Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ MaroonBells said:
they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return. if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO, he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.
I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline.
Why are you sure of that? He was the last WR drafted in round 1, 23rd overall, so... - 22 teams passed him by. OK, maybe they all didn't need WRs, but...
- Other teams who needed WRs (Browns, Redskins, Texans) picked different ones when he was available - Texans got ahead of us to do so, suggesting they thought even we wanted their target (Will Fuller) more than Treadwell.
- Giants and Saints needed WRs and they waited for 2nd-rounders who were better.
Browns had a "big name player taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing" in OL Cameron Erving, who didn't succeed, and they traded him for a 5th-round pick this summer. That's about what Treadwell is worth unless he starts to produce soon.
No, he's worth more than that. Just for the reason that he's only in his 2nd season, and there is still some question about opportunity with the injury last season and the numbers game this season. Cam Erving is a 3rd year player who had every opportunity to show his worth and failed. And they STILL got a 5th round pick for him. That alone should help dial in LT's value, which I'd put in the 3rd round right now. But that won't last.
And I base this opinion on knowledge of the draft and the market, not some kind of belief in Treadwell's talent. Don't forget, I said many times on this board that he was the most overrated player in the 2016 draft.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ MaroonBells said:
they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return. if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO, he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.
I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline.
Why are you sure of that? He was the last WR drafted in round 1, 23rd overall, so... - 22 teams passed him by. OK, maybe they all didn't need WRs, but...
- Other teams who needed WRs (Browns, Redskins, Texans) picked different ones when he was available - Texans got ahead of us to do so, suggesting they thought even we wanted their target (Will Fuller) more than Treadwell.
- Giants and Saints needed WRs and they waited for 2nd-rounders who were better.
Browns had a "big name player taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing" in OL Cameron Erving, who didn't succeed, and they traded him for a 5th-round pick this summer. That's about what Treadwell is worth unless he starts to produce soon.
No, he's worth more than that. Just for the reason that he's only in his 2nd season, and there is still some question about opportunity with the injury last season and the numbers game this season. Cam Erving is a 3rd year player who had every opportunity to show his worth and failed. And they STILL got a 5th round pick for him. That alone should help dial in LT's value, which I'd put in the 3rd round right now. But that won't last.
And I base this opinion on knowledge of the draft and the market, not some kind of belief in Treadwell's talent. Don't forget, I said many times on this board that he was the most overrated player in the 2016 draft.
I did not remember that, but good on you. I think that a lot of NFL people, at the time of the 2016 draft, were also of the belief Treadwell was overrated, and 1-2 years of nonproductivity will just confirm their belief. I hope we do get more if it comes to trading him, but I'm afraid it will be a lower pick or one of those my-disappointing-draft-choice-for-your-disappointing-draft-choice trades.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ AllBS said:
I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell. A couple things surprised me. 1. He was sent deep A LOT. His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple. He's obviously at least the third read on those routes. Maybe 4th. 2. He was asked to block A LOT on his routes. He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball. To my eyes, he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level. He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way. I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route. 2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.
That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR. You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays. I would get whatever you can for him at this point. Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.
so why dont they deactivate Treadwell and play Adams or Coley? Is it because they arent ready and he is? Treadwell hasnt shown much yet and maybe never will, but he has shown more than either of those two in real games against real NFL DBs.
Only because he's the only one of the 3 who's had a chance to play a real game. I have no doubt that Coley would show more in one game than Treadwell has in any game of his entire career. I'm not as high on Adams, but I think Coley has shown some real potential. And to answer your first question, they won't deactivate Treadwell for the same reason he hasn't been cut yet: his draft position. Honestly, I think the team is using Floyd's 4 game suspension as a final audition for Treadwell before moving on from him completely.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ AllBS said:
I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell. A couple things surprised me. 1. He was sent deep A LOT. His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple. He's obviously at least the third read on those routes. Maybe 4th. 2. He was asked to block A LOT on his routes. He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball. To my eyes, he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level. He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way. I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route. 2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.
That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR. You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays. I would get whatever you can for him at this point. Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.
Not to dispute what you say about Treadwell, but what have Adams and Coley shown? Coley flashed a bit in the preseason against 3rd teamers. Adams didn't even flash much against them. So please tell me why Adams and Coley (2 late round picks) are so precious.
Like I mentioned above, I'm not nearly as high on Adams as I am on Coley, but both have shown more in a few preseason games than I've ever seen out of Treadwell, in preseason or the regular reason.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ greediron said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ AllBS said:
I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell. A couple things surprised me. 1. He was sent deep A LOT. His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple. He's obviously at least the third read on those routes. Maybe 4th. 2. He was asked to block A LOT on his routes. He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball. To my eyes, he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level. He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way. I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route. 2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.
That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR. You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays. I would get whatever you can for him at this point. Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.
Not to dispute what you say about Treadwell, but what have Adams and Coley shown? Coley flashed a bit in the preseason against 3rd teamers. Adams didn't even flash much against them. So please tell me why Adams and Coley (2 late round picks) are so precious.
Like I mentioned above, I'm not nearly as high on Adams as I am on Coley, but both have shown more in a few preseason games than I've ever seen out of Treadwell, in preseason or the regular reason.
FICA, they were never running against more than the other teams 2s and 3s, sure they beat who they had to at times, but they werent facing nearly the same competition that Treadwell has faced either.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ AllBS said:
I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell. A couple things surprised me. 1. He was sent deep A LOT. His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple. He's obviously at least the third read on those routes. Maybe 4th. 2. He was asked to block A LOT on his routes. He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball. To my eyes, he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level. He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way. I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route. 2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.
That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR. You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays. I would get whatever you can for him at this point. Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.
so why dont they deactivate Treadwell and play Adams or Coley? Is it because they arent ready and he is? Treadwell hasnt shown much yet and maybe never will, but he has shown more than either of those two in real games against real NFL DBs.
It's because Treadwell is actually better than those 2. He is producing but not flashy. When you have the #2 and #3 ranked WR's the 3rd guy just isn't going to get much action. Just the way it is.
The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright.
A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright.
A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.
It's not optimal, but we currently do have the #2 and #3 receivers in the league...I'd be more disappointed if we were actively trying to get the ball to Treadwell and he was dropping it, not getting open, or running the wrong route...I'm not too concerned, Air Purple seems to be just fine for now...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ StickyBun said:
The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright.
A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.
It's not optimal, but we currently do have the #2 and #3 receivers in the league...I'd be more disappointed if we were actively trying to get the ball to Treadwell and he was dropping it, not getting open, or running the wrong route...I'm not too concerned, Air Purple seems to be just fine for now...
There's no concern on my part because Treadwell is invisible and the offense looks great so far. If he's on the team or not seems to be irrelevant. But there's no denying that, thus far, his input into the offense as a former #1 draft pick is abysmal. It just turns out the team is no worse off for it, which is great. The tough part is to find out what the guy actually does well as a pro? Maybe we'll see more as the year goes on.
It's a much better situation than two years ago. Remember asking the same questions about Cordarelle - but when our "top" WRs were Mike Wallace and Charles Johnson (until Diggs got his chance)? With unproductive WRs ahead of him, no known health issues (and plenty of speed), CP was a much bigger mystery.
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