@medaille said:What's the deal with Floyd and Treadwell having so little production? You'd think that between the 2 of them, they'd be able to stumble into something that resembles an NFL receiver, but combined they have less than 280 yards. Is there something in our scheme or something in Case that is inhibiting them? Floyd has had multiple years hovering around 1000 yds, so it’s not like he’s completely worthless. I would hope that any FA X receiver we bring in would at least be able to get at least 500 yards.
Case seems to rarely make it to his third or fourth reads and has a tendency to just force plays to Thielen and Diggs. Thankfully, they are good enough to win those contested matchups more often than not, but it lead to some really ill-advised plays. With Treadwell, he did make some plays and even drew pass interferences when given the chance, but he was almost like a 4th read for Case. Case would look for Thielen, Diggs, try to force it to one of them, and then look to Treadwell. Wright got more opportunities, but I agree with others who think Wright had designed plays where he was the first or second read.
As for Floyd, he just does not look as fast and athletic as he was in Arizona. To be fair, the dude has gone through a lot over the past two years, so his training may have slipped as he's shifted his focus to working on other areas of his life. Not sure if that's the case, but he was used more as a blocker than as a receiver.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ FSUVike said:
Case looks for Adam and Diggs on every play unless Shurmer specifically calls for the play to go to someone else.
I don't really blame him, but the really good QBs don't lock.onto one or two guys every play. Well, Ben does sometimes with Brown, but can you blame him either?
More cerebral guys will read the Defense and adjust to the WR they feel has the best chance to get open based on what they are seeing. They also know that helps open things up more because it forces the Defense to react to your #3 and #4 WRs killing their Nickel and Dime CBs.
That's another knock against both Case and Teddy. They're both guys who go with the called play and rarely audible into anything else. Sure, both will go through progressions post-snap when the primary read is covered. But they're not guys who beat you pre-snap.
I want a QB that can read Defenses and audible out of runs into stacked boxes and makes the right decisions to involve more playmakers besides the Big Two.
What you describe is what 1/2 the NFL is still looking for 
But on a more serious note, I do agree that Keenum can get stuck on his reads from time to time. The good thing is that both Diggs and Thielen get good seperation and can give him a target rather quickly.
He could make it work, because both Thielen and Diggs were strong at winning contested catches, but I didn't feel like Case was throwing open receivers, hitting 3rd or 4th options, or knowing when to kill a play. Instead he was more of a game. He'd force plays to his playmakers that arguably more cerebral QBs wouldn't have attempted, he'd run around to extend plays, and sometimes heave up odd moon passes that even when they worked felt like terrible plays.
Case is a tough player to evaluate. He's a better player than I gave him credit for and made some incredible plays, but he has some real flaws. The hard part is that depending on how the ball bounces his flaws can manifest as strengths. He's a bit of a poor man's Favre who can win if he doesn't make mistakes, but he doesn't have near the ability that Favre had to overcome mistakes. Few players do, but I think it contributed to the feeling that he was a player riding a hot streak and was hugely benefiting from teams dropping picks and balls bouncing in his favor. That didn't account for all of his success, but it was part of it. We could do worse than Keenum over the next 2-3 years, but at the same time guys like Cousins, Smith, Manning, or even a healthy Bradford or Bridgewater could potentially do more with those same weapons.
The DL will be a hot topic of discussion. I feel like we need one more pass rusher to rotate in. I was hoping that Weatherly or Bowers would be it, but Weatherly was more of a base end and Bowers barely got any chances. Maybe Bowers takes on a bigger role next year, but I would target another pass rusher anywhere in the 1st four rounds.
I agree that 3T/UT is a huge need. The ability to generate quick pressure up the middle is the best way to stop quick passing attacks like Brees and Foles and we simply didn't have the pieces to do this. I think a healthy Floyd could have done that, but we'll never know. I had hoped that Jaleel Johnson would help with that, but I think that a high draft pick or priority FA signing is a big need. If we can start generating quick pressure up the middle, then that covers one of the few big weaknesses on D.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
See, I think Alex Smith is the kind of player an OC can trust. He's been in several different systems and has usually been allowed to audible.
Any more it seems most plays come in from the sidelines with both a run and pass option based on what the QB srrs the Defense doing. The last few years it just feels like whichever QB was under Center was just going to roll with the initial call.
Give me a guy like Smith who will see Jarius lined up on a scrub or rookie or Floyd or Treadwell having a significant height advantage and take that opportunity vs. always throwing to guys who routinely get double covered.
I think Smith is the perfect QB for this team at the right time. I really just wish we would not be in this QB situation every year.
are we the only team to never get a legit franchise QB? we had pepps for a few years but he had moss then shredded his knee. we had/have teddy who i thought was our guy... shredded his knee. how many teams always have a QB?
Quote: @Caactorvike said:
forgive me if this is a stupid question ( i dont know contract rules like some of you guys!) but if we lose McKinnon or Teddy or Sam are we owed any compensatory picks? I know we have no contracts with Teddy and Sam. Can we use a transition tag or something so if they walk we at least get a draft pick as consolation?
Not a bad question at all.
When you lose UFA's they are ranked against all of the other UFA's other teams lose. That creates somewhat of a list which is used to calculate comp picks. Whenever you sign a played in UFA it cancels out a similar player you have lost. So for example if you had Matt Kalil leave in 2017 who would have been a 3rd round comp pick and sign Riley Reiff also a 3rd round comp pick, you get none. There are some nuances, but this is high level how it works.
As for the transition tag, you wouldn't get a comp pick if they signed with another team since you the team opted not to match a prospective deal. If you want a comp pick you're best letting them walk away and not signing anyone.
Quote: @Neptizzle said:
are we the only team to never get a legit franchise QB? we had pepps for a few years but he had moss then shredded his knee. we had/have teddy who i thought was our guy... shredded his knee. how many teams always have a QB?
Been a long time hasn't it? Amazing the Vikings have succeeded as much as they have with so many question marks at the position for so long.
Its the only reason I envy the Packers who've been blessed with 2 HOF QB's in a row & over 25 years.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Neptizzle said:
Ive never been a huge Smith fan, but the guy is a trustworthy winner. Put him in with our D and we win 12-13 games while Sloter develops or we draft our guy. I still love Teddy, but is his knee going to make it?
With how open our guys ALWAYS are, get an accurate, safe passer in here who can hit one or two over the top a game, give us 1 more OL in the draft to allow Hill to move back to the bench and suddenly our O is really good. Get the replacement 3DT and suddenly we are right back here next year but talking about our win.
We're on the same page, friend. Not liking the DT FA Class, though. Poe and Richardson are the best but will want monster deals and seem to play better in contract years.
I think people may be surprised by Richardson's market. He hasn't been highly productive for 2 years now and is nearly limited to a 4-3 team. He could be a candidate for a 1 year deal at $8-9M that could become a more longer term deal near his actual market value of $12-13M. I still doubt the Vikings would drop that change on another D-lineman, but they do have the cap space to be a little extravagant.
Quote: @medaille said:
What's the deal with Floyd and Treadwell having so little
production? You'd think that between the
2 of them, they'd be able to stumble into something that resembles an NFL
receiver, but combined they have less than 280 yards. Is there something in our scheme or something
in Case that is inhibiting them? Floyd
has had multiple years hovering around 1000 yds, so it’s not like he’s
completely worthless. I would hope that
any FA X receiver we bring in would at least be able to get at least 500 yards.
But even with the "limited opportunities behind Diggs/Thielen", long-overlooked Jarius Wright ultimately produced better than those highly-touted former #1 picks. I know Wright has different skills, and someone is bound to throw out a plug about Treadwell's amazing blocking value, but didn't Treadwell get at least 2 starts when Diggs was hurt?
I think the Vikings have lusted after this idea of the "X receiver" so long, dreaming of someone who fits a physical prototype, and yet they get the most from other receivers. I hope the next OC declares Jarius the #3 until someone takes the job through better play, not draft expectation.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
and what are the odds that Teddy wants to stay as a back up, or that Smith would come here if he has to compete with Teddy? They both want to be the #1 and both are likely not wanting to share snaps as Teddy needs all he can get to shake the rust off and any FA QB would want all they could get in a new system. I think Teddy will draw interest from a few teams that would have more attractive paths to the #1 spot than battling Smith in Minny. I wish we really knew how ready Teddy was to return. I can over look that little glimpse we saw against the bengals, just over amped, but just how ready is he to have guys flying around that knee?
I agree - if we trade for Alex Smith (an idea I really like), I think the other 3 veteran QBs would all leave, or try to. Maybe one of them will be disappointed by the free agent offers and stay here as Smith's backup. But Bridgewater is too young to sit behind Smith for 4 years. If his knee is healthy (yes, huge IF), I think another team will sign him and offer a chance to compete. He would love to play in Miami, and they might have an open competition.
Smith makes so much sense for all the reasons FSU and others cited, and because his age (about to turn 34) means he would not be a Favre-esque all-in one year shot (which would be the case with Brees). Smith could QB this team for the next 5 years. I'm just wondering about his contract status...spotrac says there is an option out before the 2018 season, so can he opt out or is it the team's option?
@Geoff Nichols...I'd prefer him over Murray if I had to choose who to pay equal dollar amounts to. He probably will have the opportunity to get a larger role. But in Jet's mind if the Vikings move on from Murray is that a big enough role? Its all subjective.
In a vacuum I'd probably agree. But considering Cook is coming back, I'd rather pair him with Murray than Jet.
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