This is all so brutally sad.
The worst part is that...sorry, folks...so many people (especially young'uns) will believe what they're told/shown, with few or no questions (in this age of Photoshop, I question more than ever), and with the educational priorities having shifted so markedly in the last few decades...yeah, this period has been set up.
Why teach about the Holocaust, when we can explain how math is racist? Yes, that's something in regular, shrieking discussion in Washington state. I have regular thoughts of departing.
What's very darkly fascinating in all of this, almost a sequel/spin-off to the Ukrainian crisis, is how this situation is cannibalizing one of our "main" political treason clubs. Last year, we had the gop biting its own tail over whether to support Ukraine against an oppressive russian invasion (Tucker is great with widespread rape and murder, urged support for putin!)...and now, we have the centrists in the dnc supporting Israel and decrying antisemitism while "The Squad" are trying to keep the cameras on them via passive-aggressive support for murderous filth.
Hmmm..."Elon and X present the Tucker/AOC SHOW!". Seriously, I can see this happening.
Quote: @"purplefaithful" said:
Hamas needs to be dismantled, not sure its entirely possible
I'd love to see Netanyahu ride off into the sunset
Unfortuntately, the people of Gaza are being subject to annihilation and the majority of them I suspect want to live in peace
Its a big humanitarian tragedy, just the latest chapter.
If we're going to call out wrongs and sins, lets all take a moment to acknowledge the Islamaphobia that is rearing its head more now too.
I come from a Christian/Jewish hh and condemn that as well as anti-semitism. Unfortunately both are heavily woven into our society/culture.
The White House has your back PF. Anti-Semitic hate crimes rose by nearly 40% last year and now account for 60% of Hate Crimes in the US...and 1200 Jews slaughtered in Israel including the elderly and children...just for being Jews...so of course, the White House announces the creation of "the country's first National Strategy to Counter Islamophobia". They maybe should have waited just a little on that announcement...just saying.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/vp-harr...-hamas-war
Quote: @"Zanary" said:
This is all so brutally sad.
The worst part is that...sorry, folks...so many people (especially young'uns) will believe what they're told/shown, with few or no questions (in this age of Photoshop, I question more than ever), and with the educational priorities having shifted so markedly in the last few decades...yeah, this period has been set up.
Why teach about the Holocaust, when we can explain how math is racist? Yes, that's something in regular, shrieking discussion in Washington state. I have regular thoughts of departing.
What's very darkly fascinating in all of this, almost a sequel/spin-off to the Ukrainian crisis, is how this situation is cannibalizing one of our "main" political treason clubs. Last year, we had the gop biting its own tail over whether to support Ukraine against an oppressive russian invasion (Tucker is great with widespread rape and murder, urged support for putin!)...and now, we have the centrists in the dnc supporting Israel and decrying antisemitism while "The Squad" are trying to keep the cameras on them via passive-aggressive support for murderous filth.
Hmmm..."Elon and X present the Tucker/AOC SHOW!". Seriously, I can see this happening.
not all GOP are against supporting Ukraine, I listened in on a town hall with our lone house member last night and he had some interesting bits on why funding the war over there is actually a good move for the US. he pointed out that we are essentially sending about 4%,or something like that, of our defense budget to the Ukraine to fight Russia, he pointed out that Russia is shooting off roughly 300-400% more rockets per month than they can produce, so essentially the war in Ukraine is draining down Russia ability to wage ware elsewhere ( which I guess now is a concern in DC??) Pointed out that if Russia were to attack a NATO nation we would be much more heavily involved and at a higher fiscal price. So in Dusty's opinion ( and voting record), it makes good financial sense to continue to fund the Ukrainians against Russia. ( I know this is a cold way to look at it since you have friends over there, but for most Americans that dont have the personal attachment, putting things in dollars and cents is likely a better path to understanding, especially with the general distrust of former soviet countries and their ruling groups. )
Israel needs to put the brakes on NOW. Approaching 10,000 dead with more than half being women, children, elders. This isn't about winning a war, this is about scalps right now.
All they are doing now is inflaming the region and creating new generations of Hamas followers in the Gaza. The Shia Houthis out of Yemen (backed by Iran) are initializing attacks on Israel, bad fucking news. Turkey is looking to turn on Israel at this point.
The US media isn't exactly giving a clear picture of the globe's response to what is happening in Gaza.
What HAMAS did was absolutely disgusting but the Israeli response is exactly what they wanted. Palestinians are chips that Hamas uses to gain more support, enflame the region. Israel should be demanding Qatar put the Hamas leadership on the table NOW and in return stop the destruction of both north and south Gaza.
It's all terribly fucking sad but we have to be smarter than fall into the trap.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Zanary" said:
This is all so brutally sad.
The worst part is that...sorry, folks...so many people (especially young'uns) will believe what they're told/shown, with few or no questions (in this age of Photoshop, I question more than ever), and with the educational priorities having shifted so markedly in the last few decades...yeah, this period has been set up.
Why teach about the Holocaust, when we can explain how math is racist? Yes, that's something in regular, shrieking discussion in Washington state. I have regular thoughts of departing.
What's very darkly fascinating in all of this, almost a sequel/spin-off to the Ukrainian crisis, is how this situation is cannibalizing one of our "main" political treason clubs. Last year, we had the gop biting its own tail over whether to support Ukraine against an oppressive russian invasion (Tucker is great with widespread rape and murder, urged support for putin!)...and now, we have the centrists in the dnc supporting Israel and decrying antisemitism while "The Squad" are trying to keep the cameras on them via passive-aggressive support for murderous filth.
Hmmm..."Elon and X present the Tucker/AOC SHOW!". Seriously, I can see this happening.
not all GOP are against supporting Ukraine, I listened in on a town hall with our lone house member last night and he had some interesting bits on why funding the war over there is actually a good move for the US. he pointed out that we are essentially sending about 4%,or something like that, of our defense budget to the Ukraine to fight Russia, he pointed out that Russia is shooting off roughly 300-400% more rockets per month than they can produce, so essentially the war in Ukraine is draining down Russia ability to wage ware elsewhere ( which I guess now is a concern in DC??) Pointed out that if Russia were to attack a NATO nation we would be much more heavily involved and at a higher fiscal price. So in Dusty's opinion ( and voting record), it makes good financial sense to continue to fund the Ukrainians against Russia. ( I know this is a cold way to look at it since you have friends over there, but for most Americans that dont have the personal attachment, putting things in dollars and cents is likely a better path to understanding, especially with the general distrust of former soviet countries and their ruling groups. )
There's no doubt the upside is that Russia will continue to deplete their military resources through a proxy war with no US lives lost. The rampant corruption that has always existed means Zelensky and crew are likely pocketing large amounts of foreign aid, however. Having done business there, I'm not blaming him. That's the way the political officials have done things for a long time.
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
Israel needs to put the brakes on NOW. Approaching 10,000 dead with more than half being women, children, elders. This isn't about winning a war, this is about scalps right now.
All they are doing now is inflaming the region and creating new generations of Hamas followers in the Gaza. The Shia Houthis out of Yemen (backed by Iran) are initializing attacks on Israel, bad fucking news. Turkey is looking to turn on Israel at this point.
The US media isn't exactly giving a clear picture of the globe's response to what is happening in Gaza.
What HAMAS did was absolutely disgusting but the Israeli response is exactly what they wanted. Palestinians are chips that Hamas uses to gain more support, enflame the region. Israel should be demanding Qatar put the Hamas leadership on the table NOW and in return stop the destruction of both north and south Gaza.
It's all terribly fucking sad but we have to be smarter than fall into the trap.
just curious, where are those numbers and reports coming from? Is this from a legit source, or is this more garbage coming from Hamas sources that the media is running with? I am sure there are civilian casualties, but Israel has been very open about whats coming and when and giving time for civilians to clear out of areas they are intending to hit. ( which I am sure is letting Hamas escape as well.)
on the flip side, if somebody had hit the US, made repeated statements about killing us all.... how would we react to another country telling us, "thats enough revenge" kind of tough to expect Israel to turn it off knowing that if they dont finish this, it will just come back worse.
I am beginning to think the only solution is to take Gaza back, but make it a Palestinian reservation ( Isreali rule, but no Jews allowed to live there, or own property), help those that are left rebuild their homes and infrastructure, but keep them under Israeli rule until a time comes where the people are organized enough to try and establish their own govt and rule once again. Much like the nearly 20% of the Israeli population that is Muslim is just fine in Israel, the Palestinians would likely be better off in the short term living under Israeli rule ( because the world will be watching very closely ) than if Israel were to just pull out and let Hamas regain its footing only to to this all over again in a few years.
Quote: @"badgervike" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Zanary" said:
This is all so brutally sad.
The worst part is that...sorry, folks...so many people (especially young'uns) will believe what they're told/shown, with few or no questions (in this age of Photoshop, I question more than ever), and with the educational priorities having shifted so markedly in the last few decades...yeah, this period has been set up.
Why teach about the Holocaust, when we can explain how math is racist? Yes, that's something in regular, shrieking discussion in Washington state. I have regular thoughts of departing.
What's very darkly fascinating in all of this, almost a sequel/spin-off to the Ukrainian crisis, is how this situation is cannibalizing one of our "main" political treason clubs. Last year, we had the gop biting its own tail over whether to support Ukraine against an oppressive russian invasion (Tucker is great with widespread rape and murder, urged support for putin!)...and now, we have the centrists in the dnc supporting Israel and decrying antisemitism while "The Squad" are trying to keep the cameras on them via passive-aggressive support for murderous filth.
Hmmm..."Elon and X present the Tucker/AOC SHOW!". Seriously, I can see this happening.
not all GOP are against supporting Ukraine, I listened in on a town hall with our lone house member last night and he had some interesting bits on why funding the war over there is actually a good move for the US. he pointed out that we are essentially sending about 4%,or something like that, of our defense budget to the Ukraine to fight Russia, he pointed out that Russia is shooting off roughly 300-400% more rockets per month than they can produce, so essentially the war in Ukraine is draining down Russia ability to wage ware elsewhere ( which I guess now is a concern in DC??) Pointed out that if Russia were to attack a NATO nation we would be much more heavily involved and at a higher fiscal price. So in Dusty's opinion ( and voting record), it makes good financial sense to continue to fund the Ukrainians against Russia. ( I know this is a cold way to look at it since you have friends over there, but for most Americans that dont have the personal attachment, putting things in dollars and cents is likely a better path to understanding, especially with the general distrust of former soviet countries and their ruling groups. )
There's no doubt the upside is that Russia will continue to deplete their military resources through a proxy war with no US lives lost. The rampant corruption that has always existed means Zelensky and crew are likely pocketing large amounts of foreign aid, however. Having done business there, I'm not blaming him. That's the way the political officials have done things for a long time.
I just think hes a fraud and as much as he is skimming, a big part is coming back home to line the pockets of those that are facilitating this ordeal, but if you want to achieve military goals without shedding American blood, its going to come with a price tag, and you know the money trains wont all make it to their intended stations, no different than all the other mega spending the US has done in the last 20 years, so much fraud.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Skodin" said:
Israel needs to put the brakes on NOW. Approaching 10,000 dead with more than half being women, children, elders. This isn't about winning a war, this is about scalps right now.
All they are doing now is inflaming the region and creating new generations of Hamas followers in the Gaza. The Shia Houthis out of Yemen (backed by Iran) are initializing attacks on Israel, bad fucking news. Turkey is looking to turn on Israel at this point.
The US media isn't exactly giving a clear picture of the globe's response to what is happening in Gaza.
What HAMAS did was absolutely disgusting but the Israeli response is exactly what they wanted. Palestinians are chips that Hamas uses to gain more support, enflame the region. Israel should be demanding Qatar put the Hamas leadership on the table NOW and in return stop the destruction of both north and south Gaza.
It's all terribly fucking sad but we have to be smarter than fall into the trap.
just curious, where are those numbers and reports coming from? Is this from a legit source, or is this more garbage coming from Hamas sources that the media is running with? I am sure there are civilian casualties, but Israel has been very open about whats coming and when and giving time for civilians to clear out of areas they are intending to hit. ( which I am sure is letting Hamas escape as well.)
on the flip side, if somebody had hit the US, made repeated statements about killing us all.... how would we react to another country telling us, "thats enough revenge" kind of tough to expect Israel to turn it off knowing that if they dont finish this, it will just come back worse.
I am beginning to think the only solution is to take Gaza back, but make it a Palestinian reservation ( Isreali rule, but no Jews allowed to live there, or own property), help those that are left rebuild their homes and infrastructure, but keep them under Israeli rule until a time comes where the people are organized enough to try and establish their own govt and rule once again. Much like the nearly 20% of the Israeli population that is Muslim is just fine in Israel, the Palestinians would likely be better off in the short term living under Israeli rule ( because the world will be watching very closely ) than if Israel were to just pull out and let Hamas regain its footing only to to this all over again in a few years.
Understandable to have reservations on numbers coming from Hamas but other organizations including Save the Children, the UN, WHO, etc. are supporting these numbers. There are 15,000 plus people every square mile in the Gaza Strip. 42% under the age of 14, 6% over the age of 55. Israel has admitted to bombing over 12,000 thousand targets in the last 3 weeks. The population is over 2 million for an area the size of Washington DC. 10,000 killed could be on the light side by the sheer amount of munitions hitting Gaza right now.
It's most likely ineffective for the cause which is to eliminate Hamas. It's a massacre of innocent people who have been living in an open air prison held capture by their own. It is devastation across Gaza City with children, elderly, pets all lying in the rubble.
How is this helping? It's not, it throwing more fuel on the fire for more Hamas recruits, for more regional instability, for more war. Every bomb stokes the flames for division here as well.
Oh and yes, sending out media via TV and the Web in ENGLISH to people who have no power or internet makes you question which audience was that message for. How are poor Palestinians getting the message? Yes, just move south tomorrow.
How are they going to "finish this"? Jesus, so by destroying the Gaza Strip, you think that will result in the end of Hamas?? This response has created a whole new wave of terrorism supporters and is on the verge of turning into a regional conflict. Radical islamic terrorism is an idea not an army. America has payed dearly in blood and treasure and we learned nothing from this?
It is possible to be a supporter of Israel and Palestinians. If Hamas doesn't act first, things are status quo. But they did and now Israel is pushing beyond a reasonable response, they are moving towards a potential 21st century genocide
Bibi is a clown and he was played. Exactly what the rest of Arab world leadership wanted
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Skodin" said:
Israel needs to put the brakes on NOW. Approaching 10,000 dead with more than half being women, children, elders. This isn't about winning a war, this is about scalps right now.
All they are doing now is inflaming the region and creating new generations of Hamas followers in the Gaza. The Shia Houthis out of Yemen (backed by Iran) are initializing attacks on Israel, bad fucking news. Turkey is looking to turn on Israel at this point.
The US media isn't exactly giving a clear picture of the globe's response to what is happening in Gaza.
What HAMAS did was absolutely disgusting but the Israeli response is exactly what they wanted. Palestinians are chips that Hamas uses to gain more support, enflame the region. Israel should be demanding Qatar put the Hamas leadership on the table NOW and in return stop the destruction of both north and south Gaza.
It's all terribly fucking sad but we have to be smarter than fall into the trap.
just curious, where are those numbers and reports coming from? Is this from a legit source, or is this more garbage coming from Hamas sources that the media is running with? I am sure there are civilian casualties, but Israel has been very open about whats coming and when and giving time for civilians to clear out of areas they are intending to hit. ( which I am sure is letting Hamas escape as well.)
on the flip side, if somebody had hit the US, made repeated statements about killing us all.... how would we react to another country telling us, "thats enough revenge" kind of tough to expect Israel to turn it off knowing that if they dont finish this, it will just come back worse.
I am beginning to think the only solution is to take Gaza back, but make it a Palestinian reservation ( Isreali rule, but no Jews allowed to live there, or own property), help those that are left rebuild their homes and infrastructure, but keep them under Israeli rule until a time comes where the people are organized enough to try and establish their own govt and rule once again. Much like the nearly 20% of the Israeli population that is Muslim is just fine in Israel, the Palestinians would likely be better off in the short term living under Israeli rule ( because the world will be watching very closely ) than if Israel were to just pull out and let Hamas regain its footing only to to this all over again in a few years.
Understandable to have reservations on numbers coming from Hamas but other organizations including Save the Children, the UN, WHO, etc. are supporting these numbers. There are 15,000 plus people every square mile in the Gaza Strip. 42% under the age of 14, 6% over the age of 55. Israel has admitted to bombing over 12,000 thousand targets in the last 3 weeks. The population is over 2 million for an area the size of Washington DC. 10,000 killed could be on the light side by the sheer amount of munitions hitting Gaza right now.
It's most likely ineffective for the cause which is to eliminate Hamas. It's a massacre of innocent people who have been living in an open air prison held capture by their own. It is devastation across Gaza City with children, elderly, pets all lying in the rubble.
How is this helping? It's not, it throwing more fuel on the fire for more Hamas recruits, for more regional instability, for more war. Every bomb stokes the flames for division here as well.
Oh and yes, sending out media via TV and the Web in ENGLISH to people who have no power or internet makes you question which audience was that message for. How are poor Palestinians getting the message? Yes, just move south tomorrow.
How are they going to "finish this"? Jesus, so by destroying the Gaza Strip, you think that will result in the end of Hamas?? This response has created a whole new wave of terrorism supporters and is on the verge of turning into a regional conflict. Radical islamic terrorism is an idea not an army. America has payed dearly in blood and treasure and we learned nothing from this?
It is possible to be a supporter of Israel and Palestinians. If Hamas doesn't act first, things are status quo. But they did and now Israel is pushing beyond a reasonable response, they are moving towards a potential 21st century genocide
Bibi is a clown and he was played. Exactly what the rest of Arab world leadership wanted
I dont know what Israel's plans are, I doubt seriously that they plan on leveling the whole area, nor that the rest of the world would allow them to do so. All I know is that if this happened in the US and another country told us to back down, the overwhelming voice of our nation would be to tell them to fuck off, I would hope that Israel would be more surgical with their strikes, use assassination vs bombing, but I have no idea how effective or practical that would be, I doubt there is ever a quiet time for a special forces unit to do things that would spare the civilians.
as far as how they are getting the message out, I have no idea, loud speakers, word of mouth, leaflets dropped from fly overs? I would certainly hope they are doing more than electronic means, but even then, how many would Hamas allow to leave? That whole area, being a war zone forever, has to be about impossible to wage a surgical type of war in with tunnels and what ever else the enemy has created to be able to wage war with a much superior force.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Skodin" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Skodin" said:
Israel needs to put the brakes on NOW. Approaching 10,000 dead with more than half being women, children, elders. This isn't about winning a war, this is about scalps right now.
All they are doing now is inflaming the region and creating new generations of Hamas followers in the Gaza. The Shia Houthis out of Yemen (backed by Iran) are initializing attacks on Israel, bad fucking news. Turkey is looking to turn on Israel at this point.
The US media isn't exactly giving a clear picture of the globe's response to what is happening in Gaza.
What HAMAS did was absolutely disgusting but the Israeli response is exactly what they wanted. Palestinians are chips that Hamas uses to gain more support, enflame the region. Israel should be demanding Qatar put the Hamas leadership on the table NOW and in return stop the destruction of both north and south Gaza.
It's all terribly fucking sad but we have to be smarter than fall into the trap.
just curious, where are those numbers and reports coming from? Is this from a legit source, or is this more garbage coming from Hamas sources that the media is running with? I am sure there are civilian casualties, but Israel has been very open about whats coming and when and giving time for civilians to clear out of areas they are intending to hit. ( which I am sure is letting Hamas escape as well.)
on the flip side, if somebody had hit the US, made repeated statements about killing us all.... how would we react to another country telling us, "thats enough revenge" kind of tough to expect Israel to turn it off knowing that if they dont finish this, it will just come back worse.
I am beginning to think the only solution is to take Gaza back, but make it a Palestinian reservation ( Isreali rule, but no Jews allowed to live there, or own property), help those that are left rebuild their homes and infrastructure, but keep them under Israeli rule until a time comes where the people are organized enough to try and establish their own govt and rule once again. Much like the nearly 20% of the Israeli population that is Muslim is just fine in Israel, the Palestinians would likely be better off in the short term living under Israeli rule ( because the world will be watching very closely ) than if Israel were to just pull out and let Hamas regain its footing only to to this all over again in a few years.
Understandable to have reservations on numbers coming from Hamas but other organizations including Save the Children, the UN, WHO, etc. are supporting these numbers. There are 15,000 plus people every square mile in the Gaza Strip. 42% under the age of 14, 6% over the age of 55. Israel has admitted to bombing over 12,000 thousand targets in the last 3 weeks. The population is over 2 million for an area the size of Washington DC. 10,000 killed could be on the light side by the sheer amount of munitions hitting Gaza right now.
It's most likely ineffective for the cause which is to eliminate Hamas. It's a massacre of innocent people who have been living in an open air prison held capture by their own. It is devastation across Gaza City with children, elderly, pets all lying in the rubble.
How is this helping? It's not, it throwing more fuel on the fire for more Hamas recruits, for more regional instability, for more war. Every bomb stokes the flames for division here as well.
Oh and yes, sending out media via TV and the Web in ENGLISH to people who have no power or internet makes you question which audience was that message for. How are poor Palestinians getting the message? Yes, just move south tomorrow.
How are they going to "finish this"? Jesus, so by destroying the Gaza Strip, you think that will result in the end of Hamas?? This response has created a whole new wave of terrorism supporters and is on the verge of turning into a regional conflict. Radical islamic terrorism is an idea not an army. America has payed dearly in blood and treasure and we learned nothing from this?
It is possible to be a supporter of Israel and Palestinians. If Hamas doesn't act first, things are status quo. But they did and now Israel is pushing beyond a reasonable response, they are moving towards a potential 21st century genocide
Bibi is a clown and he was played. Exactly what the rest of Arab world leadership wanted
I dont know what Israel's plans are, I doubt seriously that they plan on leveling the whole area, nor that the rest of the world would allow them to do so. All I know is that if this happened in the US and another country told us to back down, the overwhelming voice of our nation would be to tell them to fuck off, I would hope that Israel would be more surgical with their strikes, use assassination vs bombing, but I have no idea how effective or practical that would be, I doubt there is ever a quiet time for a special forces unit to do things that would spare the civilians.
as far as how they are getting the message out, I have no idea, loud speakers, word of mouth, leaflets dropped from fly overs? I would certainly hope they are doing more than electronic means, but even then, how many would Hamas allow to leave? That whole area, being a war zone forever, has to be about impossible to wage a surgical type of war in with tunnels and what ever else the enemy has created to be able to wage war with a much superior force.
But when the US speaks, Israel listens. Bush did it. Regan did it. Biden has not done it (fucking joke). Trump would not do it "#IStandWithBiBi".
It shows how American leaders don't speak for the American people, they are only acting on the interests of in Blinken's own words "MADE IN AMERICA", "strengthening our defense and industrial base", "stay as the ARSENAL of DEMOCRACY".
US business interests > US citizens
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