all know veteran leadership is important, to a degree, but I'm not buying that the loss of Robison and Newman, 2 guys with an average age of @ 38, are the reason this defense has been so Frazier-esque since January.
It seems to me that these are just more EXCUSES so Vikings fans can feel like victims instead of owning up to the possible fact that maybe, just MAYBE, the Vikings are simply being outplayed and outcoached by their opponents. That's a wacky outlook I know, but it just might be true.
Quote: @njvike said:
Smith and Kendricks were both captains in college. Kendricks even won some sort of "captains" award at UCLA. They must have some leadership qualities. I recall Saint Richard being LAUDED for bringing in "leaders" for the team. Revisionist history.....NOW they're not leaders. Gotcha.
Robison, Newman and Griffen were all part of the defense during last season's playoff debacle.....what was the EXCUSE then?
Cousins, Joseph and Rudolph are all longtime NFL players and starters, and all are current captains. Is it that they don't YELL enough? Curse enough? Throw their helmets enough? What specifically do they not bring to the table? Isn't Newman still on the sidelines? At practices? Communicating with players in between plays and during the endless timeouts during the game?
We all know veteran leadership is important, to a degree, but I'm not buying that the loss of Robison and Newman, 2 guys with an average age of @ 38, are the reason this defense has been so Frazier-esque since January.
It seems to me that these are just more EXCUSES so Vikings fans can feel like victims instead of owning up to the possible fact that maybe, just MAYBE, the Vikings are simply being outplayed and outcoached by their opponents. That's a wacky outlook I know, but it just might be true.
Crudely put this could very well be the problem.
As far as "leaders" of this team or, at least, the defense.
Yes I'm sure many of these guys were Captains in college and I'm sure that all were probably Captains in High School. However, being a captain and being a leader is two different entities. One is just a title the other is a characteristic.
The fact that you have to ask why one of these guys haven't stepped up to be a leader should quite simply put, answer the question for you.
Don't under estimate what Brian did when he was on the field, sideline or off the field
Some of the things he did that made him a leader had nothing to do with football.
On the field, as someone put it, the title "Captain" did not earn him the respect that he got from his coaches and teammates. That is something that is earned in many different ways.
Leading by example, respect given to each teammate, responsibility for each teammate (taken on as part of that leadership) etc.
He was a leader on this team far longer than most of you know and long before he was named as a Captain.
Don't under estimate his football IQ. He was a very smart player, ( i taught him some little things at a very young age, but he developed much more on his own) given the responsibility or burden (depending on his willingness to except it) which he accepted it as a responsibility to decipher each opposing team's verbiage (or signals) on blocking assignments for running and passing. When he was the starter he did this in the first 2 series of each game, once deciphered he had the coaches approval to change the defensive call or shift personnel along the line of scrimmage (front 7). Many times putting another player in position to make a play, rather than himself. Sometimes drawing the offensive blocking assignments to himself to free up another player or get another player in a one on one.
How do I know these things? I asked and i listened to the commentators who sometimes told what his responsibilities were. And I observed them too.
Now I never said he is the reason why the Vikings defense is not doing well. I believe others were insinuating. I did state the reasons what I thought were the problems. Maybe because they too saw how much he was doing ( while still on the team) or listened as well.
Anyway, there is no real way to prove that theory is true or false, except for him to return to the team. As of now I don't see that happening. I've stated the reasons why and apparently I don't know what I'm talking about there either. No I believe the next time you see Brian as a part of this team will be when he decides to retire and signs that one day contract. I will be shocked if he is brought back any other way.
As for me, well, i may be lurking more than posting, since he's no longer a part of this team, and to keep from causing bitter feelings between some of the Viking fans and myself I will try to stay silent.
This is not a goodbye, as i have made some pretty good friendships between myself and some of you.
How did Brian put It? See ya later guys and gals.
Quote: @96POPS said:
@ njvike said:
Smith and Kendricks were both captains in college. Kendricks even won some sort of "captains" award at UCLA. They must have some leadership qualities. I recall Saint Richard being LAUDED for bringing in "leaders" for the team. Revisionist history.....NOW they're not leaders. Gotcha.
Robison, Newman and Griffen were all part of the defense during last season's playoff debacle.....what was the EXCUSE then?
Cousins, Joseph and Rudolph are all longtime NFL players and starters, and all are current captains. Is it that they don't YELL enough? Curse enough? Throw their helmets enough? What specifically do they not bring to the table? Isn't Newman still on the sidelines? At practices? Communicating with players in between plays and during the endless timeouts during the game?
We all know veteran leadership is important, to a degree, but I'm not buying that the loss of Robison and Newman, 2 guys with an average age of @ 38, are the reason this defense has been so Frazier-esque since January.
It seems to me that these are just more EXCUSES so Vikings fans can feel like victims instead of owning up to the possible fact that maybe, just MAYBE, the Vikings are simply being outplayed and outcoached by their opponents. That's a wacky outlook I know, but it just might be true.
Crudely put this could very well be the problem.
As far as "leaders" of this team or, at least, the defense.
Yes I'm sure many of these guys were Captains in college and I'm sure that all were probably Captains in High School. However, being a captain and being a leader is two different entities. One is just a title the other is a characteristic.
The fact that you have to ask why one of these guys haven't stepped up to be a leader should quite simply put, answer the question for you.
Don't under estimate what Brian did when he was on the field, sideline or off the field
Some of the things he did that made him a leader had nothing to do with football.
On the field, as someone put it, the title "Captain" did not earn him the respect that he got from his coaches and teammates. That is something that is earned in many different ways.
Leading by example, respect given to each teammate, responsibility for each teammate (taken on as part of that leadership) etc.
He was a leader on this team far longer than most of you know and long before he was named as a Captain.
Don't under estimate his football IQ. He was a very smart player, ( i taught him some little things at a very young age, but he developed much more on his own) given the responsibility or burden (depending on his willingness to except it) which he accepted it as a responsibility to decipher each opposing team's verbiage (or signals) on blocking assignments for running and passing. When he was the starter he did this in the first 2 series of each game, once deciphered he had the coaches approval to change the defensive call or shift personnel along the line of scrimmage (front 7). Many times putting another player in position to make a play, rather than himself. Sometimes drawing the offensive blocking assignments to himself to free up another player or get another player in a one on one.
How do I know these things? I asked and i listened to the commentators who sometimes told what his responsibilities were. And I observed them too.
Now I never said he is the reason why the Vikings defense is not doing well. I believe others were insinuating. I did state the reasons what I thought were the problems. Maybe because they too saw how much he was doing ( while still on the team) or listened as well.
Anyway, there is no real way to prove that theory is true or false, except for him to return to the team. As of now I don't see that happening. I've stated the reasons why and apparently I don't know what I'm talking about there either. No I believe the next time you see Brian as a part of this team will be when he decides to retire and signs that one day contract. I will be shocked if he is brought back any other way.
As for me, well, i may be lurking more than posting, since he's no longer a part of this team, and to keep from causing bitter feelings between some of the Viking fans and myself I will try to stay silent.
This is not a goodbye, as i have made some pretty good friendships between myself and some of you.
How did Brian put It? See ya later guys and gals.
Hey Pops, I certainly did not mean to offend you. Your son was a great Viking and a favorite of mine. Apologies if my "crude" statement of the team being outplayed and outcoached came across as being a slight to your son. Especially since I love your insight as to Ricky being the lying little weasel I've always thought he was!
That being said, I'll stick to my statement. It would be one thing if we were talking about a single game, but this team's issues encompass several games dating back to last season. It is not 1 or 2 areas, it's multiple areas and 10 days of Zimmer looking at tape ain't gonna fix it, IMHO.
For the record, I thought it was a really bush league move to cut Brian after he agreed to a pay cut and openly said this would be his last year. I have a sneaking suspicion that L'il Ricky made a hand shake agreement with Brian about his last years and reneged, but thats just my opinion based on what I've read.
I wish you and Brian nothing but the best in the future, you both seem to be first class people. I hope there's no hard feelings. Again, I meant no personal slight to Brian, my take was strictly an organizational criticism.
Peace.
This D has looked like shit since NO figured Zim out in 2nd half last year.
Did I miss something last year?
Did Brian go home at half time of that game?
Did he make the trip to Philly?
Asking for a friend!
nj, no offense taken bro. That was an honest statement from me. Holman, the same for you, tell the friend that some teams may have just figured us out. On the other hand two games out of 18 especially when those 2 games were playoff games ( where you win or go home. But again, i have my opinion and so does everyone else.
Here's going to be an unpopular opinion... and possibly wrong cuz it's an opinion. =)
Many have asked "how come no one has stepped up into the vacant leadership role" that was created when a leader was unceremoniously cut. How come (some)players are focusing more on their own stat numbers instead of doing their jobs(the little things) that don't show up as "production"? So you have a player that is much loved/respected in the locker room and he is a leader, has a great relationship with his coaches, peers and the media. From the outside looking in... the player is the face of the Viking D and a leader in the locker room. This player has worked with upper management and has taken pay cut after pay cut and continued to do his job well(yes that meant all the little things that didn't show up in the stats). He has made it known that he wants to play one more year and retire and that seems to be what is going to happen. Bam, he's cut. Gone. He sacrifices his stats to do the little things and one of the reasons he's cut is that he's not producing stats. Asked to do things that don't show up in the stats and then use lack of stats as one of the reasons to cut that player? Ask him to take a pay cut so you can give larger pay to players that have larger stats? What message does that say to players about "doing the little things" that make this defense work? Why would anyone want to step into the players shoes that just got screwed over? Me next! Pick me! I want less pay and more responsibility! (Bill Lumbergh voice)Yeah,,,, I'm going need you to come in on Saturday...
Teams will figure out a defense and good teams did last year no doubt about it. The adjustments NO made at halftime were the correct ones. And Philly just never stopped attacking. Zimmer's teams have had difficulty with offenses that are on constant attack mode. Our three losses last year were to the Lions, Steelers and Panthers. The lions have always attacked Zim's D via the air and are 5-3 against him. It's really not that big of a mystery. Our D is and has been vulnerable via big plays thru the air. It's why Zim drafts DBs all the damn time. If the other team protects their QB our pass coverage struggles. Just like many other NFL teams. It's not all about losing veteran leadership and how it was done... but I believe that it does have an impact on a team.
Hopefully the start of this season will be the fire that forges the young players into a hardened defense, willing to do their job, execute their responsibility for the good of the team and not the fire that burns this team to the ground.
I agree 100% with Pumpf on this one. Youth is the future, but the importance of veteran leadership within the locker room and on the field can't be underestimated and lack of it will lead to wild inconsistency in the product on the field. Our D is living proof of that now. I believe younger players too often chase stats and vet's want to chase teams goals - mainly rings. I thought they made a mistake letting BRob go this season. That is playing out now with Everson out.
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