Quote: @Wetlander said:
He did say that... but then he concluded his post with "get the QB you truly believe in and pay him accordingly".
I don't see what is so controversial about that. You're wound so tight about the possibility of the Vikings signing Cousins to a big contract that you are reading into things that aren't there.
i am glad you know what i am thinking. i am hardly wound over the qb issue as i, you, or any of us has no control or input in that situation. and Pumpf and I are good, he doesnt need you to come to his rescue. I was attempting to initiate a conversation on his point as I explained.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ silverjoel said:
There were 7 QBs with a cap hit of $20+ million last year. Throw in Manning and Luck, $19.7 million and $19.4 million respectively. Out of those 9 QBs, 2 made the playoffs (Newton and Ryan). Flacco, Cousins and Manning - no playoffs. Palmer, Tannehill, Rodgers and Luck all were out injured the majority of the year (no playoffs).
Just paying a QB $20+ million does not mean that the team is going to win.
QBs of teams that made the playoffs (QB - $ millions)
Ryan - 23.7
Newton - 20.1
Brees - 19
Roethlisberger - 18.2
Smith - 16.9
Brady - 14
Taylor - 9.7
Mariota - 6.6
Bortles - 6.5
Goff - 6.3
Wentz - 6
Keenum - 1.9
This is misleading. Why? Because Brady, Brees and Ben have already received MULTIPLE contracts in their careers and are to the point that they've made so much they can afford financially and ego-wise to take smaller AAS to help the team stay competitive.
And like half this list is backups and guys on rookies. How often do you think that would be the case in the Playoffs?
Wentz will be the highest paid QB at some point. When Newton is up he'll get another massive deal. It's all fluid.
Now if you told me the salary cap was never going to go up again then we'd be having a much different conversation about paying Cousins over $25k. Let's see how misleading it is (I don't know how it's misleading in the first place).
Playoff QBs - cap $ in millions.
2016
Eli - 24.2
Roethlisberger - 23.9
Ryan - 23.7
Stafford - 22.5
Rodgers - 19.2
Wilson - 18.5
Smith - 17.8
Brady - 13.7
Osweiler - 12
Tannehill - 11.6
Carr - 1.4
Prescott - 0.5
2015
Rodgers - 18.2
Peyton - 17.5
Roethlisberger - 17.2
Smith - 15.6
Brady - 14
Newton - 13
Dalton - 9.6
Palmer - 7.3
Wilson - 7
RG3/Cousins - 6.7/0.7
Hoyer/Mallett - 5.2/0.1
Bridgewater - 1.5
2014
Roethlisberger - 18.9
Peyton - 17.5
Rodgers - 17.5
Stafford - 15.8
Brady - 14.8
Flacco - 14.8
Palmer/Stanton - 13/2.6
Romo - 11.7
Dalton - 9
Wilson - 8
Newton - 7
Luck - 6
2013
Peyton - 17.5
Brees - 17.4
Brady - 13.8
Rivers - 13.7
Rodgers - 12
Smith - 8.5
Newton - 6
Luck - 5
Dalton - 1.4
Kaep - 1.4
Wilson - 0.6
Foles - 0.6
2012
Peyton - 18
Ryan - 13.5
Schuab - 11.7
Smith/Kaep - 9.2/1.1
Rodgers - 8.5
Brady - 8
Flacco - 8
Luck - 4
RG3 - 3.8
Ponder - 2.3
Dalton - 1.1
Wilson - 0.5
I have no issue paying top dollar for a QB... But I have a tough time believing Zim would sign off on a guy who turns the ball over as frequently as Cousins does...add to that like Romo like ability to screw the pooch at absolutely the worst time...and I have to think that's a hard pass for our one eyed jack...
There is a long list of the next great QB. I like cousins and until about 2 years ago he was the but of many jokes. He hasn't won a damn thing or proven he can elevate his team. He does put up big stats but lots of losers do. Does he have to because hi team is behind? Why are they behind? How much is his responsibility and how much is others. Why won't his own team pay hi if he is a legit QB?
There are serious questions, doesn't mean he sucks just things to be leery of. Signing a big money contract for a guy that sucks can cost you big time on missed opportunities with other FA's.
The pay him if you believe in him is true, the question is who believes in him and how much. Jimmy believes in him less than Pumpf, I'm in line with Jimmy's position, pragmantic-maybe overly so, IDK.
The challenge is making sure that you pay franchise QB money to a QB who is actually worthy of franchise QB money. Just like taking Ponder in the first round didn't make him a franchise QB.
Quote: @NodakViking said:
There is a long list of the next great QB. I like cousins and until about 2 years ago he was the but of many jokes. He hasn't won a damn thing or proven he can elevate his team. He does put up big stats but lots of losers do. Does he have to because hi team is behind? Why are they behind? How much is his responsibility and how much is others. Why won't his own team pay hi if he is a legit QB?
There are serious questions, doesn't mean he sucks just things to be leery of. Signing a big money contract for a guy that sucks can cost you big time on missed opportunities with other FA's.
The pay him if you believe in him is true, the question is who believes in him and how much. Jimmy believes in him less than Pumpf, I'm in line with Jimmy's position, pragmantic-maybe overly so, IDK.
I don't know what you mean by he hasn't won anything or elevated his team. His first year as a starter the Skins won their division, and he took that team from a 4 win team to a 9 win team. That's elevating his team by any measure.
The last 2 years it hasn't been sustained. You want to hang that on the QB or do you want to look at the organization that has been mismanaged and dysfunctional since Snyder has owned the franchise? It's no secret that he had no receivers to work with this past year, yet still were middle of the pack in points scored in the NFL. Meanwhile their defense was tied for 28th in pts. allowed per game. So you tell me why they were playing from behind.
Why won't his own team pay him, when they tagged him for 2 years, basically as a prove it deal, and now has a host of GM's willing to pay him fair market starters value? I can only come to the conclusion that it's because the management of the Skins including (Snyder) is a really a bunch of micromanaging scumbags. Jerry Jones Jr. with even less football knowledge.
https://www.gq.com/story/redskin-dan-snyder-fired-gm-new-low
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ NodakViking said:
There is a long list of the next great QB. I like cousins and until about 2 years ago he was the but of many jokes. He hasn't won a damn thing or proven he can elevate his team. He does put up big stats but lots of losers do. Does he have to because hi team is behind? Why are they behind? How much is his responsibility and how much is others. Why won't his own team pay hi if he is a legit QB?
There are serious questions, doesn't mean he sucks just things to be leery of. Signing a big money contract for a guy that sucks can cost you big time on missed opportunities with other FA's.
The pay him if you believe in him is true, the question is who believes in him and how much. Jimmy believes in him less than Pumpf, I'm in line with Jimmy's position, pragmantic-maybe overly so, IDK.
I don't know what you mean by he hasn't won anything or elevated his team. His first year as a starter the Skins won their division, and he took that team from a 4 win team to a 9 win team. That's elevating his team by any measure.
The last 2 years it hasn't been sustained. You want to hang that on the QB or do you want to look at the organization that has been mismanaged and dysfunctional since Snyder has owned the franchise? It's no secret that he had no receivers to work with this past year, yet still were middle of the pack in points scored in the NFL. Meanwhile their defense was tied for 28th in pts. allowed per game. So you tell me why they were playing from behind.
Why won't his own team pay him, when they tagged him for 2 years, basically as a prove it deal, and now has a host of GM's willing to pay him fair market starters value? I can only come to the conclusion that it's because the management of the Skins including (Snyder) is a really a bunch of micromanaging scumbags. Jerry Jones Jr. with even less football knowledge.
https://www.gq.com/story/redskin-dan-snyder-fired-gm-new-low
Actually in 2016 he led them to the go ahead score with 1:05 left in the game putting them up 17-13 over the Lions. The defense proceeded to let Stafford drive the length of the field and get the winning TD.
He led the team down the field in overtime to the Bengals 16 yard line in London only to see the kicker miss the field goal and they game ended up tied.
They finished 8-7-1 in 2016 just missing the playoffs.
They win those two game and they would have been 10-6 and in the playoffs again.
This information is readily available if people want to do the research.
The dude has only started 3 years and should have at least 5 to 8 more years left, maybe more.
No reason to believe he is not going to continue to put up good numbers and get better at protecting the ball.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ pumpf said:
Here's what I know: my family needs a new washing machine. So we have a choice: we can go the "cheap" route... and hope for the best. Or we can pay now... with the expectation that this next one is going to last a while. My father-in-law once told me: you get what you pay for. We're getting the good washing machine.
The Vikings can go "cheap" and hope for the best... or they can get the QB that they truly believe in (whoever that may be) and pay him accordingly.
so you are going with the most expensive option because its the most expensive option? or are you getting a good option at a good price? spending more used to mean getting more, now to often it just means that the advertising worked on you.
Everyone in the industry said that this was the best model available. Some of the stores we contacted said that they wished they could carry this particular brand, because it is so good. But the reason it is so good is that they are made right... and, therefore, are not mass-produced. Hence, you can't get this particular brand at most "big-box" stores. So, to answer your question: we're going with the most expensive option- because it's the best one available. And we figure that- in the long run- it will pay for itself by being reliable and functional.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ pumpf said:
Here's what I know: my family needs a new washing machine. So we have a choice: we can go the "cheap" route... and hope for the best. Or we can pay now... with the expectation that this next one is going to last a while. My father-in-law once told me: you get what you pay for. We're getting the good washing machine.
The Vikings can go "cheap" and hope for the best... or they can get the QB that they truly believe in (whoever that may be) and pay him accordingly.
so you are going with the most expensive option because its the most expensive option? or are you getting a good option at a good price? spending more used to mean getting more, now to often it just means that the advertising worked on you.
Everyone in the industry said that this was the best model available. Some of the stores we contacted said that they wished they could carry this particular brand, because it is so good. But the reason it is so good is that they are made right... and, therefore, are not mass-produced. Hence, you can't get this particular brand at most "big-box" stores. So, to answer your question: we're going with the most expensive option- because it's the best one available. And we figure that- in the long run- it will pay for itself by being reliable and functional.
Speedqueen?
Quote: @Wetlander said:
He did say that... but then he concluded his post with "get the QB you truly believe in and pay him accordingly".
I don't see what is so controversial about that. You're wound so tight about the possibility of the Vikings signing Cousins to a big contract that you are reading into things that aren't there.
Just so you know, Jimmy and I are good. He's the only one around here that I've been able to connect with- in person- and I greatly enjoy our visits. So... I don't take anything Jimmy says "personally". I wish that all of us here could be that way: know each other outside of the board- and treat one another as buddies... not adversaries.
That being said, yes: if Cousins is the best option, we should absolutely pay the man. But that's a big IF.
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