Quote: @JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Quote: @comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.
If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.
If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.
If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement
From many things I have read Zimmer and Spielman had a really bad relationship which which had an effect on the entire organization. It takes two to tango and I don't believe it was all on Zimmer. Just my take on the situation.
Ya if we could ditch these new guys and get Ricky back we could spend another 15 years not getting to a Super Bowl.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.
If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement
From many things I have read Zimmer and Spielman had a really bad relationship which which had an effect on the entire organization. It takes two to tango and I don't believe it was all on Zimmer. Just my take on the situation.
When you lose but know you have the talent to win as evidenced by last season, then yeah, that's frustrating and nobody likes losing or feeling the heat being on the hot seat. As cantankerous as Zimmer could be its not surprising they werent seeing eye to eye at the end. A GM's job though is to supply the roster with the talent to win football games, and Rick did that pretty consistently over his tenure. The cornerstones of this roster were drafted or acquired by Rick Spielman and we won 13 games last season with the talent he assembled. Somebody wake me when we get a cornerstone roster player brought in by the stat geek .
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ 1VikesFan said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JR44 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.
I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses. Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not. Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level. We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN. You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in. I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected. The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.
Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.
Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role. Show me any kind of personnel experience. Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.
Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ? Seems hypocritical. In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?
The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.
And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one. The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.
So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc. I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't. I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa. I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far
Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.
Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.
If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement
From many things I have read Zimmer and Spielman had a really bad relationship which which had an effect on the entire organization. It takes two to tango and I don't believe it was all on Zimmer. Just my take on the situation.
When you lose but know you have the talent to win as evidenced by last season, then yeah, that's frustrating and nobody likes losing or feeling the heat being on the hot seat. As cantankerous as Zimmer could be its not surprising they werent seeing eye to eye at the end. A GM's job though is to supply the roster with the talent to win football games, and Rick did that pretty consistently over his tenure. The cornerstones of this roster were drafted or acquired by Rick Spielman and we won 13 games last season with the talent he assembled. Somebody wake me when we get a cornerstone roster player brought in by the stat geek .
You can't rate a draft after one season and you sure as hell can't rate a GM after one draft. I understand you loved Spielman and can't stand Kwesi. Let's just agree to disagree and move on already.
|
