Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ RS Express said:
Anyone who wants Austin Jackson at #22 needs to watch/rewatch the Holiday Bowl where AJ Epanesa (lousy 40 time and all) kicked his ass all game long. There won't be runs at OT, WR, and CB all by pick 22, so take the highest ranking player left at any of those 3 positions at 22. It won't be Jackson.
Slightly surprised at not even a late-round flier on a developmental QB. I know Kirk's been durable, but with pile of #2 Mannion at #2 if Kirk so much as turns an ankle we're 0-until he's back.
Rewatch that game. Did Epenesa beat him from time to time? Yes. But it is not the bloodbath the media made it out to be. Jackson shut him down for long stretches. Anae also ate his lunch. Got around him for one sack and had at least four or five other quality pressures that would have resulted in a sack if the QB didn't get rid of it.
Quote: @TBro said:
Here is my question. If Zimmer and Spielman are on a short leash, and they need to have a strong showing in 2020 to retain their jobs, how many 2-3 year development guys are they willing to gamble their futures on?They've gone all in on Cousins and need to win now while they have him. If we miss the playoffs this year, Zimmer could be shown the door. They need to plug holes with starters and major contributors for this season. I don't think they have the luxury to draft projects with big upside vs. proven production at the college level.
If they can land Williams in a trade without giving up any picks for this year, I'd feel a lot more comfortable filling the rest of our needs through the draft and the leftover Free Agents available.
That's crazy. No team has ever had 4+ Rookies Start and play well their first year. Everson wasn't a Starter as a Rookie. Neither was Rhodes. You're telling me that Rick is going to find Starters, Day 1 Starters, from picks in the 2nd and 3rd Round? Kids farther long than O'Neill, Kendricks, Hunter, Waynes, Diggs and so many more.
Spielman landing 2 Starters, not Day 1 Starters, but guys who become Starters, is a great Draft. Fans thinking he's somehow going to walk away with Day 1 Starters at 3T, LG, CB and WR are simply ignoring history.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ TBro said:
Here is my question. If Zimmer and Spielman are on a short leash, and they need to have a strong showing in 2020 to retain their jobs, how many 2-3 year development guys are they willing to gamble their futures on?They've gone all in on Cousins and need to win now while they have him. If we miss the playoffs this year, Zimmer could be shown the door. They need to plug holes with starters and major contributors for this season. I don't think they have the luxury to draft projects with big upside vs. proven production at the college level.
If they can land Williams in a trade without giving up any picks for this year, I'd feel a lot more comfortable filling the rest of our needs through the draft and the leftover Free Agents available.
That's crazy. No team has ever had 4+ Rookies Start and play well their first year. Everson wasn't a Starter as a Rookie. Neither was Rhodes. You're telling me that Rick is going to find Starters, Day 1 Starters, from picks in the 2nd and 3rd Round? Kids farther long than O'Neill, Kendricks, Hunter, Waynes, Diggs and so many more.
Spielman landing 2 Starters, not Day 1 Starters, but guys who become Starters, is a great Draft. Fans thinking he's somehow going to walk away with Day 1 Starters at 3T, LG, CB and WR are simply ignoring history.
Whether you like it or not, Jefferson and Gladney are both starting Day 1. What choice do we have? You could realistically get 1-2 more starters on day 2 of the draft if you package your picks and move up in the early 2nd. Winfield Jr or McKinney would allow you to move Harris and free up cap space. Blacklock, Gallimore, Madubuike are all better 3T's than what we have now and I'm sure we can find a replacent for Elflien. Grabbing a starting Left Tackle in Jones or Cleveland so you can move Reiff inside is also a possibility. I agree that it's not ideal, but that is the position we put ourselves in this offseason.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ TBro said:
Here is my question. If Zimmer and Spielman are on a short leash, and they need to have a strong showing in 2020 to retain their jobs, how many 2-3 year development guys are they willing to gamble their futures on?They've gone all in on Cousins and need to win now while they have him. If we miss the playoffs this year, Zimmer could be shown the door. They need to plug holes with starters and major contributors for this season. I don't think they have the luxury to draft projects with big upside vs. proven production at the college level.
If they can land Williams in a trade without giving up any picks for this year, I'd feel a lot more comfortable filling the rest of our needs through the draft and the leftover Free Agents available.
That's crazy. No team has ever had 4+ Rookies Start and play well their first year. Everson wasn't a Starter as a Rookie. Neither was Rhodes. You're telling me that Rick is going to find Starters, Day 1 Starters, from picks in the 2nd and 3rd Round? Kids farther long than O'Neill, Kendricks, Hunter, Waynes, Diggs and so many more.
Spielman landing 2 Starters, not Day 1 Starters, but guys who become Starters, is a great Draft. Fans thinking he's somehow going to walk away with Day 1 Starters at 3T, LG, CB and WR are simply ignoring history.
Whether you like it or not, Jefferson and Gladney are both starting Day 1. What choice do we have? You could realistically get 1-2 more starters on day 2 of the draft if you package your picks and move up in the early 2nd. Winfield Jr or McKinney would allow you to move Harris and free up cap space. Blacklock, Gallimore, Madubuike are all better 3T's than what we have now and I'm sure we can find a replacent for Elflien. Grabbing a starting Left Tackle in Jones or Cleveland so you can move Reiff inside is also a possibility. I agree that it's not ideal, but that is the position we put ourselves in this offseason.
Well, it's probably a disappointment if they are not at least significant contributors early. If Jefferson is healthy, he ought to be at least WR3 in the first game. Gladney should be 4th CB, if not one of the 3 starting CBs, again if healthy.
I like Gladney well enough, but he definitely seems like a "need" pick. Put another way, I don't think he was the BPA over Epenesa or Josh Jones, possibly others. It's a matter of judgment and I am sure no one with the Vikings would say otherwise, but I don't think Gladney would have been the pick if they were just looking for a player to develop over time without the need to play very soon.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
I like Gladney well enough, but he definitely seems like a "need" pick. Put another way, I don't think he was the BPA over Epenesa or Josh Jones, possibly others. It's a matter of judgment and I am sure no one with the Vikings would say otherwise, but I don't think Gladney would have been the pick if they were just looking for a player to develop over time without the need to play very soon.
This. When you've lost your top 3 CB's that position is going to get priority over a DE even if the DE is the slightly better player. If we'd gotten Epanesa at 31 I'd have a new personal vertical jump record and a hole in my ceiling.
But then who would have been left at CB by 58? Even with a trade up we'd likely see several CB's go by before somebody fell close enough to move for, and then they'd really be a reach. Having been on the wrong side of OL and WR runs in previous drafts, I don't mind being a team that helps start one on CB.
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