Posts: 3,850
Threads: 3,423
Joined: May 2013
Reputation:
255
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
Quote: @"purplefaithful" said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
Go big or go home. It's time to get swimming.
Quote: @"Wetlander" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
So let's get someone cheap, sign a bunch of FAs and get blown out in the NFCCG again because the Offense can't keep up.
I'm sorry but this Defense isn't EVER going to be in the same class as the Broncos or Ravens Units that carried them to a Super Bowl.
And that starts with Zimmer. He coaches to make you earn every yard and keep you out of the Endzone. He's not coaching to sack you or turn you over on every play. That's too.aggressive and risky for his style.
No matter who gets inked this team will not win it all solely on Defense. But having a Franchise QB and an Offense that can go toe to toe with NO, Philly and NE changes the script.
LBs and DEs can be replaced. Zimmer did it in Dallas and Cincinnati. But the Boys had a Franchise QB and the Bungles did not, hence the vastly different levels of success in the postseason.
If you could look into the future and tell me Teddy will become a Tier 2 QB I'd be all over that as you could keep adding pieces to the Defense to at least make it harder for the Elite Offenses to score.
Too big of a risk for my heart to bear, although I think that will be what happens after the Jets or Broncos throw crazy money at Kirk.
Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
So let's get someone cheap, sign a bunch of FAs and get blown out in the NFCCG again because the Offense can't keep up.
I'm sorry but this Defense isn't EVER going to be in the same class as the Broncos or Ravens Units that carried them to a Super Bowl.
And that starts with Zimmer. He coaches to make you earn every yard and keep you out of the Endzone. He's not coaching to sack you or turn you over on every play. That's too.aggressive and risky for his style.
No matter who gets inked this team will not win it all solely on Defense. But having a Franchise QB and an Offense that can go toe to toe with NO, Philly and NE changes the script.
LBs and DEs can be replaced. Zimmer did it in Dallas and Cincinnati. But the Boys had a Franchise QB and the Bungles did not, hence the vastly different levels of success in the postseason.
If you could look into the future and tell me Teddy will become a Tier 2 QB I'd be all over that as you could keep adding pieces to the Defense to at least make it harder for the Elite Offenses to score.
Too big of a risk for my heart to bear, although I think that will be what happens after the Jets or Broncos throw crazy money at Kirk.
i read a rumor this morning that the bungles might shop andy dalton who has 2 years left at about 17 million per season. I would rather see what they would want than to spend 30 on Cousins.
I know many see his positives, but I dont see any value with him at that kind of money. 22-24 yes. I think its absurd to say that since brees rogers and stafford are getting 30+ that is now the market for a starting QB because they IMO are significantly better QBs game in game out and all game long than cousins has shown. I dont think cousins is the type of qb that really puts a team on his back and carries them and the redskins w/l record kind of bears that out. sure its not all on him, but rogers shoulders a pretty shitty roster every year and is usually an nfc favorite every year. his arm is good enough, he seems to be able to make all the throws, but i question his decision making far to often. lots of QB in the leagues history that throw for a ton of yards but end up having blah careers because they just couldnt play at that level when their team needed them to, or they didnt know when to take the sack or throw it away.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
Quote: @"Wetlander" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
we have heard every FA out there say they would take less to go to a competitor, but how often do they take much of a hit to do so? the number is 30, that is what every projection site is saying for cousins. you bring up 60 million next year, well if you sign a guy this year to a multi year deal at 30 a year, then next year is really only 30 million to spend so kicking the can down the road only helps a little bit. 5-6 million more per year may not sound like much but over a 4 or 5 year contract that is another decent starter at another position for that period, or a damn good back up QB.
as far as term, we arent talking 30 million for 1 year, he will want 4 years minimum and likely 5, with about 4 guaranteed at that 30 average, that is a lot of hurt if he isnt who some think he is. 30 million is for tier 1 guys, like i said in another thread 22-24 I could be convinced, but since the number on the street and in many threads is 30, I am going to not be easily swayed.
as far as in house guys stepping up, you want to risk a season on it? if they werent heavy contributors last year I would be looking for somebody serviceable in FA as back up plan to at least challenge them. How much did we really get out of our reserve OG, DTs, and CBs this last year? I didnt see enough to tab any of them as a lock to start full time. I certainly wouldnt risk a 30 million dollar contract to cousins on it.
There were 7 QBs with a cap hit of $20+ million last year. Throw in Manning and Luck, $19.7 million and $19.4 million respectively. Out of those 9 QBs, 2 made the playoffs (Newton and Ryan). Flacco, Cousins and Manning - no playoffs. Palmer, Tannehill, Rodgers and Luck all were out injured the majority of the year (no playoffs).
Just paying a QB $20+ million does not mean that the team is going to win.
QBs of teams that made the playoffs (QB - $ millions)
Ryan - 23.7
Newton - 20.1
Brees - 19
Roethlisberger - 18.2
Smith - 16.9
Brady - 14
Taylor - 9.7
Mariota - 6.6
Bortles - 6.5
Goff - 6.3
Wentz - 6
Keenum - 1.9
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"FSUVike" said:
So let's get someone cheap, sign a bunch of FAs and get blown out in the NFCCG again because the Offense can't keep up.
I'm sorry but this Defense isn't EVER going to be in the same class as the Broncos or Ravens Units that carried them to a Super Bowl.
And that starts with Zimmer. He coaches to make you earn every yard and keep you out of the Endzone. He's not coaching to sack you or turn you over on every play. That's too.aggressive and risky for his style.
No matter who gets inked this team will not win it all solely on Defense. But having a Franchise QB and an Offense that can go toe to toe with NO, Philly and NE changes the script.
LBs and DEs can be replaced. Zimmer did it in Dallas and Cincinnati. But the Boys had a Franchise QB and the Bungles did not, hence the vastly different levels of success in the postseason.
If you could look into the future and tell me Teddy will become a Tier 2 QB I'd be all over that as you could keep adding pieces to the Defense to at least make it harder for the Elite Offenses to score.
Too big of a risk for my heart to bear, although I think that will be what happens after the Jets or Broncos throw crazy money at Kirk.
i read a rumor this morning that the bungles might shop andy dalton who has 2 years left at about 17 million per season. I would rather see what they would want than to spend 30 on Cousins.
I know many see his positives, but I dont see any value with him at that kind of money. 22-24 yes. I think its absurd to say that since brees rogers and stafford are getting 30+ that is now the market for a starting QB because they IMO are significantly better QBs game in game out and all game long than cousins has shown. I dont think cousins is the type of qb that really puts a team on his back and carries them and the redskins w/l record kind of bears that out. sure its not all on him, but rogers shoulders a pretty shitty roster every year and is usually an nfc favorite every year. his arm is good enough, he seems to be able to make all the throws, but i question his decision making far to often. lots of QB in the leagues history that throw for a ton of yards but end up having blah careers because they just couldnt play at that level when their team needed them to, or they didnt know when to take the sack or throw it away.
Living in Michigan, I see Stafford a lot, and while he has a stronger arm, I see a lot of the same game out of him as I do in Cousins. Both very competitive, with some of the it factor, haven't had great skill players the last year, with the better receivers in Detroit. Both teams had bad defenses and couldn't hold leads and forced QB's to take risks down the stretch leading to turnovers.
|
