Regarding UBI. I don't think UBI is an important long term strategy towards a healthy economy. At best, it's a band-aid that's trying to cover up poor laws that are benefiting the rich at the expense of the poor. In our fractional reserve economy, where there's no constant value in money, what's important is your income and wealth as a percentage of the total income and wealth within the economy as a whole. Currently we keep adding money to the system, and it keeps getting siphoned off by the select few, so our pool is staying relatively the same, while the sub 1% are taking all the new money. What UBI will do is increase competition for housing and drive up home prices. It will almost directly disappear into mortgage prices.
I don't like a dynamic where all the laws are creating a select few rich people, who then control the government and laws that are created to benefit themselves, and then they just dole out money to us at whatever their whim is. I think it's fun to say tax the rich, they'll pay for it, but when has the rich ever really paid for it? They make the laws. They have loopholes we don't. It will be paid by debt, which is future generations. The dynamic will be, how much money do the rich think we deserve, which will be just enough to barely scrape by? That's already the dynamic, but we need to focus on solving the fundamental problems.
I think UBI also will have the effect of pulling people out of the economy. If UBI is ever high enough where it gets close to providing a reasonable standard of living, some percentage of people are going to choose to not go to work, because working sucks and if you're able to live off free money than why bother? You're going to end up with an increasingly larger divide of people who work and people who don't, and it will breed resentment. I just don't think you can have a good system if the labor is not equitably shared amongst all of us.
Quote: @"medaille" said:
Regarding UBI. I don't think UBI is an important long term strategy towards a healthy economy. At best, it's a band-aid that's trying to cover up poor laws that are benefiting the rich at the expense of the poor. In our fractional reserve economy, where there's no constant value in money, what's important is your income and wealth as a percentage of the total income and wealth within the economy as a whole. Currently we keep adding money to the system, and it keeps getting siphoned off by the select few, so our pool is staying relatively the same, while the sub 1% are taking all the new money. What UBI will do is increase competition for housing and drive up home prices. It will almost directly disappear into mortgage prices.
I don't like a dynamic where all the laws are creating a select few rich people, who then control the government and laws that are created to benefit themselves, and then they just dole out money to us at whatever their whim is. I think it's fun to say tax the rich, they'll pay for it, but when has the rich ever really paid for it? They make the laws. They have loopholes we don't. It will be paid by debt, which is future generations. The dynamic will be, how much money do the rich think we deserve, which will be just enough to barely scrape by? That's already the dynamic, but we need to focus on solving the fundamental problems.
I think UBI also will have the effect of pulling people out of the economy. If UBI is ever high enough where it gets close to providing a reasonable standard of living, some percentage of people are going to choose to not go to work, because working sucks and if you're able to live off free money than why bother? You're going to end up with an increasingly larger divide of people who work and people who don't, and it will breed resentment. I just don't think you can have a good system if the labor is not equitably shared amongst all of us.
UBI is not a job replacement
it is to keep Americans from hitting zero. which without it, they will. when they do, we all pay more in the long run
what do you tell the people who have to sacrifice time with their children to work a second or third job? what do you tell people who’s lives are going to be automated away?
this isnt a policy created by the rich, its a policy of and for the people. If the rich are deciding what we can get, we already have a problem that UBI cant fix
Only violence will
the article is flawed. here is a fine example
“ Imagine living in a society where children still go hungry, and where those with severe health conditions are deprived of adequate care”
we already have this issue regardless of the discussion around UBI. Blaming current problems on possible future solutions is flawed
“ we should be adopting measures to encourage the creation of “middle-class” jobs with good pay, while strengthening our ailing social safety net. ”
UBI is not a failed federal jobs guarantee, its not a socialist program. it promotes US small business, allows people to acquire more training, enhance their skills, start a business, go for the american dream. UBI empowers people for strive/bargain for higher wages where his EITC empowers low wage offers by employers, again limiting personal earning potential.
there is no consideration for the care workers in households. their work has value. taking care of america’s future has value. investing in americas future is better at home than having someone have to go to work to pay for someone else (most likely not qualified or the state) to take of their kids.
this program is just as much conservative as it is liberal
Milton Friedman, Hank Paulson, Charles Murray, Elon Musk, Nicholas Mankiw all UBI proponents
put the money into the hands of americans, not corporations
This definitely is one of those issues that has been played to create the polarization in the country, saving on social programs vs the collateral costs. Usually comes down to the evil poor have made bad decisions and I don't want to subsidize that. But incentivize someone to have more wealth and they will surely share that with me if I am good.
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"medaille" said:
Regarding UBI. I don't think UBI is an important long term strategy towards a healthy economy. At best, it's a band-aid that's trying to cover up poor laws that are benefiting the rich at the expense of the poor. In our fractional reserve economy, where there's no constant value in money, what's important is your income and wealth as a percentage of the total income and wealth within the economy as a whole. Currently we keep adding money to the system, and it keeps getting siphoned off by the select few, so our pool is staying relatively the same, while the sub 1% are taking all the new money. What UBI will do is increase competition for housing and drive up home prices. It will almost directly disappear into mortgage prices.
I don't like a dynamic where all the laws are creating a select few rich people, who then control the government and laws that are created to benefit themselves, and then they just dole out money to us at whatever their whim is. I think it's fun to say tax the rich, they'll pay for it, but when has the rich ever really paid for it? They make the laws. They have loopholes we don't. It will be paid by debt, which is future generations. The dynamic will be, how much money do the rich think we deserve, which will be just enough to barely scrape by? That's already the dynamic, but we need to focus on solving the fundamental problems.
I think UBI also will have the effect of pulling people out of the economy. If UBI is ever high enough where it gets close to providing a reasonable standard of living, some percentage of people are going to choose to not go to work, because working sucks and if you're able to live off free money than why bother? You're going to end up with an increasingly larger divide of people who work and people who don't, and it will breed resentment. I just don't think you can have a good system if the labor is not equitably shared amongst all of us.
UBI is not a job replacement
it is to keep Americans from hitting zero. which without it, they will. when they do, we all pay more in the long run
what do you tell the people who have to sacrifice time with their children to work a second or third job? what do you tell people who’s lives are going to be automated away?
this isnt a policy created by the rich, its a policy of and for the people. If the rich are deciding what we can get, we already have a problem that UBI cant fix
Only violence will
Violence doesn't solve anything. That's childlike thinking. The problem is fundamentally, most people participate in systems that don't serve them. Being violent will never create a good system. Being violent can free you from bad systems, but if you can't build a good system, you are going to end up exactly where you already are because that's all you know, but you've destroyed stuff in the process.
UBI is job replacement. If UBI is not job replacement, what good is it for someone who's job was automated away? Now they can pay 20% of their bills but are still getting evicted? For your example person who's working 2-3 jobs, isn't the goal to have it replace job#3 and maybe job#2?
How do you think it will help people?
Quote: @"medaille" said:
@"Skodin" said:
@"medaille" said:
Regarding UBI. I don't think UBI is an important long term strategy towards a healthy economy. At best, it's a band-aid that's trying to cover up poor laws that are benefiting the rich at the expense of the poor. In our fractional reserve economy, where there's no constant value in money, what's important is your income and wealth as a percentage of the total income and wealth within the economy as a whole. Currently we keep adding money to the system, and it keeps getting siphoned off by the select few, so our pool is staying relatively the same, while the sub 1% are taking all the new money. What UBI will do is increase competition for housing and drive up home prices. It will almost directly disappear into mortgage prices.
I don't like a dynamic where all the laws are creating a select few rich people, who then control the government and laws that are created to benefit themselves, and then they just dole out money to us at whatever their whim is. I think it's fun to say tax the rich, they'll pay for it, but when has the rich ever really paid for it? They make the laws. They have loopholes we don't. It will be paid by debt, which is future generations. The dynamic will be, how much money do the rich think we deserve, which will be just enough to barely scrape by? That's already the dynamic, but we need to focus on solving the fundamental problems.
I think UBI also will have the effect of pulling people out of the economy. If UBI is ever high enough where it gets close to providing a reasonable standard of living, some percentage of people are going to choose to not go to work, because working sucks and if you're able to live off free money than why bother? You're going to end up with an increasingly larger divide of people who work and people who don't, and it will breed resentment. I just don't think you can have a good system if the labor is not equitably shared amongst all of us.
UBI is not a job replacement
it is to keep Americans from hitting zero. which without it, they will. when they do, we all pay more in the long run
what do you tell the people who have to sacrifice time with their children to work a second or third job? what do you tell people who’s lives are going to be automated away?
this isnt a policy created by the rich, its a policy of and for the people. If the rich are deciding what we can get, we already have a problem that UBI cant fix
Only violence will
Violence doesn't solve anything. That's childlike thinking. The problem is fundamentally, most people participate in systems that don't serve them. Being violent will never create a good system. Being violent can free you from bad systems, but if you can't build a good system, you are going to end up exactly where you already are because that's all you know, but you've destroyed stuff in the process.
UBI is job replacement. If UBI is not job replacement, what good is it for someone who's job was automated away? Now they can pay 20% of their bills but are still getting evicted? For your example person who's working 2-3 jobs, isn't the goal to have it replace job#3 and maybe job#2?
How do you think it will help people?
holy cow man are you advocating that people must slave at 2-3 jobs to make it in the richest country in the history of man? seriously?
UBI doesn’t make everyone a welfare recipiant. if you already are on welfare you don’t get $1,000 more, you get up to 1k or nothing.
lets say i am making $3k a month, and want to start my own business, after the COL how i can do that only clearing $500 a month? $1500 a month is an expotnetially faster route. let alone i need that money for a medical emergency or car repair just to keep that job.
people live in a super precarious spot. many do, and when they fall, we all lose. this is a net for those who need it. rather someone have health care and take preventative measures by using that $1,000 than putting it off for a 5,6 figure bill down the road. it takes the pressure of the necks of people down, and gives
mobility to the middle class. you know the lions share of our collective population. thats a win for america period.
where do you want the money? in the hands of the tech companies, corporations, or you and your neighbor?
corps cant go a month with slow business before they go under, what do they do with their money? they burn it in buy backs and increased valuations. fuck them
tech companies are the most powerful groups on the planet. wake the fuck up. they have all the money. all the infrastructure and all the data. and they got it from us for FREE!!!! and they dont pay fucking anything to us in taxes.
so the money is better with you (trust me im not a huge advocate for humans) but its better with you because you can use it. use it in your towns. in your friends business. for your own needs. you deserve it and this system can fairly give it to yiu
Quote: @"Skodin" said:
@"medaille" said:
...
holy cow man are you advocating that people must slave at 2-3 jobs to make it in the richest country in the history of man? seriously?
UBI doesn’t make everyone a welfare recipiant. if you already are on welfare you don’t get $1,000 more, you get up to 1k or nothing.
lets say i am making $3k a month, and want to start my own business, after the COL how i can do that only clearing $500 a month? $1500 a month is an expotnetially faster route. let alone i need that money for a medical emergency or car repair just to keep that job.
people live in a super precarious spot. many do, and when they fall, we all lose. this is a net for those who need it. rather someone have health care and take preventative measures by using that $1,000 than putting it off for a 5,6 figure bill down the road. it takes the pressure of the necks of people down, and gives
mobility to the middle class. you know the lions share of our collective population. thats a win for america period.
where do you want the money? in the hands of the tech companies, corporations, or you and your neighbor?
corps cant go a month with slow business before they go under, what do they do with their money? they burn it in buy backs and increased valuations. fuck them
tech companies are the most powerful groups on the planet. wake the fuck up. they have all the money. all the infrastructure and all the data. and they got it from us for FREE!!!! and they dont pay fucking anything to us in taxes.
so the money is better with you (trust me im not a huge advocate for humans) but its better with you because you can use it. use it in your towns. in your friends business. for your own needs. you deserve it and this system can fairly give it to yiu
What that I said suggests that I was "advocating that people must slave at 2-3 jobs ... " We both want the same thing. I'm just saying that UBI won't work. If you give everyone money, the prices of goods or housing will go up, so the cost of living will rise to take away all the money you gave people, so they're in the exact same spot as they are now, but now their dependent on the government check to survive.
You have to fix the root cause issues of the problems, and not try to bandaid over it.
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