Quote: @savannahskol said:
@ KingBash said:
EDIT: And now we're learning Barr won't even release the report, but he'll just summarize it. Wonderful.
Typical corrupt Republicans. How can anybody justify this?
oh geez. that's easy.
You know grand jury testimony is secret, right?
now why would that be?
a grand jury proceeding is for the prosecution (mueller, et al) only, to determine if there is testimony that could lead to indictment... and then go to court before a judge.
witnesses do not have their attorneys present... therefore no defense, crossexamination, rebuttals, etc.
so it would be very unfair for grand jury testimony to be shared openly.
that has been a HALLMARK of our legal system, for ages. you know, the
whole 'innocent before proven guilty thingy'. and the 'right to trial thingy'.
As a matter of fact, it would have been a FELONY for AG Barr to have just handed the mueller report over to the press, without redacting sensitive witness testimony that would harm the witness.
google grand jury rules 6e.
The Democrats KNOW that the full report can't be released... so THIS is their new plan of attack. IF the report was released, it would still have to be heavily redacted. You know what the Democrats would say then? They'd say that the real crimes were redacted out of it. And if the full report was released? They'd say that Mueller was compromised and kept out the "real" crimes. NOTHING will change, because the goal here is not to protect America. It is to take down a political enemy. Both sides do it... but the Democrats have the media on their side, so there's no one to hold them in check when they cross the line from "aggressive" to "assinine".
People who accuse Republicans of being corrupt (some are, I'm sure) have never lived in Chicago. the corruption there is so open, it's ridiculous. Latest example: Smollet case.
Bottom line: there is NOTHING that will satisfy the Democrats. So why bother trying? Remember this sign? They didn't know who it was they were going to oppose... but they were determined to oppose them!
![[Image: Gorsuch-SCOTUS-protest-fill-in-the-blank.jpg]](http://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/Gorsuch-SCOTUS-protest-fill-in-the-blank.jpg)
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ KingBash said:
@ medaille said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
I know, I can't understand what you don't see??
What you don't realize is you guys just re-elected trump. Every single rally he does from now on he can talk about the witch hunt and anything new that comes up he'll be given a pass on.
You guys lost 2020 over the weekend.
If you think the independent voters who voted against Hillary more than they voted for Trump are coming back for another 4 years of Trump you're insane.
If you think the disgruntled Democrats who didn't vote at all after Bernie was knocked out in favor of Hillary are going to stay home and not vote again, you're in for a rude awakening.
Trump's cult is highly loyal, but his relentless attacks on everything and everyone are driving the independent people away in droves.
How anyone supports this compulsive liar, con man, is beyond bafflibg to me. Trump gets reasonable people to hate liberals, hate Dems, hate the free press, hate our allies, hate veterans & POWs, yet he embraces Russia, N. Korea and the Saudis and their terrorists ...how this happened from memes, social media, conspiracy theories that spread like wildfire and believed will be a case study of American history for centuries to come ... this was the turning point in America. We lost too many reasonable people down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, lies, people who have been brainwashed to cheer on the dismantling of their own healthcare, education and social security to pay for tax cuts to the rich.
The damage that's been done is permanent, you've accepted the media is the enemy of the people and to only believe Trump's Twitter feed, Fox News and rightwing propaganda and there's no pulling some of you back to reality as you prefer the GOP echo chambers.
RIP America 1776-2019
I actually think it’s the exact opposite. I think the democrats have been alienating
their voter base for a while now. The
people who were voting for Bernie very clearly saw that the whole system was
rigged against them in the primaries.
They saw that their vote didn’t matter.
I think the Democratic party has been running a very negative press
strategy, where every opponent they have is called Hitler, a racist, a misogynist,
or a bigot of some kind. People have
very clearly seen the media jump to very anti-republican or anti-Trump conclusions
on 3 very public instances, and then the truth comes out and they were shown as
very biased in their reporting. This
occurred with Kavanaugh, Covington and Smollet.
I think people in general are getting very sick of this attack style of
campaigning, especially when it’s not true.
Continuing on this thought, the Democrats haven't had a notable
constructive policy between Obamacare and the Green New Deal. Pretty much the Democrats strategy has been
divide and conquer with identity politics, where half the people are victims
and the other half are victimizers. I
don’t think most people want to be categorized as perpetual victims and I
definitely don’t think people want to be categorized as victimizers. Trump for all the attacks in his campaigns
balanced it out with positive political promises. He said, the economy sucks, I will fix it for
you. The economy sucks for all of
us. It’s something we can all get
behind. He says he’s working on human
trafficking. Is there anyone that’s
against human trafficking?
The Democrats will not win 2020 on the back of Anti-Trump,
especially as we get shown more and more examples of the media and politicians
making accusations against the right that turn out to be false.
Furthermore, I think the Democrats are splitting into three
groups, both in terms of candidates and in terms of voters. There’s a smaller group of more socialist
minded people that are pulling away from the main party. They are the only ones with a constructive
viewpoint, backing around heavy reform with ideas like the Green New Deal. They are the only ones capturing the energy
of people who want to build a better future, which is a key part of this time
period, but a switch to socialism is a big pill to swallow for a lot of people. The second group is the identity politics
group. They just seem like anti-everyone
and it’s only a matter of time before they drive all their voters away, as you
can very clearly see them shaming a group that is similar to you no matter who
you are. Both of these groups have left
the moderates behind. They no longer
have a party to vote for. They don’t
have any campaign platforms at all.
Trump is closer to a moderate democrat voter than either of the other
two more vocal democratic subgroups.
Just watch any of the "Walk Away" videos on youtube. They capture this dynamic pretty well.
I'm not disagreeing. I think - as a whole - the Democrats have turned into a real joke. What they did to Bernie, yes, was criminal and it doesn't look like they've learned their lesson.
But none of this changes how absolutely terrible this Trump administration is.
EDIT: And now we're learning Barr won't even release the report, but he'll just summarize it. Wonderful.
Typical corrupt Republicans. How can anybody justify this?
There's no justification, but that's how the game is played...as Obama used everything he had to bury the "Fast and Furious" gun-running fiasco while he and the Hildebeast were dealing with Russia directly on uranium (what's collusion compared to that?!!), giving Crimea away, and let's face it...the HIldebeast should have been prosecuted repeatedly and thoroughly for the shameless BS she was pulling. Her dumbass hubby having a meeting on the tarmac with the prosecutor during her investigation was SNL-level stupid.
I've railed against both "main" parties forever, and still will...but one thing I have noticed about Trumplestilskin over these past couple of years: for all his lying, obnoxiousness, and moronic misogyny...his actions are rarely without precedent, much of which can be found in the DNC's playbook. Kinda-maybe-sorta having talked with Russians vs. admittedly misusing classified intel, destroying evidence, and then whining about double standards when pushed on the issue?
...yeah, "typical corrupt Republicans" should be "typically corrupt main party BS"...and I have NO idea why anyone supports either traitorous s**t-pile.
Pretty spot on.
And I see the other responses from other posters, and no: I don't expect them to literally release the report as it is right now. They can't, I understand that.
But Barr is a Trump guy, so we all know he's gonna scrub the stuff he needs to for legal reasons, and anything that'd make Trump look bad as well. It was a waste of time and money from the start.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ Zanary said:
@ KingBash said:
@ medaille said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
I know, I can't understand what you don't see??
What you don't realize is you guys just re-elected trump. Every single rally he does from now on he can talk about the witch hunt and anything new that comes up he'll be given a pass on.
You guys lost 2020 over the weekend.
If you think the independent voters who voted against Hillary more than they voted for Trump are coming back for another 4 years of Trump you're insane.
If you think the disgruntled Democrats who didn't vote at all after Bernie was knocked out in favor of Hillary are going to stay home and not vote again, you're in for a rude awakening.
Trump's cult is highly loyal, but his relentless attacks on everything and everyone are driving the independent people away in droves.
How anyone supports this compulsive liar, con man, is beyond bafflibg to me. Trump gets reasonable people to hate liberals, hate Dems, hate the free press, hate our allies, hate veterans & POWs, yet he embraces Russia, N. Korea and the Saudis and their terrorists ...how this happened from memes, social media, conspiracy theories that spread like wildfire and believed will be a case study of American history for centuries to come ... this was the turning point in America. We lost too many reasonable people down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, lies, people who have been brainwashed to cheer on the dismantling of their own healthcare, education and social security to pay for tax cuts to the rich.
The damage that's been done is permanent, you've accepted the media is the enemy of the people and to only believe Trump's Twitter feed, Fox News and rightwing propaganda and there's no pulling some of you back to reality as you prefer the GOP echo chambers.
RIP America 1776-2019
I actually think it’s the exact opposite. I think the democrats have been alienating
their voter base for a while now. The
people who were voting for Bernie very clearly saw that the whole system was
rigged against them in the primaries.
They saw that their vote didn’t matter.
I think the Democratic party has been running a very negative press
strategy, where every opponent they have is called Hitler, a racist, a misogynist,
or a bigot of some kind. People have
very clearly seen the media jump to very anti-republican or anti-Trump conclusions
on 3 very public instances, and then the truth comes out and they were shown as
very biased in their reporting. This
occurred with Kavanaugh, Covington and Smollet.
I think people in general are getting very sick of this attack style of
campaigning, especially when it’s not true.
Continuing on this thought, the Democrats haven't had a notable
constructive policy between Obamacare and the Green New Deal. Pretty much the Democrats strategy has been
divide and conquer with identity politics, where half the people are victims
and the other half are victimizers. I
don’t think most people want to be categorized as perpetual victims and I
definitely don’t think people want to be categorized as victimizers. Trump for all the attacks in his campaigns
balanced it out with positive political promises. He said, the economy sucks, I will fix it for
you. The economy sucks for all of
us. It’s something we can all get
behind. He says he’s working on human
trafficking. Is there anyone that’s
against human trafficking?
The Democrats will not win 2020 on the back of Anti-Trump,
especially as we get shown more and more examples of the media and politicians
making accusations against the right that turn out to be false.
Furthermore, I think the Democrats are splitting into three
groups, both in terms of candidates and in terms of voters. There’s a smaller group of more socialist
minded people that are pulling away from the main party. They are the only ones with a constructive
viewpoint, backing around heavy reform with ideas like the Green New Deal. They are the only ones capturing the energy
of people who want to build a better future, which is a key part of this time
period, but a switch to socialism is a big pill to swallow for a lot of people. The second group is the identity politics
group. They just seem like anti-everyone
and it’s only a matter of time before they drive all their voters away, as you
can very clearly see them shaming a group that is similar to you no matter who
you are. Both of these groups have left
the moderates behind. They no longer
have a party to vote for. They don’t
have any campaign platforms at all.
Trump is closer to a moderate democrat voter than either of the other
two more vocal democratic subgroups.
Just watch any of the "Walk Away" videos on youtube. They capture this dynamic pretty well.
I'm not disagreeing. I think - as a whole - the Democrats have turned into a real joke. What they did to Bernie, yes, was criminal and it doesn't look like they've learned their lesson.
But none of this changes how absolutely terrible this Trump administration is.
EDIT: And now we're learning Barr won't even release the report, but he'll just summarize it. Wonderful.
Typical corrupt Republicans. How can anybody justify this?
There's no justification, but that's how the game is played...as Obama used everything he had to bury the "Fast and Furious" gun-running fiasco while he and the Hildebeast were dealing with Russia directly on uranium (what's collusion compared to that?!!), giving Crimea away, and let's face it...the HIldebeast should have been prosecuted repeatedly and thoroughly for the shameless BS she was pulling. Her dumbass hubby having a meeting on the tarmac with the prosecutor during her investigation was SNL-level stupid.
I've railed against both "main" parties forever, and still will...but one thing I have noticed about Trumplestilskin over these past couple of years: for all his lying, obnoxiousness, and moronic misogyny...his actions are rarely without precedent, much of which can be found in the DNC's playbook. Kinda-maybe-sorta having talked with Russians vs. admittedly misusing classified intel, destroying evidence, and then whining about double standards when pushed on the issue?
...yeah, "typical corrupt Republicans" should be "typically corrupt main party BS"...and I have NO idea why anyone supports either traitorous s**t-pile.
Pretty spot on.
And I see the other responses from other posters, and no: I don't expect them to literally release the report as it is right now. They can't, I understand that.
But Barr is a Trump guy, so we all know he's gonna scrub the stuff he needs to for legal reasons, and anything that'd make Trump look bad as well. It was a waste of time and money from the start.
yall are only saying it was a waste since it didnt side with the opinion you had already crafted in your mind. yall were all for it for two plus years and now the change ofheart?
Quote: @AGRforever
Pretty spot on.
And I see the other responses from other posters, and no: I don't expect them to literally release the report as it is right now. They can't, I understand that.
But Barr is a Trump guy, so we all know he's gonna scrub the stuff he needs to for legal reasons, and anything that'd make Trump look bad as well. It was a waste of time and money from the start.
yall are only saying it was a waste since it didnt side with the opinion you had already crafted in your mind. yall were all for it for two plus years and now the change ofheart?
Not at all. Russia attacked us, period. That is a fact. They were determined to help Trump win, that is also fact. Trump lied about his knowledge and involvement with Russia. He sided with Putin's word over our own US intelligence agencies, that is also a fact. He had 2 Chiefs of Staff, both military generals, resign, one who admitted he quit because of his pro-Russian stances. All publicly known facts.
The smoking gun of did Trump coordinate all this with Russia couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But sweet Jesus that doesn't change the facts of Trump lying about meeting Russians, of Trump Jr. accepting an invitation to get dirt on an opponent from a hostile nation, and Trump's campaign manager meeting with a Russian to give polling information to.
I realize you boys are taking a vixtory lap because your Trump appointed lapdog AG says he reviewed 700 pages of a report in 48 hours and found no evidence, but not all of us fell off the turnip truck yesterday.
Regardless of lack of charges doesn't mean Trump wasn't doing some extremely shady, unethical shit that if the Democrats had done, you'd all be losing your minds right now and you all fucking know it.
But hey, let's have a cheer for Betsy Devos cutting funds for the Special Olympics because we needed to prioritize the millionaires getting tax cuts to make America great again. Yipeee!
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever
Pretty spot on.
And I see the other responses from other posters, and no: I don't expect them to literally release the report as it is right now. They can't, I understand that.
But Barr is a Trump guy, so we all know he's gonna scrub the stuff he needs to for legal reasons, and anything that'd make Trump look bad as well. It was a waste of time and money from the start.
yall are only saying it was a waste since it didnt side with the opinion you had already crafted in your mind. yall were all for it for two plus years and now the change ofheart?
Not at all. Russia attacked us, period. That is a fact. They were determined to help Trump win, that is also fact. Trump lied about his knowledge and involvement with Russia. He sided with Putin's word over our own US intelligence agencies, that is also a fact. He had 2 Chiefs of Staff, both military generals, resign, one who admitted he quit because of his pro-Russian stances. All publicly known facts.
The smoking gun of did Trump coordinate all this with Russia couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But sweet Jesus that doesn't change the facts of Trump lying about meeting Russians, of Trump Jr. accepting an invitation to get dirt on an opponent from a hostile nation, and Trump's campaign manager meeting with a Russian to give polling information to.
I realize you boys are taking a vixtory lap because your Trump appointed lapdog AG says he reviewed 700 pages of a report in 48 hours and found no evidence, but not all of us fell off the turnip truck yesterday.
Regardless of lack of charges doesn't mean Trump wasn't doing some extremely shady, unethical shit that if the Democrats had done, you'd all be losing your minds right now and you all fucking know it.
But hey, let's have a cheer for Betsy Devos cutting funds for the Special Olympics because we needed to prioritize the millionaires getting tax cuts to make America great again. Yipeee!
A post loaded with facts, but you won't change a single mind. The Trump-voter brain needs to be studied. Rather than admit any of this, they'll resort to "Yeah but Obama/Hillary..." stuff and just move along supporting a stable genuis because he has an R next to his name.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever
Pretty spot on.
And I see the other responses from other posters, and no: I don't expect them to literally release the report as it is right now. They can't, I understand that.
But Barr is a Trump guy, so we all know he's gonna scrub the stuff he needs to for legal reasons, and anything that'd make Trump look bad as well. It was a waste of time and money from the start.
yall are only saying it was a waste since it didnt side with the opinion you had already crafted in your mind. yall were all for it for two plus years and now the change ofheart?
Not at all. Russia attacked us, period. That is a fact. They were determined to help Trump win, that is also fact. Trump lied about his knowledge and involvement with Russia. He sided with Putin's word over our own US intelligence agencies, that is also a fact. He had 2 Chiefs of Staff, both military generals, resign, one who admitted he quit because of his pro-Russian stances. All publicly known facts.
The smoking gun of did Trump coordinate all this with Russia couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But sweet Jesus that doesn't change the facts of Trump lying about meeting Russians, of Trump Jr. accepting an invitation to get dirt on an opponent from a hostile nation, and Trump's campaign manager meeting with a Russian to give polling information to.
I realize you boys are taking a vixtory lap because your Trump appointed lapdog AG says he reviewed 700 pages of a report in 48 hours and found no evidence, but not all of us fell off the turnip truck yesterday.
Regardless of lack of charges doesn't mean Trump wasn't doing some extremely shady, unethical shit that if the Democrats had done, you'd all be losing your minds right now and you all fucking know it.
But hey, let's have a cheer for Betsy Devos cutting funds for the Special Olympics because we needed to prioritize the millionaires getting tax cuts to make America great again. Yipeee!
A post loaded with facts, but you won't change a single mind. The Trump-voter brain needs to be studied. Rather than admit any of this, they'll resort to "Yeah but Obama/Hillary..." stuff and just move along supporting a stable genuis because he has an R next to his name.
If they were really facts, SF could've posted links (even to the HuffPo). He got those facts from somewhere; let's see where. Here I am: change my mind.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever
Pretty spot on.
And I see the other responses from other posters, and no: I don't expect them to literally release the report as it is right now. They can't, I understand that.
But Barr is a Trump guy, so we all know he's gonna scrub the stuff he needs to for legal reasons, and anything that'd make Trump look bad as well. It was a waste of time and money from the start.
yall are only saying it was a waste since it didnt side with the opinion you had already crafted in your mind. yall were all for it for two plus years and now the change ofheart?
Not at all. Russia attacked us, period. That is a fact. They were determined to help Trump win, that is also fact. Trump lied about his knowledge and involvement with Russia. He sided with Putin's word over our own US intelligence agencies, that is also a fact. He had 2 Chiefs of Staff, both military generals, resign, one who admitted he quit because of his pro-Russian stances. All publicly known facts.
The smoking gun of did Trump coordinate all this with Russia couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But sweet Jesus that doesn't change the facts of Trump lying about meeting Russians, of Trump Jr. accepting an invitation to get dirt on an opponent from a hostile nation, and Trump's campaign manager meeting with a Russian to give polling information to.
I realize you boys are taking a vixtory lap because your Trump appointed lapdog AG says he reviewed 700 pages of a report in 48 hours and found no evidence, but not all of us fell off the turnip truck yesterday.
Regardless of lack of charges doesn't mean Trump wasn't doing some extremely shady, unethical shit that if the Democrats had done, you'd all be losing your minds right now and you all fucking know it.
But hey, let's have a cheer for Betsy Devos cutting funds for the Special Olympics because we needed to prioritize the millionaires getting tax cuts to make America great again. Yipeee!
A post loaded with facts, but you won't change a single mind. The Trump-voter brain needs to be studied. Rather than admit any of this, they'll resort to "Yeah but Obama/Hillary..." stuff and just move along supporting a stable genuis because he has an R next to his name.
If they were really facts, SF could've posted links (even to the HuffPo). He got those facts from somewhere; let's see where. Here I am: change my mind.
Hahaha you're just wrong. What's not factual in that?!
This is scary that so much of the country is doing this.
How many of the "conspiracy theory" news blurbs from Right Media regarding these Russian Collusion accusations being bullshit were just lucky, coincidental guesses?
Republicans and the Right have been de-platformed in this country to the point of all of their talking points being yanked as "conspiracy." Who wants to go weed through alt-right media to see when and where they were right about this story? I'm sure they were right somewhere; funny it's taboo to read any of it...
its clear to me that half the country think the other half is delusional and all we’re going to here is argue which side we’re on.
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