Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB.
over and above existing money against the cap, how much new money do you see him wanting from Minny at the terms you laid out?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
I’m in the camp (the island?) that if Mccarthy is there at 11, run to the podium. The idea we could draft Verse or Murphy at 11 and somehow jump back into the first (with what?) to get Mccarthy seems like a pipe dream. I just don’t think he’ll be there late enough that it won’t cost us next year’s first to get him. And at that point is it worth it to not just take him at 11. Hell depending how the combine and process unfolds we might have to trade UP for him. I’d be good with that too.
As to your note on Kirk— I’ve been saying it and getting ignored for months. There’s a lot of reasons and frankly evidence to indicate Kirk isn’t going to sign a contract to be a (handsomely paid) bridge QB. If another team will guarantee him 2+ years, why would he?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?
Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?
Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.
As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.
Quote: @comet52 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?
Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?
Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.
As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.
It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...
Some of my own thoughts:
There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters
Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show
All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB.
If this is the case and Kirk is trying to make it difficult (i.e. stick it to us) and force our hand...see ya!! I'd rather go 4-13 next season with Minshew at QB and a rookie sitting behind him than get bent over a barrel by Cousins and his agent again coming off an achillies tear. Like I said, let some other team take that risk and the guarantees that accompany it..
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB.
If this is the case and Kirk is trying to make it difficult (i.e. stick it to us) and force our hand...see ya!! I'd rather go 4-13 next season with Minshew at QB and a rookie sitting behind him than get bent over a barrel by Cousins and his agent again coming off an achillies tear. Like I said, let some other team take that risk and the guarantees that accompany it..
IMO any QB we take this year should be ready to take the reins no later than mid 25 season, if not we likely made the wrong pick. I like the 1 year or so of watching and learning, but after 2 full camps if they arent ready to take their lumps, they likely never will be, with that said, the coach needs to find opportunities along the way for them to get a taste of the game so the dont completely sit out of football action for 2 years.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ comet52 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?
Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?
Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.
As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.
It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...
Some of my own thoughts:
There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters
Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show
All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.
I don't think anyone knows what Cousins will be looking for. They don't even start talking for another few weeks.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ comet52 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?
Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?
Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.
As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.
It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...
Some of my own thoughts:
There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters
Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show
All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.
A lot will come down to who is interested and how his market shapes up. If in the end its hot and some ready to win teams like the Falcons, Steelers, etc. want to go for it over the next 2-3 years I don't really see how they are going to find a contract structure that works for MN. Comet said it well, Kirk doesn't want to be a bridge QB, he is looking to compete and win. So the Vikings can't really have it both ways. In other terms its where you are either competitive or rebuilding and aren't undergoing a competitive rebuild.
Leaves MN in a real funny spot either needing to keep the pedal down on competing now or trading up for a high-end rookie QB who can play immediately.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ comet52 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/175...00653?s=20
Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection.
One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.
I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?
Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?
Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.
As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.
It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...
Some of my own thoughts:
There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters
Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show
All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.
A lot will come down to who is interested and how his market shapes up. If in the end its hot and some ready to win teams like the Falcons, Steelers, etc. want to go for it over the next 2-3 years I don't really see how they are going to find a contract structure that works for MN. Comet said it well, Kirk doesn't want to be a bridge QB, he is looking to compete and win. So the Vikings can't really have it both ways. In other terms its where you are either competitive or rebuilding and aren't undergoing a competitive rebuild.
Leaves MN in a real funny spot either needing to keep the pedal down on competing now or trading up for a high-end rookie QB who can play immediately.
What about the Minshew bridge qb strategy to fire-up the fans @ USB stadium this fall?
When you say high-end rookie, I assume you mean Caleb, Daniels or Maye? And are any or all of them ready to really start in September?
|
