Like I said above, I'm beyond skeptical as a rule...and I run to straight data as much as I can, to avoid bias.
The "genocidal" Israelis, while brutish on Gaza, have been providing most of the necessities on their dime...knowing that there would be inevitable rockets, raid, suicide bombings, etc, from those ranks.
The Egyptians and Jordanians don't want more refugees, partially because NOBODY wan't Iran's rabid puppets in their borders. This is a rare point agreed on by just about everyone.
Hamas took over the political "leadership" of Palestine (which should itself, frankly, be in quotes...but that's a whole different thing) 15 years ago. Whether one blames the terrorist organization that has been open in its genocidal goals towards Israel (Roger Waters strangely doesn't mention this), or the civilians that end up housing and providing resources, human shields, and PR puppetry for them...that's a complex question.
Whatever the case, those screaming about "genocidal" Israel need to look up the history of quotes from Hamas, and ask themselves whether they'd want that within their borders.
I can promise you this: whether during my time in Washington State or in New Mexico, if either Vancouver or Juarez had been sending missles and mortars over the border into Bellingham/El Paso...we'd be the 55-ish States of America right now.
What I really have a hard time coming off is if Hamas ( and other radical Islamic terror cells ) intent on killing Jews were to lay down their arms today, Israel would likely do the same and there would be peace for the Palestinians and they would have Gaza as their own, however if Israel were to not take arms against their aggressor there wouldnt be any Israel left or Jews alive. One side has shown time and again that they have no desire to life peacefully, and its not Israel IMO.
Quote: @"Zanary" said:
Like I said above, I'm beyond skeptical as a rule...and I run to straight data as much as I can, to avoid bias.
The "genocidal" Israelis, while brutish on Gaza, have been providing most of the necessities on their dime...knowing that there would be inevitable rockets, raid, suicide bombings, etc, from those ranks.
The Egyptians and Jordanians don't want more refugees, partially because NOBODY wan't Iran's rabid puppets in their borders. This is a rare point agreed on by just about everyone.
Hamas took over the political "leadership" of Palestine (which should itself, frankly, be in quotes...but that's a whole different thing) 15 years ago. Whether one blames the terrorist organization that has been open in its genocidal goals towards Israel (Roger Waters strangely doesn't mention this), or the civilians that end up housing and providing resources, human shields, and PR puppetry for them...that's a complex question.
Whatever the case, those screaming about "genocidal" Israel need to look up the history of quotes from Hamas, and ask themselves whether they'd want that within their borders.
I can promise you this: whether during my time in Washington State or in New Mexico, if either Vancouver or Juarez had been sending missles and mortars over the border into Bellingham/El Paso...we'd be the 55-ish States of America right now.
No consideration for the innocent people who are dying in this. The majority of rational people who are calling for a cease fire give ZERO FUCKS about HAMAS and would love them wiped from the face of the earth. Israel has been supportive for the people of Palestine no doubt, unfortunate there is a cancer in that population. You don't destroy the body when you have a cancer inside, you have to be surgical not blasting them with bombs at a higher rate than the US did vs ISIS (7 to 1).
The people dying shouldn't be punished for this. They have no say with Hamas, they have no say with Israel, they did not start this war.
Just because HAMAS is nothing but assholes, there is no reason for Israel to be one as well. They can't be this fucking stupid, unless they are interested in always have a war to wage, an enemy to have.
Keeps people in power, keeps Bibi around.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
What I really have a hard time coming off is if Hamas ( and other radical Islamic terror cells ) intent on killing Jews were to lay down their arms today, Israel would likely do the same and there would be peace for the Palestinians and they would have Gaza as their own, however if Israel were to not take arms against their aggressor there wouldnt be any Israel left or Jews alive. One side has shown time and again that they have no desire to life peacefully, and its not Israel IMO.
Agreed but it's not that simple because you have 3 parties here. Israel - Hamas - Palestine
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"Zanary" said:
Like I said above, I'm beyond skeptical as a rule...and I run to straight data as much as I can, to avoid bias.
The "genocidal" Israelis, while brutish on Gaza, have been providing most of the necessities on their dime...knowing that there would be inevitable rockets, raid, suicide bombings, etc, from those ranks.
The Egyptians and Jordanians don't want more refugees, partially because NOBODY wan't Iran's rabid puppets in their borders. This is a rare point agreed on by just about everyone.
Hamas took over the political "leadership" of Palestine (which should itself, frankly, be in quotes...but that's a whole different thing) 15 years ago. Whether one blames the terrorist organization that has been open in its genocidal goals towards Israel (Roger Waters strangely doesn't mention this), or the civilians that end up housing and providing resources, human shields, and PR puppetry for them...that's a complex question.
Whatever the case, those screaming about "genocidal" Israel need to look up the history of quotes from Hamas, and ask themselves whether they'd want that within their borders.
I can promise you this: whether during my time in Washington State or in New Mexico, if either Vancouver or Juarez had been sending missles and mortars over the border into Bellingham/El Paso...we'd be the 55-ish States of America right now.
No consideration for the innocent people who are dying in this. The majority of rational people who are calling for a cease fire give ZERO FUCKS about HAMAS and would love them wiped from the face of the earth. Israel has been supportive for the people of Palestine no doubt, unfortunate there is a cancer in that population. You don't destroy the body when you have a cancer inside, you have to be surgical not blasting them with bombs at a higher rate than the US did vs ISIS (7 to 1).
The people dying shouldn't be punished for this. They have no say with Hamas, they have no say with Israel, they did not start this war.
Just because HAMAS is nothing but assholes, there is no reason for Israel to be one as well. They can't be this fucking stupid, unless they are interested in always have a war to wage, an enemy to have.
Keeps people in power, keeps Bibi around.
Israel lost a lot more civilians by population percentage than the US did in 9/11. I didn't notice a lot of calls for restraint after that attack. Frankly, I think Israel has been looking for an excuse to finally take out Hamas. Much like the Palestinians (non Hamas), their population is tired of living with the specter of war and attacks and are tired of it. I also think they are secretly hoping that Iran and it's other proxies join the fray. That gives them an excuse to to take out at bare minimum the Iranian nuclear facilities. Iran has become a pariah in the Middle East. That's why the Abraham Accords made sense and should have been expanded. You have a lot of Countries that have signed peace agreements with Israel including Saudi, Egypt, Sudan, UAE, Morocco...it just keeps isolating Iran.
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
What I really have a hard time coming off is if Hamas ( and other radical Islamic terror cells ) intent on killing Jews were to lay down their arms today, Israel would likely do the same and there would be peace for the Palestinians and they would have Gaza as their own, however if Israel were to not take arms against their aggressor there wouldnt be any Israel left or Jews alive. One side has shown time and again that they have no desire to life peacefully, and its not Israel IMO.
Agreed but it's not that simple because you have 3 parties here. Israel - Hamas - Palestine
I understand, which is why I would prefer to see the Islamic community in that region step up and clean Hamas out of Gaza themselves, but I think they are likely hoping this thing blows up in Israel's face so they will be justified in ridding the region of the Jews. Not to mention China and Russia would love nothing more than to get the US into yet another conflict ( either militarily or financially ) so they can step up their fuckery, and if outside nations get involved, I am betting the US will pull the trigger themselves... pun intended.
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
No consideration for the innocent people who are dying in this. The majority of rational people who are calling for a cease fire give ZERO FUCKS about HAMAS and would love them wiped from the face of the earth. Israel has been supportive for the people of Palestine no doubt, unfortunate there is a cancer in that population. You don't destroy the body when you have a cancer inside, you have to be surgical not blasting them with bombs at a higher rate than the US did vs ISIS (7 to 1).
The people dying shouldn't be punished for this. They have no say with Hamas, they have no say with Israel, they did not start this war.
Just because HAMAS is nothing but assholes, there is no reason for Israel to be one as well. They can't be this fucking stupid, unless they are interested in always have a war to wage, an enemy to have.
Keeps people in power, keeps Bibi around.
Oh, take a breath, sparkles. If you want to make this vicious, personal, and unfounded as f**k...you'd have "terrorist support" among your potential labels.
Quit being a blamey-bitch.
I have no use for Bibi, and his attempts to secure unchallengeable power are things I've compared with putin elsewhere. For that matter, maybe even on this site from years back, I've stated for years how much I hate double-bladed bullshit PR blade that swings through Gaza. They're stuck between an Israel that will-barely-support them, but keeps them under brutal control...and the various Iran-backed groups that are keeping constant rockets, mortars, and raids going on between larger, more horrific examples (like October 7th).
Funny, you never hear Roger, nor the "ISRAEL IS GENOCIDAL" liars talk about the sheer amount of ordinance that comes in from Gaza, Syria, and Lebanon. Huh!
Certain types hate to have a narrative interrupted by annoying old facts.
I don't pretend to have the solution. I don't want any innocent civilian hurt or killed, but would happily send Hamas and Hezbollah-and Bibi-to Hell for a quarter. I will say, however, that completely separating the Palestinians IS fucking stupid, naive, and utterly contrary to reality. If they were so against Hamas, that tunnel network, the weapons in the houses and hospitals, etc would NOT be possible.
I'd love a solution, really...one that keeps a genuinely genocidal Hamas from ever striking again, and in the bargain, something that allows Gaza real freedom. I don't have it.
Quote: @"Zanary" said:
@"Skodin" said:
No consideration for the innocent people who are dying in this. The majority of rational people who are calling for a cease fire give ZERO FUCKS about HAMAS and would love them wiped from the face of the earth. Israel has been supportive for the people of Palestine no doubt, unfortunate there is a cancer in that population. You don't destroy the body when you have a cancer inside, you have to be surgical not blasting them with bombs at a higher rate than the US did vs ISIS (7 to 1).
The people dying shouldn't be punished for this. They have no say with Hamas, they have no say with Israel, they did not start this war.
Just because HAMAS is nothing but assholes, there is no reason for Israel to be one as well. They can't be this fucking stupid, unless they are interested in always have a war to wage, an enemy to have.
Keeps people in power, keeps Bibi around.
Oh, take a breath, sparkles. If you want to make this vicious, personal, and unfounded as f**k...you'd have "terrorist support" among your potential labels.
Quit being a blamey-bitch.
I have no use for Bibi, and his attempts to secure unchallengeable power are things I've compared with putin elsewhere. For that matter, maybe even on this site from years back, I've stated for years how much I hate double-bladed bullshit PR blade that swings through Gaza. They're stuck between an Israel that will-barely-support them, but keeps them under brutal control...and the various Iran-backed groups that are keeping constant rockets, mortars, and raids going on between larger, more horrific examples (like October 7th).
Funny, you never hear Roger, nor the "ISRAEL IS GENOCIDAL" liars talk about the sheer amount of ordinance that comes in from Gaza, Syria, and Lebanon. Huh!
Certain types hate to have a narrative interrupted by annoying old facts.
I don't pretend to have the solution. I don't want any innocent civilian hurt or killed, but would happily send Hamas and Hezbollah-and Bibi-to Hell for a quarter. I will say, however, that completely separating the Palestinians IS fucking stupid, naive, and utterly contrary to reality. If they were so against Hamas, that tunnel network, the weapons in the houses and hospitals, etc would NOT be possible.
I'd love a solution, really...one that keeps a genuinely genocidal Hamas from ever striking again, and in the bargain, something that allows Gaza real freedom. I don't have it.
easy now boys, we arent the ones at war here.
Quote: @"Zanary" said:
@"Skodin" said:
No consideration for the innocent people who are dying in this. The majority of rational people who are calling for a cease fire give ZERO FUCKS about HAMAS and would love them wiped from the face of the earth. Israel has been supportive for the people of Palestine no doubt, unfortunate there is a cancer in that population. You don't destroy the body when you have a cancer inside, you have to be surgical not blasting them with bombs at a higher rate than the US did vs ISIS (7 to 1).
The people dying shouldn't be punished for this. They have no say with Hamas, they have no say with Israel, they did not start this war.
Just because HAMAS is nothing but assholes, there is no reason for Israel to be one as well. They can't be this fucking stupid, unless they are interested in always have a war to wage, an enemy to have.
Keeps people in power, keeps Bibi around.
Oh, take a breath, sparkles. If you want to make this vicious, personal, and unfounded as f**k...you'd have "terrorist support" among your potential labels.
Quit being a blamey-bitch.
I have no use for Bibi, and his attempts to secure unchallengeable power are things I've compared with putin elsewhere. For that matter, maybe even on this site from years back, I've stated for years how much I hate double-bladed bullshit PR blade that swings through Gaza. They're stuck between an Israel that will-barely-support them, but keeps them under brutal control...and the various Iran-backed groups that are keeping constant rockets, mortars, and raids going on between larger, more horrific examples (like October 7th).
Funny, you never hear Roger, nor the "ISRAEL IS GENOCIDAL" liars talk about the sheer amount of ordinance that comes in from Gaza, Syria, and Lebanon. Huh!
Certain types hate to have a narrative interrupted by annoying old facts.
I don't pretend to have the solution. I don't want any innocent civilian hurt or killed, but would happily send Hamas and Hezbollah-and Bibi-to Hell for a quarter. I will say, however, that completely separating the Palestinians IS fucking stupid, naive, and utterly contrary to reality. If they were so against Hamas, that tunnel network, the weapons in the houses and hospitals, etc would NOT be possible.
I'd love a solution, really...one that keeps a genuinely genocidal Hamas from ever striking again, and in the bargain, something that allows Gaza real freedom. I don't have it.
Dude take it easy. Where was I attacking you? I responded to the fact that your post was all about Hamas which no one sane person is defending.
The focus is trying to keep the topic on the innocent people here, the ones having their lives destroyed today, tomorrow, the day after that. Isn't that the whole point of the "cease fire" conversation? You aren't ending Hamas, and there is no simple solution, there is no complex solution here.
What power do you think the children and senior community of Palestine have? The Arab world treats them like pawns, they have to live in an open air prison, supported by their religious enemy. There is zero consideration of being in their position in this dialogue. It is a nightmare of a situation here.
Wishing for the Arab community to step up to throw out Hamas is never going to happen while Israel continues this offensive destroys the lives of innocent Arabs.
We learned nothing from the wars of 2003 until of late. You are not beating this ideology. There is no war to win. Engaging in it beyond being measured just makes it worse. Just accept it.
"being a blamey-bitch", man grow up
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