Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse.
-Brady is gone.
-Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year.
-The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special.
-The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.
-SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.
-Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad.
-The entire NFC South could suck.
Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?
Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB. But we do need to get his cap number down.
I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him. even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term. If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal) I think more fans would be fine with him staying. I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.
( this applies to a few other players as well, we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made, or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO)
This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.
I still think that 35 number is too high, but thats not an debate for now, and it is a crap shoot, we know that we need to be looking QB by 23, but we know that KC and an improved coaching staff would likely do well enough to make sure that we are priced out of the top 7 picks where we would likely need to be to get one of those premium QB prospects for the future. The Vikings have been in this sink hole forever, just good enough to keep the jokes at a minimum, but never good enough to deliver the goods.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse.
-Brady is gone.
-Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year.
-The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special.
-The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.
-SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.
-Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad.
-The entire NFC South could suck.
Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?
Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB. But we do need to get his cap number down.
I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him. even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term. If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal) I think more fans would be fine with him staying. I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.
( this applies to a few other players as well, we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made, or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO)
This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.
I still think that 35 number is too high, but thats not an debate for now, and it is a crap shoot, we know that we need to be looking QB by 23, but we know that KC and an improved coaching staff would likely do well enough to make sure that we are priced out of the top 7 picks where we would likely need to be to get one of those premium QB prospects for the future. The Vikings have been in this sink hole forever, just good enough to keep the jokes at a minimum, but never good enough to deliver the goods.
Yeah, let's not now create a separate thread for what folks think he should be paid haha. What you said after is my concern. We move on and the new regime is just good enough to get us out of the spot needed for the better QB's. It's very rare that top 10 QB's hit Free Agency so I'd like to see Kirk with an open minded HC and a non dumbass OC. If there are still struggles then it's a good indicator of what we need to do next. Too bad this didn't happen before last season like it should have....
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse.
-Brady is gone.
-Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year.
-The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special.
-The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.
-SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.
-Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad.
-The entire NFC South could suck.
Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?
Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB. But we do need to get his cap number down.
I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him. even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term. If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal) I think more fans would be fine with him staying. I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.
( this applies to a few other players as well, we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made, or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO)
This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.
Some thoughts:
Cousins is good but not great. I wish Cousins would take a below-market deal with the Vikings. Some QBs have done that, namely Brady and Brees. Cousins doesn't strike me as that type. (On the one hand, it feels odd to me to insist that a person take less than they could make. On the other, he has made huge money by most standards. Still...)
His cap number is $45M; his salary is $35M. That's a lot, but could he get that as a FA?
The one better QB who may be realistically available is Watson, and he comes with lots of baggage and may not even be allowed to play any time soon.
So unless the Vikings are ready to tank this year, really tank, Cousins may be our best option.
In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy.
Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing...
I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.
I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.
Quote: @Norse said:
In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy.
Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing...
I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.
I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.
the one thing I really cant get behind is to let him play out his last year.. that makes no sense to me. If you want him for 1 year, you wan him for 3, so offer him an extension that works for the team and he either takes it or leaves it. if he is gone after 22 then put him on the market now and get some decent picks for him from some team that is just a QB away, why pay him 35 milllion more for a year that is likely a throw away, and get nothing in return?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Norse said:
In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy.
Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing...
I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.
I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.
the one thing I really cant get behind is to let him play out his last year.. that makes no sense to me. If you want him for 1 year, you wan him for 3, so offer him an extension that works for the team and he either takes it or leaves it. if he is gone after 22 then put him on the market now and get some decent picks for him from some team that is just a QB away, why pay him 35 milllion more for a year that is likely a throw away, and get nothing in return?
I agree with what your your saying. But I Honestly didn’t know if they would just use him for a bridge for a year.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Norse said:
In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy.
Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing...
I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.
I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.
the one thing I really cant get behind is to let him play out his last year.. that makes no sense to me. If you want him for 1 year, you wan him for 3, so offer him an extension that works for the team and he either takes it or leaves it. if he is gone after 22 then put him on the market now and get some decent picks for him from some team that is just a QB away, why pay him 35 milllion more for a year that is likely a throw away, and get nothing in return?
I agree with what your your saying. But I Honestly didn’t know if they would just use him for a bridge for a year.
I think it would be foolish, if he's wanting to be part of the next 3 years, and they want him to be, then both parties should commit to that or just end it now. The thought of paying him as much as they have and not getting anything out of it is part of the game, but to have him continue his career somewhere else and getting nothing in return is foolish. We learned last year that teams are willing to pay premium picks for upper mid tier QB, so if he's not part of the future let's at least use him to improve the future.
I don't know why this thread was started, given the fact the same debate was going on in another. But there is one thing I have noticed. Although I am skeptical regarding Cousin's ability to lead this team to a championship, I am impressed with the new leadership directing this team. If the new GM and head coach feel they can win with Cousins, I am good with that. Although I am not a big Cousins fan, I am excited about the new direction and staff the Vikings have brought in.
Quote: @HappyViking said:
Great numbers for sure, but why are
so many posts showing these stats needed to convince Longshippers that the
Vikings already have a good QB?
I think it's because we all see his flaws
too, and mainly it's in leadership, swagger, and confidence. The things
that don't show up on stat sheets. There's a burning desire to succeed in
QBs like Fran, Staubach, Bradshaw, Favre, Stabler, Brady, Mahomes, and other great winning QBs that seems to be lacking in KC. There's a fire in him missing
or he's just too dorky that’s holding him back from being a leader.
Hell,
Rudy thinks the Giants QB, Daniel Jones, was the best QB he's ever played
with. Do you guys think Jones is better than Cousins? Does anyone
here have a better understanding on how to evaluate those two QBs better than
Rudy? I doubt it.
If KC stays, fine, but if he's
traded away, it's probably because of his personality makeup not found on stat
sheets.
Maybe we should ask him again, now that the Giants cut him....?
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse.
-Brady is gone.
-Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year.
-The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special.
-The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.
-SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.
-Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad.
-The entire NFC South could suck.
Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?
Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB. But we do need to get his cap number down.
I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him. even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term. If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal) I think more fans would be fine with him staying. I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.
( this applies to a few other players as well, we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made, or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO)
This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10. I wish Cousins would take a below-market deal with the Vikings. Some QBs have done that, namely Brady and Brees. Cousins doesn't strike me as that type.
Of course he's not that type. He's 33. I really wish people would stop doing this. It's not the same thing at all. Brady was 37. Brees was 41.
Cousins is in his prime. Whether it's with us or with another team, Cousins next contract will be market value. It would be good for everyone to just get used to that.
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