Dave Te Thomas compares him to Champ Bailey, hardly a nickel/dime returner...
Quote: @Poiple said:
It seems the only thing Rick and Zim like more than defense is to be smarter than everyone else. Kind of stunned they would actually do it.
They already have the number #1 D and they scored ZERO regular season points. The turnover rate was terrible also.
Points win games. Tackles arent points. Interceptions arent points. Sacks arent points. Third down stops arent points.
POINTS ARE POINTS.
Smgdmfh....
I know this was a huge secret and all, and it was easy to miss...but the Vikings did get the single-most-pursued QB in free agency this year, a guy that's thrown 25+ TDs in each of the last 3 seasons.
TDs, or touchdowns, are awarded in POINTS. Said QB will be throwing to Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph, among others.
I think that the "POINTS" issue has, indeed, gotten a smidgen of attention.
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ ATXVIKE said:
Come on we've drafted 5 dbs in the 1st or 2nd rd since 2011...when is this group done being built....otoh just 2 Ol since then in 1st and 3rd rds. FUCK this reasoning...start building a decent OL!!!!!! 3 yrs in a row it's been a shit show on the OL. even last yr had dismal display. I rarely get upset about the draft. But we need OL help like 4 yrs ago. We had calls to trade back and geez we got a day 1 starting K returner....remember Cordarrel he could actually play a starting role day 1 beside K returner! Oh BTW the kid has issues and is short and slow! Great!
This is disingenuous. While the Vikings only added a 1st and 3rd high draft pick lineman they also added 3 high priced free agents in Boone, Remmers, and Reiff.
You cannot say they have not tried to upgrade the line since 2011 without mentioning free agents.
It is unfortunate that they missed out on Beavers and Clemmings both of whom were 4th round picks.
The Packers selected Sitton and Lang in the 4th round. The Panthers got Trai Turner after the Vikings took Clemmings. The Patriots got Shaw Mason in the 4th round.
If the Vikings would have done better with those 4th round picks then maybe things would be different now.
all very good points. Yet here we are... a stronger D, a weaker O and a team that struggles to put points on the board and a front office that doesnt seem to see a problem.
It is telling to hear Rick and Zimmer talk about how it all unfolded so perfectly that they got their guy. The fact that he is their guy (when he wasnt anyone elses) says pretty much all that needs to be said. They didnt say they had their eyes on on some of the O lineman but there just werent any. No, it unfolded the way that they wanted and its disappointing to see that they dont have the O line as a priority as they do a nickle or dime back.
Sure there is plenty of draft left. Maybe they get lucky and find a later round guy. They have missed often enough with first and second round guys.
You are spinning this to fit your agenda. Rick and Zim said that they took the best guy on their board AT THAT POINT IN THE DRAFT. Go back and listen to Rick's PC. He DID NOT say the draft unfolded perfectly for them to get Hughes, or any other player for that matter.
And how do you know he wasn't anybody else's guy?? You have absolutely no way of knowing that.
Again, they took the guy they had rated highest on THEIR DRAFT BOARD. What the hell else do you want them to do?? He may not have been your highest rated guy at that point, or my highest rated guy at that point, or the man and the moon's highest rated guy at that point, but he was theirs, and when you're running an NFL football team you have to believe in your scouting department and your coaches on staff evaluating and then coaching up the talent drafted.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ FSUVike said:
And this question is for everyone. Why should they reach in the first when the consensus is that there's serious value in the 2nd and 3rd and the guys they really liked in round one were already gone?
My answer is that I think Hughes himself was a reach. - He is likely to play a part-time role or provide depth. Is depth and #3 CB important? Sure - but I think you can find nickelback/returners in later rounds. In round 1, I want someone with a shot to be a full-time starter. There were players like that still available.
- He has physical limitations: average size, average speed. Could he still be an NFL player? Yes, but those are reasons players go in later rounds. Round 1 is where you get players with something that's eye-popping, like, "Wow, he give us deep speed that might change an opponents' plans". There were players with impressive size and/or speed still available.
- His background isn't impressive. Legal problems, kicked out of UNC, junior college, one year at UCF. Again, there are NFL players with worse bios - but there were prospects with far better still available.
Speaking for myself, I didn't have my heart set on OL, but I wanted someone who might excite hope for the future: Maurice Hurst, Justin Reid, Dallas Goedert, DJ Chark, or an OL like James Daniels. Every draft pick is a crapshoot, I know - but I want someone at the top who has a shot at being an every-down star if it all works out. But they picked someone whose ceiling is a combo of Captain Munnerlyn and Marcus Sherels. Whoop-de-do...
Very fair response. I like a lot of the players you mentioned as well. Particularly Reid. Hurst also, but I want to see what JJ does after one season that was basically a redshirt, now getting to see Richardson in action, and getting more coaching from arguably the best D-Line coach in the business.
Going to trust the FO on Hughes. More there than I think you think, if that makes sense
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Norse said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Poiple said:
It isnt the number of O lineman. It is the quality of them. They are a below average group. If the Vikings want to reliably compete they need an above average group.
There is no ignoring or rationalizing that will explain away the fact that Rick and Zimmer neglect the offense for the sake of the defense. If you cant see it, no problem. If your season is made happy by having a number one D and going home empty handed in the playoffs, then good for you. But there is no way you can convince me that a Nickle or Dime CB is needed as much as an offensive lineman on this sub par O line.
The fact that you guys count the number of lineman and say “problem solved” or that you believe a late round pick is the same as a first round pick already rules you out of intelligent discussions.
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
I have yet to see much from Isidora to show he is the answer. Last season with all the injuries was his chance. And he had hardly any playing time. Bottom line is, the offense line is not going to improve signing tier 4 players. How many tier 4 players has Rick signed to the team in the last 3 years? "a lot"
Are there only tier 4 players left in this draft? Cuz it keeps getting described over and over again as very deep. By like everyone.
So if this is a deeper interior lineman draft than last year when they snagged Elf in the 3rd why should they reach in the first?
Seriously. Answer that question instead of responding with generalizations.
And this question is for everyone. Why should they reach in the first when the consensus is that there's serious value in the 2nd and 3rd and the guys they really liked in round one were already gone?
What do you want me to answer?
I said Isidora hasn't showed much so far.
IF your looking for Tiers of OL in the draft. Look at the link below.
https://www.ndtscouting.com/thorn-2018-n...-rankings/
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ ATXVIKE said:
Come on we've drafted 5 dbs in the 1st or 2nd rd since 2011...when is this group done being built....otoh just 2 Ol since then in 1st and 3rd rds. FUCK this reasoning...start building a decent OL!!!!!! 3 yrs in a row it's been a shit show on the OL. even last yr had dismal display. I rarely get upset about the draft. But we need OL help like 4 yrs ago. We had calls to trade back and geez we got a day 1 starting K returner....remember Cordarrel he could actually play a starting role day 1 beside K returner! Oh BTW the kid has issues and is short and slow! Great!
This is disingenuous. While the Vikings only added a 1st and 3rd high draft pick lineman they also added 3 high priced free agents in Boone, Remmers, and Reiff.
You cannot say they have not tried to upgrade the line since 2011 without mentioning free agents.
It is unfortunate that they missed out on Beavers and Clemmings both of whom were 4th round picks.
The Packers selected Sitton and Lang in the 4th round. The Panthers got Trai Turner after the Vikings took Clemmings. The Patriots got Shaw Mason in the 4th round.
If the Vikings would have done better with those 4th round picks then maybe things would be different now.
all very good points. Yet here we are... a stronger D, a weaker O and a team that struggles to put points on the board and a front office that doesnt seem to see a problem.
It is telling to hear Rick and Zimmer talk about how it all unfolded so perfectly that they got their guy. The fact that he is their guy (when he wasnt anyone elses) says pretty much all that needs to be said. They didnt say they had their eyes on on some of the O lineman but there just werent any. No, it unfolded the way that they wanted and its disappointing to see that they dont have the O line as a priority as they do a nickle or dime back.
Sure there is plenty of draft left. Maybe they get lucky and find a later round guy. They have missed often enough with first and second round guys.
I do admit that having them pick mid to late round linemen is not very comforting and the past does not lead people to believe they will be successful.
But you never know what will happen.
The Packers asked Bryan Bulaga to take a pay cut and he refused.
Perhaps he will become a cap casualty?
There will be some surprise cuts which the Vikigns could be an attractive destination.
Of course, we cannot bank on that so I am hoping they get something done tonight.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ FSUVike said:
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
You forgot the "BOOM" at the end...
Boom
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ FSUVike said:
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
You forgot the "BOOM" at the end...
Boom
I'm assuming you are bringing this thread up again to show that you were correct regarding your concerns after last year's draft unfolded? I like Hughes, but quality Corners were available on day 2 if you had to have one. As I've said many times, I wanted Hernandez to help stabilize the interior of our OLine but as you mentioned at the top the page, Zimmer and Ricky think they are smarter than everyone else. Their neglect of the OLine will ultimately cost them their jobs after this year so it really doesn't matter. We are not fixing it this offseason with a weak draft, and their chronic inability to identify, draft, and develop quality OLineman.
I'd take another Hughes/O'Neil draft, in a heart-beat...
Thats not to say the OL hasn't been mis-managed. But somewhere in between the Ponder/Treadwell draft for position picks (careful what you wish for) and what the Vikings have been doing with the OL over the years is a sweet-spot. One that's been alluding Viking Brass for a while.
Could be that we're just in an era where they cant draft OL if their lives depended on it - kinda like Denny and Defense back in that era.
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ FSUVike said:
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
You forgot the "BOOM" at the end...
Boom
April till January the next year?
Thats a sadly long time for thread to get "stuck in the craw"
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