Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.
Agree. It will be a tough decision. And a lot depends on how we finish the year. If Cousins continues to grow in this offense and the Vikings have some success in the playoffs, there is little chance they will draft a non-contributing QB late in the 1st round over a player who can help us right away.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.
Agree. It will be a tough decision. And a lot depends on how we finish the year. If Cousins continues to grow in this offense and the Vikings have some success in the playoffs, there is little chance they will draft a non-contributing QB late in the 1st round over a player who can help us right away.
Kirk has us hostage at this point. He is good enough to pay Top 10 QB money (I don't think Top 5 money) and we have already been kicking the can down the road with huge Dead Cap hits forthcoming if we even try to move on from him. His play and salary (hand-in-hand) has us in QB purgatory IMO. We don't seriously look at high end QB's in the draft because Kirk has us by the nads. As you know, I don't think Kirk has it to win us an extended playoff run or SB so this is my view of our current situation and has been the last year+. I was in the other camp before two seasons ago thinking Kirk could get us there with a complete team surround. Now I really don't think he can.
Kirk crippled Spelly with the above tease....great stats/high salary and kick the can down the road. Spelly did not seriously look at any of the first round QB's in years...IMO.
Looks like Kirk will have the same effect on Kwesi because the can has been kicked down to him now.
The two QB's mentioned in jest above - Mahomes and Allen were drafted by teams who were also in limbo like the Chiefs. Playoff team with Alex Smith (coming off a Pro Bowl) and the Chiefs brass has the nads to aggressively move up for their franchise QB. The Bills built a great defense and then had the guts to move up for Allen.
Kirk and his kick-the-can-contract continues to cripple this team if you are in the thought process I am in which is the minority on here. Kwesi would shock the heck out of me if he moved up in the first to get a guy (Levi etc) he had conviction about. We have a veteran front office and Kwesi would have some breathing room to seize the moment but I doubt that will happen.
In the meantime, I am rooting against my gut feeling on Kirk and hoping he can prove me wrong. I am not saying SB or bust for Kirk either but I am saying two very good playoff games from him in a row would put my fear to rest on Kirko.
I am really enjoying this season and watching the new regime work some magic. I think the Jets are probably our strongest remaining game so I want to see how we react to a nice win vs NE.
I like that Chiefs analogy Minny...
KC had already had a pro-bowler at QB and had the nads to trade him and boldly move up...
That took guts, smarts and some lady luck too
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.
Agree. It will be a tough decision. And a lot depends on how we finish the year. If Cousins continues to grow in this offense and the Vikings have some success in the playoffs, there is little chance they will draft a non-contributing QB late in the 1st round over a player who can help us right away.
Kirk has us hostage at this point. He is good enough to pay Top 10 QB money (I don't think Top 5 money) and we have already been kicking the can down the road with huge Dead Cap hits forthcoming if we even try to move on from him. His play and salary (hand-in-hand) has us in QB purgatory IMO. We don't seriously look at high end QB's in the draft because Kirk has us by the nads. As you know, I don't think Kirk has it to win us an extended playoff run or SB so this is my view of our current situation and has been the last year+. I was in the other camp before two seasons ago thinking Kirk could get us there with a complete team surround. Now I really don't think he can.
Kirk crippled Spelly with the above tease....great stats/high salary and kick the can down the road. Spelly did not seriously look at any of the first round QB's in years...IMO.
Looks like Kirk will have the same effect on Kwesi because the can has been kicked down to him now.
The two QB's mentioned in jest above - Mahomes and Allen were drafted by teams who were also in limbo like the Chiefs. Playoff team with Alex Smith (coming off a Pro Bowl) and the Chiefs brass has the nads to aggressively move up for their franchise QB. The Bills built a great defense and then had the guts to move up for Allen.
Kirk and his kick-the-can-contract continues to cripple this team if you are in the thought process I am in which is the minority on here. Kwesi would shock the heck out of me if he moved up in the first to get a guy (Levi etc) he had conviction about. We have a veteran front office and Kwesi would have some breathing room to seize the moment but I doubt that will happen.
In the meantime, I am rooting against my gut feeling on Kirk and hoping he can prove me wrong. I am not saying SB or bust for Kirk either but I am saying two very good playoff games from him in a row would put my fear to rest on Kirko.
I am really enjoying this season and watching the new regime work some magic. I think the Jets are probably our strongest remaining game so I want to see how we react to a nice win vs NE.
Couple things. Though Smith was mostly healthy in KC and played well there, his reputation was as a stop-gap. An injury prone QB who played 16 games just a couple times in his first 10 seasons. What's more, Patrick Mahomes was seen as the ideal fit for the kind of offense Reid wanted to run.
So yeah, if KOC sees a QB in the draft that is a perfect fit for what he wants, by all means, move up, do what it takes to go get him.
We cant discount durability though. Over the decades, we had few seasons where our starting quarterback played every game. We trotted out some real duds. Webb, Freeman, Wynn...
Quote: @wiviking said:
We cant discount durability though. Over the decades, we had few seasons where our starting quarterback played every game. We trotted out some real duds. Webb, Freeman, Wynn...
Yep, you have to consider it all. Contract, fit, what it cost to move up, and are we ready to roll the dice on a young QB that might be Mahomes or Allen, but might also be Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen? And then of course durability. There aren't many QBs in the last 30 years who have been as durable as Cousins.
Hey, if the decisions were easy, we'd all be GMs.
The Lions showed us how to trade up from 32 to 12 so in the next draft we should trade up from 32 to 12 and take our next QB. Are you with me?
Kirk is Kirk. I agree the Vikings should be aggressively looking for a QB in this upcoming draft.
The one argument I'd push back on is when people say, "our record isn't bad enough to get a good QB". That's just not the case. Sure, getting Lawrence or Burrow or whoever is great at the top of the draft but the Vikings have been on the board or within striking distance of plenty of decent (not elite) QBs in recent years.
Off the top of my head- Hurts, Fields went right before us, Lamar Jackson a few years ago, Kenny Pickett, Geno Smith, Mac Jones is okay, Jordan Love if he turns out. Heck, Taylor Heineke was on our roster.
Yes there are plenty of busts I didn't name who we passed on too but that's true at any position. With the exception of Fields these are all guys who were on the clock when we picked. Kirk is better than most of them and basically on par with the best few, but he's been a lot more expensive.
My main point is to say that the Vikings can keep Kirk around for another year or two but even if we draft late in the first round, we'll probably be within reasonable striking-distance of a decent QB. The trick is finding the right guy and pulling the trigger-- something this franchise has been reticent to do for the most part.
Quote: @FLVike said:
The Lions showed us how to trade up from 32 to 12 so in the next draft we should trade up from 32 to 12 and take our next QB. Are you with me?
If'n the right guy is there...and if'n we can find a sucker like the Lions did.
Why do we have to move up for a QB? We just need to be willing to take one when he's there. There are plenty of late first rounders and even later round QBs that do just fine, and honestly a QB on a rookie deal frees up a shitload of cap space to improve many positions on the roster to allow a team to overcome sub Kirk level play.... and not to mention, what we lose in arm talent could be replaced soemwhat with awareness and mobility so its not like you'd have to consider it a major step backwards to the roster to move on from kirk IMO.
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