OT: I can't even imagine.....

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

[Guest]

@pumpf said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

I can't argue that, pumpf. Its certainly part of the reason without a doubt. Entitlement and outrage are at an all-time high. 

[Guest]

I'm not so sure there isn't some culpability in the case of the cruise line here...I've seen the pix of that wall of windows, frankly I'm surprised tragedy didn't strike well before this. 

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@pumpf said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

I can't argue that, pumpf. Its certainly part of the reason without a doubt. Entitlement and outrage are at an all-time high. 

and lets not forget the settlements and jury mandated payouts for these ridiculous claims.    it all went down hill when that lady got a shit load of money for spilling hot coffee on herself from mcdonalds. 

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:
I'm not so sure there isn't some culpability in the case of the cruise line here...I've seen the pix of that wall of windows, frankly I'm surprised tragedy didn't strike well before this. 

these windows?   I dont see the culpability any greater in these windows than I see in any railing at any sports venue, or any other place with a high viewing point.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@pumpf said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

I can't argue that, pumpf. Its certainly part of the reason without a doubt. Entitlement and outrage are at an all-time high. 

and lets not forget the settlements and jury mandated payouts for these ridiculous claims.    it all went down hill when that lady got a shit load of money for spilling hot coffee on herself from mcdonalds. 

That McDonalds story is actually incredibly interesting. I understand what you are saying, but in this particular instance you should research it and read what actually happened. I think you'd be surprised and change your viewpoint. I either read an in-depth article about it or saw a documentary some years ago on it. It was very enlightening.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@pumpf said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

I can't argue that, pumpf. Its certainly part of the reason without a doubt. Entitlement and outrage are at an all-time high. 

and lets not forget the settlements and jury mandated payouts for these ridiculous claims.    it all went down hill when that lady got a shit load of money for spilling hot coffee on herself from mcdonalds. 

That McDonalds story is actually incredibly interesting. I understand what you are saying, but in this particular instance you should research it and read what actually happened. I think you'd be surprised and change your viewpoint. I either read an in-depth article about it or saw a documentary some years ago on it. It was very enlightening.

IIRC I saw and read a documentary on it some years ago, and still came away with that she was a much at fault as mcdonalds.    IIRC the fact that she was sitting in a leather bucket seat which held the hot liquid against her skin made the situation worse,  but there was a big issue with the temp which mcdonalds claims was necessary to get the flavor they wanted for their coffee.   lots of lawyer tricks,  but in the end,  if I order a hot liquid,  I am expecting a hot liquid and should handle it accordingly.  I dont drink the shit,  but when I order a hot chocolate the first thing I do when they hand it to me is to check the cover.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@pumpf said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

I can't argue that, pumpf. Its certainly part of the reason without a doubt. Entitlement and outrage are at an all-time high. 

and lets not forget the settlements and jury mandated payouts for these ridiculous claims.    it all went down hill when that lady got a shit load of money for spilling hot coffee on herself from mcdonalds. 

That McDonalds story is actually incredibly interesting. I understand what you are saying, but in this particular instance you should research it and read what actually happened. I think you'd be surprised and change your viewpoint. I either read an in-depth article about it or saw a documentary some years ago on it. It was very enlightening.

IIRC I saw and read a documentary on it some years ago, and still came away with that she was a much at fault as mcdonalds.    IIRC the fact that she was sitting in a leather bucket seat which held the hot liquid against her skin made the situation worse,  but there was a big issue with the temp which mcdonalds claims was necessary to get the flavor they wanted for their coffee.   lots of lawyer tricks,  but in the end,  if I order a hot liquid,  I am expecting a hot liquid and should handle it accordingly.  I dont drink the shit,  but when I order a hot chocolate the first thing I do when they hand it to me is to check the cover.

 
https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Not sure how you cannot understand after reading this.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@pumpf said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
The parents of a toddler who died after falling from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship blame the company

But Kimberly Wiegand says she blames the cruise company and wants them held accountable in court, adding "this cannot happen to another family."
"There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer," she said this week. "I never want another mother to have to experience this or to see what I had to see."
No matter the reason, she said those windows should not have been open. 
"Come up with some other mechanism to make guests comfortable, rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life."
In a statement, Royal Caribbean Cruises said they were "deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family."
"We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions," the statement said. 




https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/us/parents-toddler-cruise-ship/index.html

somebody better get the shampoo bottles out of this ladies house ASAP!

Exactly. Never should have put the baby up by that window regardless. There's just no personal responsibility anymore.

I agree; but we may disagree on the cause.  I believe the cause has been removing consequences for bad behavior.  A generation ago they called it "judging" others; now they call it "shaming" them.  SOME people don't want to accept any responsibility for the consequences that their choices have "earned" them.  Strangely, though, everyone (it seems) wants OTHER people held accountable for their actions- when those actions negatively impact "me".  Rather than having a standard set of rules for everyone to (try to) live by, now SOME people only want rules to apply to others.  It is the result of our culture's acceptance of a Post-Modern worldview (which is inherently self-centered).

I can't argue that, pumpf. Its certainly part of the reason without a doubt. Entitlement and outrage are at an all-time high. 

and lets not forget the settlements and jury mandated payouts for these ridiculous claims.    it all went down hill when that lady got a shit load of money for spilling hot coffee on herself from mcdonalds. 

That McDonalds story is actually incredibly interesting. I understand what you are saying, but in this particular instance you should research it and read what actually happened. I think you'd be surprised and change your viewpoint. I either read an in-depth article about it or saw a documentary some years ago on it. It was very enlightening.

IIRC I saw and read a documentary on it some years ago, and still came away with that she was a much at fault as mcdonalds.    IIRC the fact that she was sitting in a leather bucket seat which held the hot liquid against her skin made the situation worse,  but there was a big issue with the temp which mcdonalds claims was necessary to get the flavor they wanted for their coffee.   lots of lawyer tricks,  but in the end,  if I order a hot liquid,  I am expecting a hot liquid and should handle it accordingly.  I dont drink the shit,  but when I order a hot chocolate the first thing I do when they hand it to me is to check the cover.

 
https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Not sure how you cannot understand after reading this.

she was holding the coffee between her knees in a seated position and spilled it on herself.  maybe it was hotter than required,  but if it was hot coffee.   I dont completely absolve mcdonalds from liability,  but at the same time she caused the problem.   hot liquids burn and should be handled with caution,  I dont see a lot of caution taken on her part by holding a foam cup, full of steaming hot liquid, between her knees in a car.   it was unfortunate,  but I still dont agree with the award.