Quote: @"Wetlander" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Any pick in the back 7, and I'm gonna lose my shit.
Yeah, same here... if we take a CB, S, or LB at 14... Spielman better find a good place to hide...
you gotta be happy with Parsons, course he should be long gone
Quote: @"Bullazin" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Any pick in the back 7, and I'm gonna lose my shit.
Yeah, same here... if we take a CB, S, or LB at 14... Spielman better find a good place to hide...
you gotta be happy with Parsons, course he should be long gone
No, I'd hate it... not necessarily the player, but the position he plays.
Quote: @"VikingOracle" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"VikingOracle" said:
@"Hawkvike25" said:
Lastly, Kirk is good enough to win a Super Bowl, just need his team to be.
Kirk is only good enough to win a SB if his salary is low enough to permit the Vikes to build a great team around him. He can't be paid as a top 5 QB, perform like a top 15 QB and expect to win a SB.
If there is a bigger myth in the NFL than this whole notion that paying a QB top dollar prevents you from putting quality players around him, I don't know what it is.
I don't think anyone is saying you can't put quality players around a QB you're paying a lot of money to... but there IS plenty of evidence that you aren't winning a Super Bowl unless you have 1) Tom Brady or 2) you're paying your QB less than 14% of your cap space in a given year. Read VikingOracle's post again... Key part is "expect to win a Super Bowl".
Super Bowl winners since 2010, with cap percentage:2020: Patrick Mahomes: 2.4% (Rookie)2019: Tom Brady: 12.4%2018: Nick Foles: 1.0% — Carson Wentz 3.6% (Rookie)2017: Tom Brady: 8.9%2016: Peyton Manning: 12.2%2015: Tom Brady: 11.1%2014: Russell Wilson: 0.6% (Rookie)2013: Joe Flacco: 6.6% (Rookie)2012: Eli Manning: 11.7%2011: Aaron Rodgers: Uncapped season2010: Drew Brees: 8.7%
also, https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1/2/18164980/nfl-playoffs-quarterbacks-salary-cap-kirk-cousins-patrick-mahomes. "It’s overly simplistic to say that paying a quarterback a lot of money prohibits a team from being successful. New Orleans’s Drew Brees, Indianapolis’s Andrew Luck, and Seattle’s Russell Wilson each make over $20 million a year. We’re dealing with a small sample size, but what is clear from the 2018 season is that there are too many quarterbacks being paid like superstars. And it’s very bad for team-building if your highly paid quarterback doesn’t play like a superstar."
And https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/do-massive-quarterback-contracts-limit-teams-in-the-long-run. "The one thing that does remain consistent is that there seems to be a max amount of salary cap space a quarterback can take up in the last nine years, and that’s 15%. Only Aaron Rodgers in 2019 passed 15% and that was just barely. How many times do quarterback contracts pass this 15% threshold, exactly?"
These are stats crafted to support a narrative, not a narrative derived from data.
My point is that the cap is so flexible...it's flexible in 53 dimensions. You can move money around, you can restructure, you can convert salary to bonus, dozens of different things. Some say the cap is a myth. I don't go that far, but it's not far off.
Look at the Chiefs. Paid Mahomes $477M. Didn't keep them from also signing Chris Jones to a ridiculous contract. Frank Clark gets over $100M. On top of that they just brought in Joe Thuney, Austin Blythe, Orlando Brown Jr. Where's the sacrifice? Did Mahomes restructure? No, he didn't. That's another myth. Chiefs simply converted salary to bonus, which goes to my point: there are a hundred different ways to make it work. What about the Packers? They don't make sacrifices at all because they don't sign free agents.
What about us? This team has Dalvin Cook, Danielle Hunter, Eric Kendricks, Anthony Barr, Adam Thielen, Justin Jefferson...that's helluva a lot of highly paid talent on one team. And it recently added Michael Pierce, Dalvin Tomlinson, Patrick Peterson. Where's the sacrifice? This is a roster fully capable of winning a Super Bowl. Who would you have signed this offseason that we didn't because Kirk and his fat contract?
MB: I am sorry that the stats got in the way of your narrative. I hate to throw more stats and facts at your narrative but lets start with Mahomes contract, this year his contract only counts as 7.5 million. https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-contract-restructuring-breakdown. As Sports Illustrated points out:
Quote:With the contract in motion, the Chiefs now have the luxury of having Mahomes, with the math laid out here, under contract for well-below his market value for at least six more years. As the salary cap soars, the Chiefs will continue to pay Mahomes below his market rate as quarterbacks like Josh Allen get paid on short-term deals that stretch their team's salary caps to the limit. Mahomes' contract might never truly test the Chiefs' cap if the Chiefs meet with Mahomes in 2027 and rework his deal.
I agree that teams can manipulate cap space but ultimately the bill comes due. So it is all about the window of opportunity cap gymnastics can create. Mahomes contract gives the Chiefs an extended window; Cousins contract gives the Vikings no window.
It also goes back to my basic premise, you can't pay a top 15 quarterback like a top 5 quarterback and expect to compete with teams with a top 5 QB being paid like a top 15 QB. Or, to be more specific, Cousins needs a better supporting cast than Mahomes, yet the Chiefs have an extra 23m to spend on a supporting cast. So, which team has a better chance at winning the Super Bowl this year?
Quote: @"VikingOracle" said:
I agree that teams can manipulate cap space but ultimately the bill comes due. So it is all about the window of opportunity cap gymnastics can create. Mahomes contract gives the Chiefs an extended window; Cousins contract gives the Vikings no window.
Only because they haven't done anything with it. Vikings could've easily converted Cousins' salary to bonus and drew several million out just like the Chiefs did. Vikings chose not to, but that opportunity is there and will be again next season, either through restructure, conversion or extension.
My basic point is that these big QB contracts aren't as limiting as fans think they are. And the Vikings have plenty enough talent in and around Cousins to win a Super Bowl if they improve their protection and stay healthy.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"VikingOracle" said:
I agree that teams can manipulate cap space but ultimately the bill comes due. So it is all about the window of opportunity cap gymnastics can create. Mahomes contract gives the Chiefs an extended window; Cousins contract gives the Vikings no window.
Only because they haven't done anything with it. Vikings could've easily converted Cousins' salary to bonus and drew several million out just like the Chiefs did. Vikings chose not to, but that opportunity is there and will be again next season, either through restructure, conversion or extension.
My basic point is that these big QB contracts aren't as limiting as fans think they are. And the Vikings have plenty enough talent in and around Cousins to win a Super Bowl if they improve their protection and stay healthy.
Next year ('22) as I understand it, is the last year of Cousin's current contract. So, if you converted 20 million of his '21 contract to a roster bonus, that would free up 10m (10m of the signing bonus would be allocated to '21 and 10m to '22). It would effectively make his '22 cap hit be 55m guaranteed. Now, you could extend his deal, but Cousins has never given a discount to any team. His contracts always have player-friendly guarantees, etc. So, yes, can extend Cousins next year, but he has the leverage (a 45m cap hit in '22 does that). Also, do you think a 35 year old Cousins at a huge contract is a great position to be in?
Wow, this has actual convinced me that the Vikes need to draft a QB this year.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"VikingOracle" said:
I agree that teams can manipulate cap space but ultimately the bill comes due. So it is all about the window of opportunity cap gymnastics can create. Mahomes contract gives the Chiefs an extended window; Cousins contract gives the Vikings no window.
Only because they haven't done anything with it. Vikings could've easily converted Cousins' salary to bonus and drew several million out just like the Chiefs did. Vikings chose not to, but that opportunity is there and will be again next season, either through restructure, conversion or extension.
My basic point is that these big QB contracts aren't as limiting as fans think they are. And the Vikings have plenty enough talent in and around Cousins to win a Super Bowl if they improve their protection and stay healthy.
Maroon: I thought you might like to listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq1Fn91LaG4
I don't know why the link is not working. Another try:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq1Fn91LaG4
[still not showing up, so go to Youtube, search Purple Daily and play the Do Minnesota Vikings even care about their offensive line?]
Quote: @"VikingOracle" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"VikingOracle" said:
I agree that teams can manipulate cap space but ultimately the bill comes due. So it is all about the window of opportunity cap gymnastics can create. Mahomes contract gives the Chiefs an extended window; Cousins contract gives the Vikings no window.
Only because they haven't done anything with it. Vikings could've easily converted Cousins' salary to bonus and drew several million out just like the Chiefs did. Vikings chose not to, but that opportunity is there and will be again next season, either through restructure, conversion or extension.
My basic point is that these big QB contracts aren't as limiting as fans think they are. And the Vikings have plenty enough talent in and around Cousins to win a Super Bowl if they improve their protection and stay healthy.
Maroon: I thought you might like to listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq1Fn91LaG4
Oh my, you didn't just link Mackey and Judd, did you? I put their podcast on at the gym a few times and swore I would never listen to them again. I swear they are the biggest idiots in all of purple media. And they only get stupider when Courtney Cronin joins them. Wondering who they were and what they were about I looked into their backgrounds. One is a pro wrestling guy. That should tell you all you need to know. So I'm not sure what they're saying here, but I doubt I would be enlightened. :-)
Quote: @"VikingOracle" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"VikingOracle" said:
I agree that teams can manipulate cap space but ultimately the bill comes due. So it is all about the window of opportunity cap gymnastics can create. Mahomes contract gives the Chiefs an extended window; Cousins contract gives the Vikings no window.
Only because they haven't done anything with it. Vikings could've easily converted Cousins' salary to bonus and drew several million out just like the Chiefs did. Vikings chose not to, but that opportunity is there and will be again next season, either through restructure, conversion or extension.
My basic point is that these big QB contracts aren't as limiting as fans think they are. And the Vikings have plenty enough talent in and around Cousins to win a Super Bowl if they improve their protection and stay healthy.
Next year ('22) as I understand it, is the last year of Cousin's current contract. So, if you converted 20 million of his '21 contract to a roster bonus, that would free up 10m (10m of the signing bonus would be allocated to '21 and 10m to '22). It would effectively make his '22 cap hit be 55m guaranteed. Now, you could extend his deal, but Cousins has never given a discount to any team. His contracts always have player-friendly guarantees, etc. So, yes, can extend Cousins next year, but he has the leverage (a 45m cap hit in '22 does that). Also, do you think a 35 year old Cousins at a huge contract is a great position to be in?
Depends a lot on what happens in 21. If Cousins has the year I think he'll have, then I suspect the Vikings will extend his contract another two or three seasons, potentially dropping his '22 hit significantly. But we'll see. At some point, the Vikings will want to start shortening these deals and offering less guaranteed money, but we're nowhere near that. He's only, what, 32? What happens with Hunter and the salary cap in future years will also have a lot to say about that.
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