Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ pattersaur said:
I'm in agreement with @ supafreak84 about Kirk and I do think trading him gives our new coach/GM so much more flexibility to build this team in their own vision. I'd like to see that.
That said, there is no way Washington is shipping out Chase Young in order to bring back Kirk Cousins. Young is the face of their franchise.
I still unfortunately do not buy into this idea that the Vikings are going to get some huge haul for Kirk. Half of our own fans want him gone! Plus, he only has one year left on his deal-- unlike Stafford, Wentz, Darnold, and other recent QBs who were dealt. He's also older than them.
If the Vikings can get a first round pick+ then I will be happy. The fans waffling or outright saying 'no' to hypothetical scenarios involving multiple firsts are in my opinion delusional as to Kirk's value. If he had 3 years left at a good price (like Diggs did) then sure, he'd bring a ransom. But on his current deal? When team's know Merc Kirk can bounce via free agency after just one year? Idk.
Half the fans want him gone because a good amount think QB wins are a stat, or think we should have rolled with Teddy/Case again, or just didn't want him in general because he's a weird dude who didnt win at Washington. That being said, I think if he's traded it's a sign and trade situation where it's a 3-4 year deal and his 2022 cap hit is reduced. I have no idea what we get in return as it all depends on if it's a QB and picks in return, a different position and picks, or just picks. I think there are a lot of different scenarios that could happen so we will see what the outcome is.
no way its a sign and trade deal IMO. IIRC arent those really hard to do in the NFL with the way the prorated parts of the contract ( the signing bonus typically) all get rolled into the current year if the player is traded or cut prior to June 1st. And why would Kirk make it any easier for the Vikings if they are going to flush him anyway, its in his best interest at the point to play hardball, get his 45 million and choosing his own destination to negotiate with.
It is hard to do, but Kirk likes fully guaranteed contracts and this could be another way to get more money guaranteed. If the Vikes have another lackluster season this year then he could see the demand in the FA market being less than what he wants. Purely speculating obviously, but I could see negotiations of an extension playing a factor in a trade
Quote: @pattersaur said:
That said, there is no way Washington is shipping out Chase Young in order to bring back Kirk Cousins. Young is the face of their franchise.
That's why I also threw Hunter into the trade as that's another huge piece we need to make a decision on. Hunter is still only 27 and absolutely elite when healthy, even more then Chase Young. If you are the Redskins (Commandos) you get the quarterback they've needed to compete, an elite 27 year old pass rusher in Hunter (who fits their scheme). The Vikings would get a sky high potential 22 year old in Young, two high draft picks and a ton of cap space to build the roster over the next couple years. I think that's a huge win for both teams. Washington probably would win their division next year and create a Super Bowl window with this trade.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
That said, there is no way Washington is shipping out Chase Young in order to bring back Kirk Cousins. Young is the face of their franchise.
That's why I also threw Hunter into the trade as that's another huge piece we need to make a decision on. Hunter is still only 27 and absolutely elite when healthy, even more then Chase Young. If you are the Redskins (Commandos) you get the quarterback they've needed to compete, an elite 27 year old pass rusher in Hunter (who fits their scheme). The Vikings would get a sky high potential 22 year old in Young, two high draft picks and a ton of cap space to build the roster over the next couple years. I think that's a huge win for both teams. Washington probably would win their division next year and create a Super Bowl window with this trade.
He's played 7 games out of the last 33, and wants to be paid. Young was the #2 overall pick and is still on a rookie deal.
This trade makes zero sense for either party.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent.
Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback.
have you seen anything to support that claim? I saw that on another site, but there was no linked support so I didnt share it here, it claimed that we wants a 40 mill per year average if he is going to play ball with the Vikings on an extension to create cap space this year... again NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was actually said.
If you said, Kirk take $10M less for no reason, he isn't going to do it. So people paint the answer to the question that way. On the extension front he isn't going to make less than his APY now, the market has gone up. Really it doesn't make a ton of sense to end up signing a multi-year extension now. But if the Vikings offered good money you would have to have the discussion. The question is ultimately will he sign a 4-5 year extension vs. 2 years fully guaranteed.
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
That said, there is no way Washington is shipping out Chase Young in order to bring back Kirk Cousins. Young is the face of their franchise.
That's why I also threw Hunter into the trade as that's another huge piece we need to make a decision on. Hunter is still only 27 and absolutely elite when healthy, even more then Chase Young. If you are the Redskins (Commandos) you get the quarterback they've needed to compete, an elite 27 year old pass rusher in Hunter (who fits their scheme). The Vikings would get a sky high potential 22 year old in Young, two high draft picks and a ton of cap space to build the roster over the next couple years. I think that's a huge win for both teams. Washington probably would win their division next year and create a Super Bowl window with this trade.
He's played 7 games out of the last 33, and wants to be paid. Young was the #2 overall pick and is still on a rookie deal.
This trade makes zero sense for either party.
And Young is coming off a sack and a half season in 9 games before tearing his ACL. Young has all the potential in the world but it's just potential at this point. Danielle Hunter is who you hope Chase Young becomes. Plus the Redskins have money to pay both Hunter and Cousins if they wanted, so it actually makes a lot of sense as a hypothetical that could work for both teams.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent.
Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback.
have you seen anything to support that claim? I saw that on another site, but there was no linked support so I didnt share it here, it claimed that we wants a 40 mill per year average if he is going to play ball with the Vikings on an extension to create cap space this year... again NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was actually said.
If you said, Kirk take $10M less for no reason, he isn't going to do it. So people paint the answer to the question that way. On the extension front he isn't going to make less than his APY now, the market has gone up. Really it doesn't make a ton of sense to end up signing a multi-year extension now. But if the Vikings offered good money you would have to have the discussion. The question is ultimately will he sign a 4-5 year extension vs. 2 years fully guaranteed.
Geoff just where are the Vikings at between wanting to get a reasonable extension worked out with Cousins and/or moving him in a trade and getting off that contract, freeing up money to build the roster in the vision of the new GM and coach? Is there a cut off date to get something done before considering other options?
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent.
Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback.
have you seen anything to support that claim? I saw that on another site, but there was no linked support so I didnt share it here, it claimed that we wants a 40 mill per year average if he is going to play ball with the Vikings on an extension to create cap space this year... again NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was actually said.
If you said, Kirk take $10M less for no reason, he isn't going to do it. So people paint the answer to the question that way. On the extension front he isn't going to make less than his APY now, the market has gone up. Really it doesn't make a ton of sense to end up signing a multi-year extension now. But if the Vikings offered good money you would have to have the discussion. The question is ultimately will he sign a 4-5 year extension vs. 2 years fully guaranteed.
Geoff just where are the Vikings at between wanting to get a reasonable extension worked out with Cousins and/or moving him in a trade and getting off that contract, freeing up money to build the roster in the vision of the new GM and coach? Is there a cut off date to get something done before considering other options?
There isn't a formal cut-off date in the form of a roster bonus, guarantee date, etc. But ideally something will be figured out prior to the beginning of free agency in mid-March. They need the cap space to effectively function and get back under the cap. So that is the soft deadline. Of course they could opt to work around the $45M cap hit, which then take all deadlines off the table. But I doubt they will do nothing.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent.
Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback.
have you seen anything to support that claim? I saw that on another site, but there was no linked support so I didnt share it here, it claimed that we wants a 40 mill per year average if he is going to play ball with the Vikings on an extension to create cap space this year... again NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was actually said.
If you said, Kirk take $10M less for no reason, he isn't going to do it. So people paint the answer to the question that way. On the extension front he isn't going to make less than his APY now, the market has gone up. Really it doesn't make a ton of sense to end up signing a multi-year extension now. But if the Vikings offered good money you would have to have the discussion. The question is ultimately will he sign a 4-5 year extension vs. 2 years fully guaranteed.
Geoff just where are the Vikings at between wanting to get a reasonable extension worked out with Cousins and/or moving him in a trade and getting off that contract, freeing up money to build the roster in the vision of the new GM and coach? Is there a cut off date to get something done before considering other options?
There isn't a formal cut-off date in the form of a roster bonus, guarantee date, etc. But ideally something will be figured out prior to the beginning of free agency in mid-March. They need the cap space to effectively function and get back under the cap. So that is the soft deadline. Of course they could opt to work around the $45M cap hit, which then take all deadlines off the table. But I doubt they will do nothing.
That's kind of what I was figuring that they'd try to get something done one way or the other prior to free agency starting. Going to be very interesting to see what decisions will be made, specifically regarding Cousins and Hunter.
What's your best guess regarding those two?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent.
Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback.
have you seen anything to support that claim? I saw that on another site, but there was no linked support so I didnt share it here, it claimed that we wants a 40 mill per year average if he is going to play ball with the Vikings on an extension to create cap space this year... again NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was actually said.
If you said, Kirk take $10M less for no reason, he isn't going to do it. So people paint the answer to the question that way. On the extension front he isn't going to make less than his APY now, the market has gone up. Really it doesn't make a ton of sense to end up signing a multi-year extension now. But if the Vikings offered good money you would have to have the discussion. The question is ultimately will he sign a 4-5 year extension vs. 2 years fully guaranteed.
Considering how much the cap is going to increase, if the Vikings can get a 4-5 year extension signed, that would probably be seen as a bargain in just a couple years.
But I agree with your former comment that it benefits Kirk to sign a shorter deal so he can hit the market when teams are flush with cap room. He's always favored shorter terms anyway.
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