Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ purplefaithful said:
On Monday, Keith Sanchez of The Draft Network released his latest mock draft, in which he helped the Vikings out by having them select Minnesota Gophers center, John Michael Schmitz.
“John Michael Schmitz was one of the biggest risers after the Senior Bowl and the Vikings desperately need a versatile interior offensive lineman to upgrade that position. The Vikings need to add an element of toughness to their offense to be able to impose their will running the football. Schmitz should help them do both things.”
While not a splashy pick, this would definitely fill a need for the Vikings and give them stability at the center position for the next decade or more. Schmitz has incredible strength and is a technician with his hands and footwork. He should thrive wherever he is picked.
It’s also noteworthy that Schmitz’s agent is former Vikings offensive lineman Jeremiah Sirles.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-draft-network-sends-gophers-center-to-the-vikings-in-latest-mock-draft/ar-AA17JuSD?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=1fe72b95dabe481e9a4eed67b9e99f6f
I would really hate that pick. I will bet that the history of first round centers is bleak to awful. I wonder if anyone would like this pick if the player had not played his college ball in Minnesota. Nothing against Schmitz; I saw him at the Senior Bowl practices. He's very good. But he's a Center. Hard pass for me.
He's got a lot in common with Bradbury. Both outside zone centers, identical in size, reach blocking specialists. But this is what I call the "green grass" period, where every draft pick and everyone else's free agents are better than the ones we've already got.
To me there are some pretty easy decisions to make on the roster, but Bradbury isn't one of them. This one's all about the money. I don't want to spend a ton of money on him and I absolutely don't want to commit to him long-term. But the LAST thing we need is a downgrade at the position, which is pretty easy to do if we're not careful.
Not exactly identical in size. Schmitz outweighs Brabury by 20 lbs and an inch taller.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
Agree.
To me, it boils down to this: are we more likely to improve the IOL by returning Bradbury or replacing him with a rookie or a veteran? Good question. But I think it's reasonable to say we would maybe be a little more likely to improve it by returning Bradbury, given his trajectory and the continuity factor.
A good foil here is Ethan Pocic. HIs first three years in the league he was worse than Bradbury. No joke, he was that bad. His contract expires and he gets a 1-year, vet min prove-it deal in Cleveland to be Nick Harris's backup. Harris gets hurt and Pocic has a great year. So....did he improve that much? Or did the fact that he was now playing between two All Pro guards play a part? I don't know, but whoever signs him will probably want the answer to that.
All draft picks, no matter how sexy they might seem, are rolls of the dice. And to increase our chances of improvement, we almost have to take one in the 1st round, which seems incredibly unlikely. The free agent class is, well, Pocic, Bradbury and McGovern, with very little difference between the three in terms of talent or projected contract.
There's no good or obvious answer to this. Maybe we can talk Jason Kelce out of retiring and dropping his salary in half.
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Almost every mock draft I have seen has the Vikings taking a corner and it's just because people think we are losing Patrick Peterson and combine that with the fact we are picking in that sweet spot where a lot of corners are projected to go. I think you have to hope Flores is able to develop these young guys we've invested in in Dantzler, Evans, and Booth. We need at least two of them to step up and become solid starters for us next season. In the last nine years we have taken four 1st round corners and invested several other early round picks at the position (2nd through 4th round). It's time to sink or swim with what we have, especially when we have so many other needs. These guys staying healthy and a change in scheme is perhaps all that's needed at that position..
Booth should factor in with Dantzler, and unless my eyes deceive me, the best corner on the roster might be Akayleb Evans. So while you can never have too many corners, I see DL and LB as bigger needs.
A guy like OLB Nolan Smith from Georgia might be just the ticket.
Makes me wonder if the team will bring back Z Smith. If not, then this pick almost has to be an OLB/edge like Nolan Smith. But same with Kendricks. If he's not back, then ILB probably moves up the hierarchy of needs.
I wonder if Z has told the team that he wants to be released & that's the reason that he's put his house on the market.
They may have told him they're trying to find a trade, or will release him. Of course the house for sale kinda wrecks the trade market. Maybe he feels slighted. All speculation, none of us knows.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
It shouldn't be scary if the contract isn't fully guaranteed, that is the key. If its fully guaranteed then you can't get out if he ages/play deteriorates. If its only partially guaranteed then you're really talking about 2 more years 23/24 where you can't move on.
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