Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
But but but Hillary!! Deep state!!! Derp derp derp!!!! LOLOLOLOL
But Trump Russian derp derp!!! Orange Man bad. Get your pussy hats ready we've got melting snowflakes!! See its easy you hurl insults
SFVike, why spend five minutes of your life insulting the very folks you're trying to interact with? What good does it do? It completely undermines your entire argument when you go directly to insults instead of something of substance.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Kingbash
Your article is from the Washington post. They are a well know for their left of center reporting. With that said what are we to do with the last paragraph of your article? Even if we take the article entirely at face value it says this right at the end:
Mueller’s report described 10 significant episodes of possible
obstruction of justice, but said that due to long-standing Justice
Department policy that says a sitting president cannot be indicted, and
because of Justice Department practice regarding fairness toward those
under investigation, his team did not reach a conclusion about whether
the president had committed a crime.
So which is it? Do you want to trash the reporting because you don't like the potential politics of the source, or side with the article because they said things you like? Can't have it both ways. As for the final sentence, I think it says what's necessary. Read it again. I have no opinion one way or the other, I'm assuming that's the conclusion Mueller reached. So, that's that.
Your article also says Mueller agrees about no collusion which is what this thread was about (notice the title):
Mueller stated that it does not exonerate him. You guys like to leave that part out. You know what that means? He very well could have obstructed justice, but there wasn't enough to establish a case.
This is why Barr is so dangerous. He went out and set a public mindset, and you're just repeating hook, line, and sinker. But... that's why Trump put him there.
In that call, Mueller said he was concerned that media coverage of the
obstruction investigation was misguided and creating public
misunderstandings about the office’s work, according to Justice
Department officials. Mueller did not express similar concerns about the
public discussion of the investigation of Russia’s election
interference, the officials said.
Just so we're clear, we're in agreement that there was no Trump/Russian collusion right?
No. It's damning. What we're clear on is that Mueller found there wasn't enough there to move forward from a legal perspective. They found more smoke than what's been shoved in our faces for 2.5 years, but never any fire damning enough.
My interpretation is this: Trump isn't against the United States, nor is he pro-Russia. He's pro-Trump. And he has a long history with them. Two things. 1) He's too stupid to realize that Russia has been playing him all along to get their way. So no, he doesn't even know he's conspiring with them, but they're good at getting what they want from him. 2) Those in his campaign and on his campaign committee actively were working with them. You know, the ones who were found guilty in a court of law, for starters. Shall I provide links to those irrefutable facts?
Assuming we agree on collusion, go back to the first quote on obstruction. Lets say Trump is guilty as sin on all 10 potential obstruction bullet points from the Mueller report. If the DOJ policy is still to not prosecute a sitting president are we supposed to change the policy to fit your feelings? Should we impeach him so you get the even further religious right Mike Pence? Should we throw both Trump and Pence out and let Nancy be president? Or is it better to just redo the election? Whats your end game here? What would make you and the left happy?
I agree, the policy is to not indict a sitting president. Of course, that's supported whole-heatedly by the guy Trump put in charge.
My end game is for people - mostly the voters - to stop being so incredibly full of shit. We're giving up everything that was left of our political system for fucking Donald Trump? Are you kidding me?
We're stuck with this mentally-ill liar for another year+, but I hope somehow he's voted out and all his ass-kissers are forced to go back to being quiet and letting adults make decisions. We've moved the needle on reality because of this guy. Hopefully Russia's attempts to meddle this time aren't successful again, although I suspect even if Russia stays away, he'll win the electoral college fair and square because we're that embarrassing of a country. (And the Democrats will fuck this up horribly.)
Kingbash,
So after all this back and forth the only thing you really want is for there to be an election in 2020 and that those that participate in said election agree with you and not those "other guys"??
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Kingbash,
So after all this back and forth the only thing you really want is for there to be an election in 2020 and that those that participate in said election agree with you and not those "other guys"??
The way you've interpreted that, you should really be the Attorney General.
This is why SFVike responded the way he did. Talking to you guys is seriously maddening. That's why it's easy to resort to be a total and complete dick. Earlier in the thread I compared Trump apologists to anti-vaxxers and flat earthers. I STILL think they're all in the same category when it comes to mental gymnastics and lack of reality. So yeah, by default, I think of you guys as complete boobs simply because there's no other explanation for this absolute lunacy you're displaying.
Here's what you're missing AGR - no collusion? They lacked the hard evidence to bring that charge at a criminal level. Because some people destroyed evidence, some refused to testify, and some lied.
Here's what we know as fact from the Mueller report:
1) Russia was engaged in assisting Trump's campaign efforts and wanted him to win
2) Trump's campaign team had reached out to the Russians and several were in contact with them
3) Trump's campaign staff was also contacted by Russians, and not only did they NOT alert law enforcement, they welcomed Russian assistance
4) Trump and his campaign repeatedly denied and lied about having any knowledge of these activities
5) Trump lied about the US intelligence agencies all agreeing Russians hacked the DNC and had an agressive attack via social media and spreading mis-information to help Trump
6) Trump has done NOTHING TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE ELECTIONS AND SAFEGUARD OUR COUNTRY FROM FUTURE ATTACKS, WHEN HE SWORE AN OATH ON THE CONSTITUTION TO DO SO. INSTEAD HE HAS LIFTED SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS AND PRAISED PUTIN REPEATEDLY, WHILE BLASTING AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES
7) Trump has repeatedly tried to shut down the Mueller investigation, told his people to fire Comey to end it, told his White House counsel McGahn to fire Mueller, then asked these people to LIE and deny it when interviewed by Mueller
8) Several attempts at obstruction of justice were thwarted by his own staff who refused to carry out his orders to commit crimes on his behalf.
If you hire a hitman to kill your wife but he doesn't do it, does that make you innocent?
Our democracy is under attack by a hostile nation that is proven to be aiding our own President, and Republicans don't give a shit because they've become so tribal and partisan they refuse to be objective about the disaster of the Trump administration and its continuing efforts to lie, mislead, and obstruct to bury the truth.
So Republicans are cool with Russians meddling in our elections, that now its ok to ask for and accept Russians help, and we should just cheer them on and not even attempt to put sanctions on them or tell them to fuck off?
What happened to all those flag waving patriots? Oh I forgot they only care about patriotism when some black NFL players take a knee during the anthem.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Our democracy is under attack by a hostile nation that is proven to be aiding our own President, and Republicans don't give a shit because they've become so tribal and partisan they refuse to be objective about the disaster of the Trump administration and its continuing efforts to lie, mislead, and obstruct to bury the truth.
So Republicans are cool with Russians meddling in our elections and we should just cheer them on and not even attempt to put sanctions on them or tell them to fuck off?
What happened to all those flag waving patriots? Oh I forgot they only care about patriotism when some black NFL players take a knee during the anthem.
MSNBC earlier cut away from Lindsay Graham speaking to literally refute what he was saying. Brian Williams commenting something about "never doing this, but we must set the record straight" that Graham was literally lying about what the report said. It's scary: Republicans are lying point blank to us and half the country only sees that so they believe it (like most of the posters in this thread).
I love what I just saw: the media doing it's job and calling these fucking Republicans out and their horseshit lies. It's time to call this out more and more and more.
MSNBC is not media. They are propagandist for the left. Just like Fox new is for the right. If you're watching MSNBC to get your news its no wonder your panties are in such a bunch over Trump.
Here's one of my new favorites. LOL. Can't wait till they kick MSNBC and FOX and all the other propagandists off the various platforms just like they did with Alex Jones for his BS.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
MSNBC is not media. They are propagandist for the left. Just like Fox new is for the right. If you're watching MSNBC to get your news its no wonder your panties are in such a bunch over Trump.
Here's one of my new favorites. LOL. Can't wait till they kick MSNBC and FOX and all the other propagandists off the various platforms just like they did with Alex Jones for his BS.
They are media, but they're extremely left. I'll grant you that. However, I don't: what I saw, I saw on Twitter. It was a clip. However, in that clip, the correct thing was done. Calling out a Trump apologist's lies.
Look, I'm sorry I'm proving to be right so often that you have to resort to "that's a left news site" and "but Hillary..." as per usual. Doesn't change the fact that Trump and Russia are fucking us. But go ahead... keep deflecting. It's all you guys have had for the past 2.5 years.
Quote: It's all you guys have had for the past 2.5 years.
...to be fair, that's all that gets done defending any of our liars-in-chief by their respective fan clubs.
The "scandal free" Obama administration is such a stack of bullshit by the truly blind/pathetic that it's unbelievable.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ AGRforever said:
MSNBC is not media. They are propagandist for the left. Just like Fox new is for the right. If you're watching MSNBC to get your news its no wonder your panties are in such a bunch over Trump.
Here's one of my new favorites. LOL. Can't wait till they kick MSNBC and FOX and all the other propagandists off the various platforms just like they did with Alex Jones for his BS.
They are media, but they're extremely left. I'll grant you that. However, I don't: what I saw, I saw on Twitter. It was a clip. However, in that clip, the correct thing was done. Calling out a Trump apologist's lies.
Look, I'm sorry I'm proving to be right so often that you have to resort to "that's a left news site" and "but Hillary..." as per usual. Doesn't change the fact that Trump and Russia are fucking us. But go ahead... keep deflecting. It's all you guys have had for the past 2.5 years.
So are you saying that I can go grab a clip from Tucker Carlson or Rush Limbaugh that directly says what you're saying about Trump is bullshit and then spend 15 pages call all you "orange man bad" leftists stupid?
If you went back into my post history you'd see that I correctly pointed
out several weeks ago that democrats had stopped using the words
collusion and had switched their attack to obstruction. They did this
because they knew even before the Mueller report was out that there
wasn't collusion.
I'm not deflecting anything here. I'm asking honest questions as to what you're trying to accomplish? Even Pelosi has said they wont be impeaching Trump. So at best what you're after is an election in 2020 where your team wins right?
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